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Manual vs Automatic
- Thread starter DrewChan
- Start date
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
My personal milage versus the total mileage.
the point is clutch changes in manuals are very rare IF the vehicle is looked after.
So much for being on the ignore list.
Clearly we have very different definitions for "Total". And "finishing off" at a certain milage. Strange how you used much lower milage in the "most reliable car ever" thread. Seems to be the place to mention the big numbers. Remarkable how the jetta was "finished off" at 600 thousand and then miraculously raised itself from the dead for another 170 thousand or so. Lol. In just 2 years. Lol. But you wouldn't mention that in the "most reliable cars thread". No siree. No one there is interested in how reliable cars are. Just how far you drove them personally. In addition to your other ones.
Maybe communicating more clearly will save you from having to explain and backtrack the whole time here? I can see why you don't know anything about 'modern fancy bmws' if your experience is limited to 1950s designs. But it is still delusional to think you can 'pull away from just about anything in 5th gear' in an old bakkie. You need to alert people if you are racing them. Some people are just trying to drive in peace. Sorry.
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Wow. Great point. I really thought it was a consumable that you kinda had to change all the time. This changes everything.
Judging by the distances that you claim
 and the clutch life you claim, you can't really be changing gears all that often. Yet another reason to laugh off your uninformed opinions.
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Geoff.D
Honorary Master
Are you rejecting the idea that clutches are pretty reliable? Okay then.
In the most reliable thread as I interpreted the meaning, what could one vouch for yourself, hence the numbers quoted there.
No, all you are trying to do is justify your personal attacks just because someone has an opinion about automatics and in particular the drivers of certain automatics
Maybe I should start attacking you for your personal attacks on drivers of "vitos" You seems to have the view that they are the scum of the earth and have no place on our roads either.
Oh of course, the only ones entitled to use the roads are aggressive BMW automatic drivers. The rest of the driving population must simply not be anywhere in sight.
Of I know, you are a blue light brigade driver! Hence why you have this attitude.
Are by any chance the driver of that BMW? is that why you are so upset?
Are you denying that it is possible for any auto vehicle to not downshift in some circumstances? If so, then explain why automatics can be "downshifted" by a driver?
Surely such a facility will be completely unnecessary if the vehicle will always select the best gear ratio in all circumstances.
Are you saying that an automatic will always select the most appropriate gear in all circumstances and won't "hunt" - I don't know the correct term to use -- between two gears? Certainly, most if not all manual drivers will attest to cases where they could not decide which gear was more appropriate.
Or that a 6-speed manual 4 x 4 with sufficient power will not be able to maintain speed up a hill at 3 000 to 3 400 revs if in the correct gear? And cruise at 1 500 to 2 000 revs in 6th gear on the level?
In the most reliable thread as I interpreted the meaning, what could one vouch for yourself, hence the numbers quoted there.
No, all you are trying to do is justify your personal attacks just because someone has an opinion about automatics and in particular the drivers of certain automatics
Maybe I should start attacking you for your personal attacks on drivers of "vitos" You seems to have the view that they are the scum of the earth and have no place on our roads either.
Oh of course, the only ones entitled to use the roads are aggressive BMW automatic drivers. The rest of the driving population must simply not be anywhere in sight.
Of I know, you are a blue light brigade driver! Hence why you have this attitude.
Are by any chance the driver of that BMW? is that why you are so upset?
Are you denying that it is possible for any auto vehicle to not downshift in some circumstances? If so, then explain why automatics can be "downshifted" by a driver?
Surely such a facility will be completely unnecessary if the vehicle will always select the best gear ratio in all circumstances.
Are you saying that an automatic will always select the most appropriate gear in all circumstances and won't "hunt" - I don't know the correct term to use -- between two gears? Certainly, most if not all manual drivers will attest to cases where they could not decide which gear was more appropriate.
Or that a 6-speed manual 4 x 4 with sufficient power will not be able to maintain speed up a hill at 3 000 to 3 400 revs if in the correct gear? And cruise at 1 500 to 2 000 revs in 6th gear on the level?
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Archer
Honorary Master
It's been stated quite clearly that autos can downshift, gosh. As for why many autos allow the driver to do their own thing, the marketing people know that sometimes some people want to go manual, that's it really. Now please listen very carefully to this next part - a well designed auto will never hunt for gears. Clever engineers have done all the work they needed to make sure of that in order to provide a good drive and also protect the engine.
But if you'd rather choose to believe that it is somehow possible for humans to select the right great 99.9% of the time based on feels and sound of the car, but impossible for those same humans to design an auto to do the same while having direct access to many more sensors with accurate information, go right ahead. Because that's what your argument is boiling down to now and it's getting rather silly.
Archer
Honorary Master
Also...
