[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

[Albereth]

Anyone seen this or is it 'shopped ?

Shopped by someone who can't afford apostrophes.

 

[DJ...]

You can tell by the pixels...

 

[LazyLion]

You can tell by the pixels...

and I have seen quite a few 'shops in my time.

 

[2026]

Are farmers going to set up shop in your suburb so that retailers can avoid paying toll fees to transport goods?
What about imported goods? How will it get from the docks or the airport to the local businesses?
Yeah ... this "will make local business boom".
I can't wait for Sasol to set up a refinery in my suburb so I can walk to work ... in the smog.

I don't live in JHB, so the answer to your questions would be "no".

GP cost will go up, more people will move out of the hell hole, more business will spread elsewhere in the country as it's more cost efficient to be outside of GP - well, thats what the smart people would do.

Wouldn't surprise me if many haven't already made plans to move out of GP because of this.

 

[Wyzak]

I don't live in JHB, so the answer to your questions would be "no".

GP cost will go up, more people will move out of the hell hole, more business will spread elsewhere in the country as it's more cost efficient to be outside of GP - well, thats what the smart people would do.

Wouldn't surprise me if many haven't already made plans to move out of GP because of this.

Is that the answer to everything? Just give up and run away? You have now also successfully insulted the majority of GP by calling them stupid. I prefer to fight until I have no other options left. You make it sound so easy to just leave your employment, friends and family behind and to sell your house.

 

[Compton_effect]

I don't live in JHB, so the answer to your questions would be "no".

GP cost will go up, more people will move out of the hell hole, more business will spread elsewhere in the country as it's more cost efficient to be outside of GP - well, thats what the smart people would do.

Wouldn't surprise me if many haven't already made plans to move out of GP because of this.

You have any idea how many trucks use those toll roads to places like Parmalat, Unilever, Tiger Foods, and Nestle (to name a few)? You ever eaten spare ribs in a restaurant? Chances are they came from BRM in Honeydew.They all have facilities in and around Johannesburg. You're also going to pay bitch.:twisted:

 

[Sinbad]

Is that the answer to everything? Just give up and run away? You have now also successfully insulted the majority of GP by calling them stupid. I prefer to fight until I have no other options left. You make it sound so easy to just leave your employment, friends and family behind and to sell your house.

Also, forgetting that the plan is for this to be a NATIONAL rollout ... and you can be sure that any infrastructure upgrades needed in the place you move TO will also be paid for the same way.

 

[MKFrost]

Also, forgetting that the plan is for this to be a NATIONAL rollout ...

Agreed, this fight against tolls should not be seen as a Gauteng problem, its a national one. We already have the little towers and everything that has been erected on the N2 down here so just a matter of time.

If however tolls can be given a kick in the nuts up there then we might prevent it from becoming a national 'problem'. So forget about your own little enclave wherever you are and put your support behind OUTA/Gauteng on a national level, this fight affects us all.

 

[2026]

Is that the answer to everything? Just give up and run away? You have now also successfully insulted the majority of GP by calling them stupid. I prefer to fight until I have no other options left. You make it sound so easy to just leave your employment, friends and family behind and to sell your house.

Wow, you're a master at twisting words. I'm not even going to address your post.

 

[2026]

You have any idea how many trucks use those toll roads to places like Parmalat, Unilever, Tiger Foods, and Nestle (to name a few)? You ever eaten spare ribs in a restaurant? Chances are they came from BRM in Honeydew.They all have facilities in and around Johannesburg. You're also going to pay bitch.:twisted:

You're just justifying what I said. Prices of GP goods will go up, others outside GP will have a solid advantage of being able to provide for cheaper than the GP counterparts.

eg.
A Durban Spur by ribs from GP for R10, or R8 'locally'? Easy decision.

 

[2026]

Also, forgetting that the plan is for this to be a NATIONAL rollout ... and you can be sure that any infrastructure upgrades needed in the place you move TO will also be paid for the same way.

Well, here's hoping that GP is a lesson learnt for the rest of us and there is actually more effort to stop the rollout "locally". (But I know better, if the GP tolls are profitable for SANRAL we're all skrewed, they'll just pass laws again to get their way... don't by an etag, make the system crumble before it gets to us please.)

 

[Compton_effect]

You're just justifying what I said. Prices of GP goods will go up, others outside GP will have a solid advantage of being able to provide for cheaper than the GP counterparts.

eg.
A Durban Spur by ribs from GP for R10, or R8 'locally'? Easy decision.

