Manual vs Automatic

[ubercal]

If i was rich enough i would buy an automatic as a daily , but still keep my manual cars.For now i must live with manual daily driver.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I feel like this is incorrect though, its personal preference, as an enthusiast i would still choose a manual for daily driving over the convenience of an auto.
In my opinion it's mostly non enthusiasts that prefer an auto and since there are more non-enthusiasts than enthusiasts it creates the perception that autos are better.

Nah, notice I say as a daily driver...

I am still all for Manuals in certain use cases and I would have a manual fun car in a heartbeat... but as a daily driver for 45km commute each way, its auto or get bent.

I would personally say true enthusiasts who would have more than one car would actually default to a decent new automatic over a manual for their daily driver as well.

 

[SauRoNZA]

This is a useless point for both sides, like really, my car is better cause it's safer when i'm on my phone???

Oh I fully agree on that point.

Neither is safe.

It was simply an example of which would be worse.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Hopefully you are sitting there, very observant and scanning all the foot traffic around you and such, ready to flip into gear. A female friend of mine had that manual-in-neutral habit and when criminals struck, all that happened is that the engine rev'ed loudly because in the panic she did not take time to engage 1st gear and thus could not get away. I sit in first gear, clutch pressed in. I'd rather replace a clutch after a long time, than deal with crims.

Clutch pressed in all the way won’t add any wear.

It’s the slipping of clutch that is a problem.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I feel like this is incorrect though, its personal preference, as an enthusiast i would still choose a manual for daily driving over the convenience of an auto.
In my opinion it's mostly non enthusiasts that prefer an auto and since there are more non-enthusiasts than enthusiasts it creates the perception that autos are better.

I know many many enthusiasts...all with autos.

They’ve simply gotten over the false perception of added control and benefit manuals bring.

Of course I’m not referring to slushbox autos though, but properly sporty ones.

You aren’t any less or more of an enthusiast for choosing an auto.

At the end of the day most people can only have one car and that car needs to tick the boxes for the 90% of the driving not the 10%.

If I could have a true second weekend car I used to think it had to be a manual but my mind even there has changed ultimately to being a case for needing to drive both before I can choose.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I know many many enthusiasts...all with autos.

They’ve simply gotten over the false perception of added control and benefit manuals bring.

Of course I’m not referring to slushbox autos though, but properly sporty ones.

You aren’t any less or more of an enthusiast for choosing an auto.

There could also be a case made for the newer sporty autos and DSG's and whatnot being better than a manual.... they change faster etc... and also prevent you from going from 5th to 3rd/1st or whatever by mistake...

Though, Koenigsegg beat everyone with a 1 gear Regera..

 

[SauRoNZA]

There could also be a case made for the newer sporty autos and DSG's and whatnot being better than a manual.... they change faster etc... and also prevent you from going from 5th to 3rd/1st or whatever by mistake...

Not only are they faster but also lighter on fuel.

On properly powerful cars the manual really is just an unnecessary third pedal and a lot of fiddling compared to a GOOD sporty automatic box.

And if and when you really want you can still flip them to manual mode...but even having had that I never really used it outside of novelty.

At best I’d use it for a quick downshift to suddenly change pace.

Being automatic doesn’t remove from the sporty or enthusiast experience at all.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Not only are they faster but also lighter on fuel.

On properly powerful cars the manual really is just an unnecessary third pedal and a lot of fiddling compared to a GOOD sporty automatic box.

And if and when you really want you can still flip them to manual mode...but even having had that I never really used it outside of novelty.

At best I’d use it for a quick downshift to suddenly change pace.

Being automatic doesn’t remove from the sporty or enthusiast experience at all.

100%...

I've found the zf 8 on my 320D actually makes it a better sporty experience. The whole car feels like it hunkers down and tighens up when I put it into sport mode, and it fscks off like a stabbed rat in a way that I would struggle to match in a manual.

 

[SauRoNZA]

100%...

I've found the zf 8 on my 320D actually makes it a better sporty experience. The whole car feels like it hunkers down and tighens up when I put it into sport mode, and it fscks off like a stabbed rat in a way that I would struggle to match in a manual.

There’s a very good reason modern supercars and even just most sporty cars have dropped manuals entirely.

They just aren’t good enough.

 

[Zuner]

At the end of the day most people can only have one car and that car needs to tick the boxes for the 90% of the driving not the 10%.

This is where our definition of an enthusiast is different, i would easily choose the 10% (although that's very drastic, transmission wouldn't carry that much weight).

 

[ilikepi]

There’s a very good reason modern supercars and even just most sporty cars have dropped manuals entirely.

They just aren’t good enough.