No, can you even read? Where on earth did you get that? Are you off your meds? Not your first language?
"I am looking pretty crazy here. Let me make up something I can actually argue! So I can get away from all the clueless things I said! That will make me look better!". No. It makes you look worse.
And yes, it is an attack on vivos. And people who put their family in
Imagine an aged boy racer revving his bakkie at BMWs. We all know that with competence, a bakkie is soooo much faster up hills. Jealousy? Insecurity?
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quovadis
Honorary Master
Doppelkupplungsgetriebe ftw
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
One more time. I was not racing anyone. I was simply riding along minding my own business. I don't need to prove anything to anyone.
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
Okay I get it. Well designed auto boxes never hunt between gears.
There are no circumstances that can arise where this will happen ever. The driver has no influence over the process.
He/she will never apply too little pressure on the gas pedal for that to happen.
Neuk_
Honorary Master
I'll admit, I am not familiar with Fords Powershift, I assumed it may be from the same creeping issue that affects VAG DCT's.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
Since you love finding links to support your view.
Book a Car Service Online | Car Servicing
Book your car service online at a DVSA-approved service centre. Minor, Major and Manufacturer car servicing available from expert vehicle technicians.
How Long Does a Clutch Last? | YourMechanic Advice
It’s a fact of life that a car clutch will almost certainly wear out before your car does. That’s because, even under normal use, they’re going to take quite a lot of wear and tear with constant gear changes when you’re shifting...
www.yourmechanic.com
Can we agree that they are consumable items that on average rarely go beyond 150,000km, regardless of your magical mileage.
I’m betting ALL the clutches in your unicorn cars were hell and gone, but because it still moves forwards and changed gear you deemed it just fine....because #MANUAL4LIFE.
Also you are arguing a logical fallacy with the downshift nonsense. The cars are by default setup to be most economical and maintain a speed.
Having the ability to downshift doesn’t mean their maintained gear is wrong or incorrect, it simply give the driver the control (that you claim is lacking from an auto) to override the economical first approach and push the most power instead to INCREASE speed and progress further faster at the expense of more fuel.
The car will always be in the correct gear to progress forward at the current speed comfortably, of if an increase in speed is demand doing so most economically.
The driver has the option to manually override this if they so choose.
As for the hunting of gears it’s simply a case of bad ratios implemented on the wrong cars. The exact thing happens to manuals when they mate the same box to many variants of engines, it’s not the gearbox type at fault it’s simply manufacturer cutting corners.
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Neuk_
Honorary Master
I managed to do it perfectly fine for the 3+ years and 50k km's I owned a Golf with a DSG and there is no reason why anyone else shouldn't be able to do the same. What you describe is simply drivers being impatient, ill informed, lacking mechanical knowledge and sympathy, etc. This is essentially the crux of many driving/vehicle related issues in South Africa and elsewhere in the world where humans have become less and less responsible for their own experience.
You are starting to sound like a broken record, when called out or shown to be wrong or provided a different view point to yours, you lash out with the same lame rhetoric. A simple Google provides some basic definitions of a DCT gearbox...
Dual-clutch transmission - Wikipedia
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
Correct.
I’ll add a well designed automatic matched correctly to the car and engine.
My DSG never hunted for anything.
The only oddity ever experienced was trying to basically rally drive a sporty car up a grassy hill and the gearbox/clutch not being sure what the hell to do and spinning.
Easily resolved by taking all feet off all peddles and letting it climb itself up the hill calmly.
Neuk_
Honorary Master
@Neuk:
Here is a cut n paste out of an article written by someone talking about one or another VW DCT vehicle from a site that specialises in car topics:
Hmmm. Clearly, that author did not go to the @Neuk School of advanced driving!
So what now? Why are DCT boxes burning out their clutches??? Is it the el-cheapo DCT box or driver training or a combination of both?
Or, maybe it is simply the fact that DCT boxes are not really suitable for use on busy highways in urban areas? Yes??? No??? Maybe Hmmm
In my experience, premature clutch wear or burnout in DCT gearboxes is from driver misuse.
Neuk_
Honorary Master
The bolded part is the kicker, most who 'creep' while driving DSG's don't fully release the brake which effectively drags the clutches, similar to slipping a clutch in a manual gearbox.
Correct. having spent a combined 6 years in bumper to bumper traffic in DSG cars. It takes a very specific technique not to ride the clutch. still better than manual
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
Yeah it’s a weird thing to put my head around as I could never possibly drive like that, regardless of which kind of automatic.
But does make sense.
So to me it’s not a specific technique as per your post above, just normal operation of driving an automatic vehicle.
Neuk_
Honorary Master
This is the main issue, automatic or manual, most 'new' drivers are horrendous. In fact even some 'old' drivers like my mother are terrible but this has little to do with technology.