Manual vs Automatic

Geoff.D said:
Also in my father's books in CT. there are complete Austin and Vauxhall workshop manuals (Mechanics manuals, not the typical ones sold to enthusiasts) where torque converters are fully described in great detail.
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Ok, you are obviously taking the piss now. You are 70 odd; and now your fathers books describe torque converters?
 
Now that I'm thinking about it, did they even bring out the f30 M3 competition with a manual gearbox? I recall BMW dropping the manual not too long after M3 introduction so finding a manual f30 M3 for sale must be difficult, that thing must be as scarce as hens teeth, if it even exists.
 
Splinter said:
Ok, you are obviously taking the piss now. You are 70 odd; and now your fathers books describe torque converters?
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My sister checked for me. The one is a GM workshop manual and the other is a Leyland workshop manual. Both have sections describing the automatic transmissions systems inna range of cars in SA at the time .
Bently, Daimler, Chrysler, Buick, Jaguar, etc. In both is a description of a torque converter as that was the heart of an automatic.
If you still dont want to accept that then do some research and start with wiki into when the torque converter was first used in an automobile transmission.
You might be rather startled.
 
Craig said:
Now that I'm thinking about it, did they even bring out the f30 M3 competition with a manual gearbox? I recall BMW dropping the manual not too long after M3 introduction so finding a manual f30 M3 for sale must be difficult, that thing must be as scarce as hens teeth, if it even exists.
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Also, finding a dealership, or even a province that have two M3s (or was it "M classes") ready for back to back test drives. Also, why take some old 70 year old man who drives 700 000 km + cars (lol this varies wildly) and a double cab with you to test drive an M3? Not to be ageist or anything, but wtf does that person have to offer? He doesn't even know what it is called. Can they even get in such a car?
 
Craig said:
Now that I'm thinking about it, did they even bring out the f30 M3 competition with a manual gearbox? I recall BMW dropping the manual not too long after M3 introduction so finding a manual f30 M3 for sale must be difficult, that thing must be as scarce as hens teeth, if it even exists.
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just one site available today, www.cars.co.za
You can find plenty of manual BMWs for sale second hand.
So don't be a wise arse, just do your homework.

BTW for the lunatic fringe on this thread, would you consider this one a good deal?

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Would this be a fair comparison to the manual posted above, assuming one would be interested in evaluating a manual versus an automatic BMW?
 
SauRoNZA said:
I believe lower powered (rather lower torque) cars can’t actually use a torque converter efficiently because of the significant losses when using it.

It’s why CVT gearboxes became popular as they don’t suffer the same problem and are more equally matched to lower torque engines.

DCT of course is no more of a problem than any manual to mate to an engine, but is a more expensive solution.
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Very interesting post,smaller lower powered cars do actually feel better with a manual box and auto's in those feel sluggish and unresponsive while on the BMW diesels or any diesel for that matter auto is preferable over Manual any day.

I had a manual 320d that I changed to an auto 320d just because the auto drives so much better in these particular cars but yes they have 350nm of torque.I remember driving a friends auto petrol corrolla on the other hand and it was not very enjoyable,felt sluggish.I've always thought it was due to ZF making great auto boxes as the main difference compared to what Toyota uses.


So is it the box or just like you say down to amount of torque available.I won't be surprised to find that it's a bit of both:unsure:
 
falcon786 said:
Very interesting post,smaller lower powered cars do actually feel better with a manual box and auto's in those feel sluggish and unresponsive while on the BMW diesels or any diesel for that matter auto is preferable over Manual any day.

I had a manual 320d that I changed to an auto 320d just because the auto drives so much better in these particular cars but yes they have 350nm of torque.I remember driving a friends auto petrol corrolla on the other hand and it was not very enjoyable,felt sluggish.I've always thought it was due to ZF making great auto boxes as the main difference compared to what Toyota uses.


So is it the box or just like you say down to amount of torque available.I won't be surprised to find that it's a bit of both:unsure:
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Yes in that particular comparison it would be a bit of both.

But you’ll also find that the higher torque BMW is likely as light on fuel as the manual equivalent where the smaller engined petrol car with a torque converter automatic is heavier than its manual counterpart due to losses in supporting the gearbox.

Of course gear ratios and such also different which messes it up as well.

It’s a fine balance at the end of the day but ZF has made torque converters cool again in the modern age of DCT.
 
I test drove a Astra Sedan with new clutch a while back, very slick shifting 6 speed manual. If I ever have to replace the 407 then it'll be one of those. So rewarding to flick the gears with that peppy 1.4 turbo motor.
 
Geoff.D said:
just one site available today, www.cars.co.za
You can find plenty of manual BMWs for sale second hand.
So don't be a wise arse, just do your homework.

BTW for the lunatic fringe on this thread, would you consider this one a good deal?

View attachment 762088
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That's nice. But I was referring to the M3 competition that you said you test drove in manual, I wasn't sure if those exist.
 
Craig said:
That's nice. But I was referring to the M3 competition that you said you test drove in manual, I wasn't sure if those exist.
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Yeah they do... Not the biggest sellers in comparison to the much better dct/auto version.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Yeah they do... Not the biggest sellers in comparison to the much better dct/auto version.
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Thanks. I actually wasn't being sarcastic with my first post, I was really unsure if those were ever available.
 
Craig said:
Thanks. I actually wasn't being sarcastic with my first post, I was really unsure if those were ever available.
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The point is at any one time, it is possible to find just about any variation available in the second-hand market.
Hence, I just showed what was possible to find today as an example. The test drive took place a few months back and at that time the ones we found were as I stated.

Apologies if I appear to have overreacted, to all the criticism flying around.
 
Is It Easier To Get A Deal On A Car With A Manual Transmission?

jalopnik.com

Is It Easier To Get A Deal On A Car With A Manual Transmission? - Jalopnik

As Jalopnik’s resident car buying expert and professional car shopper, I get emails. Lots of emails. I’ve decided to pick a few questions and try to help out. This week we are discussing, deals on manual transmission models, a new car that has issues and thoughts on a cheap but fast BMW.
jalopnik.com jalopnik.com
 
6 Cheapest Automatic Cars in SA

Looking for a chilled drive on a shoestring? We list 6 of the most affordable automatic cars available in South Africa.

Sit back, relax and let the car do the work! Automatic cars have much to offer, especially if you live and travel within the confines of the city. Not only are automatic cars easier to drive but they also take the stress out of changing gears continuously, particularly if you crawl through traffic jams on a regular basis. Advances in transmission technology have also led to improvements in fuel efficiency, to the point where some automatic cars are actually more efficient than their manual siblings.

To make your life easier, we have created a list of 6 of the most affordable automatic cars currently on sale in South Africa, all of which are currently priced under R200k (January 2020). More than this, we will weigh in on which of these cars we think offers the best value for money.

Renault Kwid 1.0 Automatic - From R154 900

Suzuki Celerio 1.0 GL Automatic – From R173 900

Kia Picanto 1.0/1.2 Automatic – From R176 995

Datsun Go 1.2 Lux Auto - R184 200

Suzuki Swift 1.2 GL Automatic – R195 900

Hyundai Grand i10 1.0 Motion Automatic – from R196 900

www.cars.co.za

Cheapest Automatic Cars in South Africa for Under R200k (2022)

If you are looking for the cheapest automatic cars in South Africa for under 200k, this list is for you!
www.cars.co.za www.cars.co.za
 
/Cruizes @ 80, moves right foot forward 0.0055mm, car gears down 3 right up to the rev limiter until the valves appear on the bonnet, then gears back to 5th.

Automatic.
 
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