Manual vs Automatic

SauRoNZA said:
I read 60,000-100,000 miles as being the average expected change.

You are spot on that it’s a grudge purchase which is why I highlighted that more than likely all the clutches in your super high mileage examples are more than likely worn and should be replaced but because they mostly keep working they are deemed as just fine.

Things like loss of horsepower and fuel economy are easily ignored (vs new) because it works and it changes gears, but doesn’t really mean the clutch isn’t due for replacement.

As you also rightly stated it’s not something that gets checked unless there is an external appearance of a definite problem, hence my highlight of them quite likely being gone “on paper”.

Same reason I recommend changing the water pump and thermostat when doing a cam belt regardless of them needing to be replaced because it’s cheaper to do while you are there in most cases.

The hunting though is equally a problem on manuals with regards to mismatching, but I’ll concede that a manual driver can of course learn the car and know when to stick in what gear to camouflage terrible ratios where an automatic will forever have the problem.

This is easily negated through test drive, test drive and more test drive so you don’t end up with such a dud.

Can we at least agree that clutches on cars are consumable maintenance items, albeit reasonably higher mileage ones?
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Yes agreed. and yes the same applies to other items on a car. Everyone should know about a suitable slope in their area to undertake test drives on. There is one close to me, as steep as all, hell, with nice potholes at the bottom, forcing you to drive very carefully in a 60 zone, which means no high-speed slope attack techniques which is a perfect test for any vehicle. Oh, there is also a 4-way stop at the top with a blind intersection on the RHS right at the crest of the hill.

That is where I check my cars out and any that I may take for a test drive.
 
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I have a headache with all the repetition in this thread lol.

My 2c.

It depends on the car and the gearbox entirely however:

Manual - Great in the old days and definitely a fine art to learn proper clutch control. Definitely superior to early automatic clunky systems where you had basically drive, reverse and park. Would choose manual on most 10 yr and older cars if forced to choose and there have been some clunky automatics even in exotics.

Automatic - Modern automatic systems are far superior and almost all allow you to manually shift either at the console or via paddles behind the steering wheel (if available).

As for driving, modern automatics cannot be laboured or abused to the extent that you'll cause damage as they have protection mechanisms including clutch temperature throttling etc. You will not and cannot go faster, have more control or have a more "connected" drive in a manual vs an automatic in modern vehicles.
 
quovadis said:
I have a headache with all the repetition in this thread lol.

My 2c.

It depends on the car and the gearbox entirely however:

Manual - Great in the old days and definitely a fine art to learn proper clutch control. Definitely superior to early automatic clunky systems where you had basically drive, reverse and park. Would choose manual on most 10 yr and older cars if forced to choose and there have been some clunky automatics even in exotics.

Automatic - Modern automatic systems are far superior and almost all allow you to manually shift either at the console or via paddles behind the steering wheel (if available).

As for driving, modern automatics cannot be laboured or abused to the extent that you'll cause damage as they have protection mechanisms including clutch temperature throttling etc. You will not and cannot go faster, have more control or have a more "connected" drive in a manual vs an automatic in modern vehicles.
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Yip - I would be hesitant to buy a manual turbo diesel. You know that engine has been lugged to death by people who are scared to downshift.
 
quovadis said:
I have a headache with all the repetition in this thread lol.

My 2c.

It depends on the car and the gearbox entirely however:

Manual - Great in the old days and definitely a fine art to learn proper clutch control. Definitely superior to early automatic clunky systems where you had basically drive, reverse and park. Would choose manual on most 10 yr and older cars if forced to choose and there have been some clunky automatics even in exotics.

Automatic - Modern automatic systems are far superior and almost all allow you to manually shift either at the console or via paddles behind the steering wheel (if available).