Unilever - you want to find local suppliers for some of these? (Not all of them are made in Johannesburg, but quite a large number)
Rama
Pond's
Lipton
Lux
Brut
Organics
Sunlight
Axe
Lifebuoy
Stork
Robertsons
Dawn
Skip
Glen Tea
Motions
Sunsilk
Ola
Radox
Comfort
Pepsodent
TRESemme
Rajah
Vaseline
Knorrox
Flora
Knorr
Shield
Dove
Joko Tea
Fissan
Handy Andy
Surf
Impulse
Omo
Domestos
VO5
Close Up
Vim

 

[2026]

Unilever - you want to find local suppliers for some of these? (Not all of them are made in Johannesburg, but quite a large number)
Rama
Pond's
Lipton
Lux
Brut
Organics
Sunlight
Axe
Lifebuoy
Stork
Robertsons
Dawn
Skip
Glen Tea
Motions
Sunsilk
Ola
Radox
Comfort
Pepsodent
TRESemme
Rajah
Vaseline
Knorrox
Flora
Knorr
Shield
Dove
Joko Tea
Fissan
Handy Andy
Surf
Impulse
Omo
Domestos
VO5
Close Up
Vim

We're discussing if the tolls will impact business. I say that it will impact GP negatively but (while etolls are only in GP) will allow businesses based/produced outside GP to get strong advantage (less costs). Some of these guys might actually move operations to outside GP (doubt it though) to other provinces.

Basically, it might become more profitable to operated outside GP, so business outside GP may flourish.

But maybe not, maybe it's still more profitable to be based in GP with tolls as everyone must just suck it up. I'd like to beleive that we have some [-]smart[/-] savvy entrepreneurs who'll jump at the chance to take on the GP business as the GP business get more expensive.

 

[Sinbad]

We're discussing if the tolls will impact business. I say that it will impact GP negatively but (while etolls are only in GP) will allow businesses based/produced outside GP to get strong advantage (less costs). Some of these guys might actually move operations to outside GP (doubt it though) to other provinces.

Basically, it might become more profitable to operated outside GP, so business outside GP may flourish.

But maybe not, maybe it's still more profitable to be based in GP with tolls as everyone must just suck it up. I'd like to beleive that we have some [-]smart[/-] savvy entrepreneurs who'll jump at the chance to take on the GP business as the GP business get more expensive.

etolls will make no difference to a business's profits. The costs will be passed on to consumers. End of story.

 

[LazyLion]

etolls will make no difference to a business's profits. The costs will be passed on to consumers. End of story.

That's a bit naive though. Many consumers are not willing to accept cost increases and will not buy as much product.
That will definitely impact businesses.

 

[Paul_S]

I don't think decentralization will happen for the majority of business.
If you move your business you need to ensure that all your suppliers and customers move with you.
What if you're a financial or services based company with walk in clients?
If you move from Sandton to Lichtenberg you're probably going to chase all your customers away.
What if you need to distribute your products to consumers?
Will Dorpie X be able to purchase all your goods or are you going to have to truck everything into the major city centres.

Decentralization will push up transportation costs even more than e-tolling IMO.

 

[Compton_effect]

Some of the big manufacturers have facilities worth Billions here. They will not be able to move.
This might cause decentralisation in the long term (Wishfull thinking), but by then the etoll roads in other cities will also be in place.
One thought struck me. Etolling will actually create a market for a decent public transport system.

 

[Wyzak]

Some of the big manufacturers have facilities worth Billions here. They will not be able to move.
This might cause decentralisation in the long term (Wishfull thinking), but by then the etoll roads in other cities will also be in place.
One thought struck me. Etolling will actually create a market for a decent public transport system.

Yeah, once e-tolls have taken effect it will actually almost be cost effective for me to use the very expensive Gautrain instead of driving on the roads when going to the airport. No doubt that this influenced their decision.

 

[OMB]

Anyone seen this or is it 'shopped ?

'shopped, should also be e-tags, not e-toll

 

[OMB]

Yeah, once e-tolls have taken effect it will actually almost be cost effective for me to use the very expensive Gautrain instead of driving on the roads when going to the airport. No doubt that this influenced their decision.

it did, the rep from National Treasury at the public hearings said as much, she said that one of the primary reasons for implementing tolling was to reduce the number of cars on the highways