I have to agree on this point and the sentiment of many others on this topic,

A machine, (especially in modern terms) is almost always going to be the faster changer, knowing when is the optimal time to change and when is economical depending on your driving style.

It may not feel as involved as what the manual's do, and I can empathise, definitely feel more involved in the driving of the car when I am the one driving the gearbox, but that is what tiptronic is for ;-)

 

[supersunbird]

I feel like this is incorrect though, its personal preference, as an enthusiast i would still choose a manual for daily driving over the convenience of an auto.
In my opinion it's mostly non enthusiasts that prefer an auto and since there are more non-enthusiasts than enthusiasts it creates the perception that autos are better.

Do you sit an hour or longer commuting in traffic, to do a mere 50km?

I don't, so I am fine with a manual, but when I did I hated having a manual.

 

[SauRoNZA]

This is where our definition of an enthusiast is different, i would easily choose the 10% (although that's very drastic, transmission wouldn't carry that much weight).

Varying degrees of enthusiast and also reality.

A proper enthusiast would have a dedicated track car with no amenities.

In the real world though you want four seats and CarPlay with an air con and other creatures comforts.

Your point of view is manual makes it more engaging as an enthusiast. Mine also as an enthusiast is that it makes my car faster and more efficient and focuses my driving.

Like I said earlier same way my bike has a quick shifter on.

In fact the perfect car would simply have three pedals and let you use the left one optionally when you felt like it, but we can’t have that in an affordable package if ever.

A clutch really just isn’t all that. It’s a minute chunk of the driving experience in reality.

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

And if and when you really want you can still flip them to manual mode...but even having had that I never really used it outside of novelty.

Being automatic doesn’t remove from the sporty or enthusiast experience at all.

There is no point arguing manual vs auto. I believe there is no wrong or right when it comes to enthusiasm. However, you sound like an old ballie and that's the only reason you own an auto

In my opinion paddle shift is nowhere near the same experience as stick. It's boring.

 

[Neuk_]

I see I missed a lot since this morning but most has been said, I prefer an automatic for everyday driving but as an enthusiast my next weekend toy will have a manual like my '66 VW Bus and '82 VW Golf have.

It is the same issue pilots of aircraft are experiencing. The really good ones are the ones that hone their skills in smaller planes and gliders. The others are no more than computer game jockeys. The "feel" is gone. Unless you go and do an advanced driving course I suppose.

Is there a path for a pilot, such as a commercial/airline pilot that doesn't include small planes? All my friends who are pilots started on microlights, then got their PPL in little planes like Cessna's before moving on to their Comm licences in larger planes before some became airline pilots in huge planes.

 

[Geoff.D]

Age is a frame of mind as well as attitude and physical attribute. So age has absolutely nothing to do with this debate at all.
This debate is about the introduction of technology not really suited to low power vehicles by car manufacturers.

 

[Neuk_]

Age is a frame of mind as well as attitude and physical attribute. So age has absolutely nothing to do with this debate at all.
This debate is about the introduction of technology not really suited to low power vehicles by car manufacturers.

Then this debate is about 45 years too late, automatics have been put in small, low power cars since at least the 70's.

 

[SauRoNZA]

There is no point arguing manual vs auto. I believe there is no wrong or right when it comes to enthusiasm. However, you sound like an old ballie and that's the only reason you own an auto

In my opinion paddle shift is nowhere near the same experience as stick. It's boring.

I’m 37.

I own a manual at present, because the available auto sucked.

But you are right, there is no point in arguing over it, nobody will change anyone’s mind.

They need to come to the conclusion that auto is better themselves.

People just need faster or more powerful cars to drive then they’ll get over the delusion of manual offering them more control when they realise they don’t have time to worry about that when the car is properly fast.

I’ve driven a 911 Turbo S at pace. Last thing I thought it needed was a manual gearbox.

Some boot space would have been more useful.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Age is a frame of mind as well as attitude and physical attribute. So age has absolutely nothing to do with this debate at all.
This debate is about the introduction of technology not really suited to low power vehicles by car manufacturers.

I will agree there.

Conventional torque converter automatics don’t belong anywhere close to cars doing say 100kw or less.

However because DCT’s are basically manuals they can go into almost anything, but it doesn’t always make financial sense.

What’s your idea of low power?

 

[Jchan11hk]

There’s a very good reason modern supercars and even just most sporty cars have dropped manuals entirely.

They just aren’t good enough.

Actually more to do with engineering, the engine has become more powerful and if they use a manual, they will have a risk of changing from fifth gear to first gear and then break the whole gearbox and probably casing a crash as well. In this modern world, the owner can actually use the OEM for allowing this risk to be in existence. Hence, one of the deciding factor is to have automatic, so that you mitigate this risk all together.