As for driving, modern automatics cannot be laboured or abused to the extent that you'll cause damage as they have protection mechanisms including clutch temperature throttling etc. You will not and cannot go faster, have more control or have a more "connected" drive in a manual vs an automatic in modern vehicles.
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Bit of a generalisation towards the end, most probably true for the upmarket cars, but not always true for the low-end ones. Too many negative comments around about virtually all the low end smaller "automatics" and some of the really horrible compromises the manufacturers are up to.
 
quovadis said:
I have a headache with all the repetition in this thread lol.

My 2c.

It depends on the car and the gearbox entirely however:

Manual - Great in the old days and definitely a fine art to learn proper clutch control. Definitely superior to early automatic clunky systems where you had basically drive, reverse and park. Would choose manual on most 10 yr and older cars if forced to choose and there have been some clunky automatics even in exotics.

Automatic - Modern automatic systems are far superior and almost all allow you to manually shift either at the console or via paddles behind the steering wheel (if available).

As for driving, modern automatics cannot be laboured or abused to the extent that you'll cause damage as they have protection mechanisms including clutch temperature throttling etc. You will not and cannot go faster, have more control or have a more "connected" drive in a manual vs an automatic in modern vehicles.
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By and large, I'll agree on automatics when well mated to properly powerful engines and appropriate weight cars.

There is however a lot of garbage cheap as chips corner-cutting pieces of **** in smaller to medium sizes/priced cars that should be manual instead and nothing else.

The problem is they aren't actually "modern" so your statement does kind of remain true, the problem is people will confuse "modern" with "new" which isn't the case as you can find a lot of old-tech crap in brand new cheaper cars.

On that part Geoff has been mostly right, he just blanketed it across automatics as a whole where the point was somewhat lost.

Kia for instance still sell a piece of crap 4-speed in their small cars and not so long ago the same box in their bigger cars.
 
This argument still carrying on. gotta love the internet.

Thing is. I have never, ever enjoyed driving an auto car until dual clutch transmissions arrived. I then eventually drove a modern fast shifting sports car auto matic (torque converter) and its as good.

I do agree, on cheaper cars, stay away from auto, for various reasons, power, quality, lack of fart noises.

But on anything luxury or sport. Im very happy with a fast shifting auto/dual clutch transmission. Makes living with the car easier. and when hammering around the mountain passes, you can focus on the perfect line, and not fail at perfect heal toing. I can guarantee that almost NOBODY on this forum can drive a manual, do blips and rev matching close to what a well programmed auto can.
 
nazmo said:
This argument still carrying on. gotta love the internet.

Thing is. I have never, ever enjoyed driving an auto car until dual clutch transmissions arrived. I then eventually drove a modern fast shifting sports car auto matic (torque converter) and its as good.

I do agree, on cheaper cars, stay away from auto, for various reasons, power, quality, lack of fart noises.

But on anything luxury or sport. Im very happy with a fast shifting auto/dual clutch transmission. Makes living with the car easier. and when hammering around the mountain passes, you can focus on the perfect line, and not fail at perfect heal toing. I can guarantee that almost NOBODY on this forum can drive a manual, do blips and rev matching close to what a well programmed auto can.
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I would not know if that is true or not. All I know is that I am pretty good at it seeing I have been at it since 1967.
 
FiestaST said:
Vintage ad relevant to this thread:

View attachment 759540

Manual or Automatic. Choose your poison.
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That was it. Very popular at the time amongst enthusiasts. The manual version had the gear change on the steering column. The idea being that hand movement to and from the steering wheel was less than a stick shift.
Very large steering wheel as well. Fun car to drive. The manual that is.
 
FiestaST said:
I can't confirm that unfortunately. Surely there was other autos in that time period?
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I am not sure at all if Ford had an automatic in the market place at the time. My uncles were Ford and Chrysler people and my dad was an Austin man. It was only the one uncle that had an automatic.
 
"We were driving the manual version and it’s not often these days that a manual car ends up in the driveway. It takes a while to get used to it again as I found out on a couple of occasions, almost stalling on slowing down by forgetting to change down gears."

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