Thingyyyyyy
Expert Member
It's all gone past so far over Jacksons head it was in orbit!
Haai shame it must be hard to be that stupid.
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[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread
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Haai shame it must be hard to be that stupid.
daveza
Honorary Master
This one is a keeper.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Mysterious Billboards Mock ANC and e-tolling
Three massive billboards mocking the ruling ANC and e-tolls have been anonymously erected on Johannesburg highways, The New Age reported on Friday.
The billboards state: "E-tolls. Proudly brought to you by the ANC."
The structures are owned by outdoor media company vanTill Outdoor, but it would not divulge who the client is, saying a confidentiality agreement had been signed.
ANC spokesman Jackson Mthembu told the newspaper: "I can tell you it is definitely not us that is behind the billboards. The ANC would have branded it with the logo and ANC colours if it was us."
The billboards have been erected on the N3 and N1 highways.
Source : Sapa /fg/jje
Date : 04 Oct 2013 08:05
Three massive billboards mocking the ruling ANC and e-tolls have been anonymously erected on Johannesburg highways, The New Age reported on Friday.
The billboards state: "E-tolls. Proudly brought to you by the ANC."
The structures are owned by outdoor media company vanTill Outdoor, but it would not divulge who the client is, saying a confidentiality agreement had been signed.
ANC spokesman Jackson Mthembu told the newspaper: "I can tell you it is definitely not us that is behind the billboards. The ANC would have branded it with the logo and ANC colours if it was us."
The billboards have been erected on the N3 and N1 highways.
Source : Sapa /fg/jje
Date : 04 Oct 2013 08:05
daveza
Honorary Master
Heisenborg
Honorary Master
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And the ANC giving tshirts and food parcels before by-elections is fine. Fecktards
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
This is gonna get amusing...
There is no reference to the elections, therefore the IEC have no jurisdiction. The ANC will have a tough time getting the ASA involved either since the advert is actually true.
There is no reference to the elections, therefore the IEC have no jurisdiction. The ANC will have a tough time getting the ASA involved either since the advert is actually true.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Watch, they will go after the "Copyright" Angle and "unauthorised use of their name"
Sinbad
Honorary Master
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IEC has no jurisdiction on that.
Also, ANC is an ante-nuptial contract. So good luck on that one too.
Also, SANRAL will be the owners of eToll, not the ANC, so ****em.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Proposed E-toll Tarrifs to be Published next week
UPDATE
Government intends to publicise the proposed e-toll tariffs for Gauteng next week, the SABC reported on Friday.
This was with a view to implementing them by the end of November, the broadcaster reported.
"After the tariffs are advertised, there will be a period of 30 days for public comment," Transport Minister Dipuo Peters reportedly said.
She told the SABC she believed that after this period had ended, the SA National Roads Agency Ltd would be able to implement the tolls within one or two weeks.
The Supreme Court of Appeal reserved judgment late last month on a legal challenge to e-tolls by lobby group Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa).
Source : Sapa /ss/jk/ks/jje
Date : 04 Oct 2013 13:34
UPDATE
Government intends to publicise the proposed e-toll tariffs for Gauteng next week, the SABC reported on Friday.
This was with a view to implementing them by the end of November, the broadcaster reported.
"After the tariffs are advertised, there will be a period of 30 days for public comment," Transport Minister Dipuo Peters reportedly said.
She told the SABC she believed that after this period had ended, the SA National Roads Agency Ltd would be able to implement the tolls within one or two weeks.
The Supreme Court of Appeal reserved judgment late last month on a legal challenge to e-tolls by lobby group Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa).
Source : Sapa /ss/jk/ks/jje
Date : 04 Oct 2013 13:34
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
I would like to see them try, they'll get shot down very quickly.
Heisenborg
Honorary Master
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and what should we be commenting on during the 30 days
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
DA Slams Peters on E-Tolls
Transport Minister Dipuo Peters is "out of touch with reality" regarding e-tolling, the DA said on Friday.
"The SA National Roads Agency Ltd's (Sanral) e-toll contract documents confirm that opposition to e-tolls grew from 39 percent to 48 percent between April 2009 and June 2009 alone," Democratic Alliance spokesman Ian Ollis said in a statement.
Despite the mounting opposition to e-tolls, Peters, President Jacob Zuma, and Sanral were forging ahead with implementation of e-tolling.
"[Peters'] comments this week on the implementation of e-tolling show that she is out of touch with reality," Ollis said.
Peters reportedly said "a few number of people" had spoken out against e-tolling.
"I don't know whether we can say it is unpopular with motorists. It's better for you to get your tag in time," Peters said.
On Friday, the SABC reported that government intended to publicise the proposed e-toll tariffs next week.
This was with a view to implementing them by the end of November, the broadcaster reported.
"After the tariffs are advertised, there will be a period of 30 days for public comment," Peters said.
She told the SABC she believed that after this period had ended, Sanral would be able to implement the tolls within one or two weeks.
The Supreme Court of Appeal reserved judgment late last month on a legal challenge by lobby group Opposition To Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa).
Ollis vowed that the DA would continue to fight against open road tolling as a solution to fund road upgrades and maintenance in Gauteng.
"This is not the end of the road," he said.
"We cannot and will not support e-tolling as it will be disastrous to the economy and people of Gauteng. The DA listened to the people's opposition to e-tolls and successfully halted e-tolls in the Western Cape," he said.
Source : Sapa /ss/jk/ks/jje
Date : 04 Oct 2013 13:56
Transport Minister Dipuo Peters is "out of touch with reality" regarding e-tolling, the DA said on Friday.
"The SA National Roads Agency Ltd's (Sanral) e-toll contract documents confirm that opposition to e-tolls grew from 39 percent to 48 percent between April 2009 and June 2009 alone," Democratic Alliance spokesman Ian Ollis said in a statement.
Despite the mounting opposition to e-tolls, Peters, President Jacob Zuma, and Sanral were forging ahead with implementation of e-tolling.
"[Peters'] comments this week on the implementation of e-tolling show that she is out of touch with reality," Ollis said.
Peters reportedly said "a few number of people" had spoken out against e-tolling.
"I don't know whether we can say it is unpopular with motorists. It's better for you to get your tag in time," Peters said.
On Friday, the SABC reported that government intended to publicise the proposed e-toll tariffs next week.
This was with a view to implementing them by the end of November, the broadcaster reported.
"After the tariffs are advertised, there will be a period of 30 days for public comment," Peters said.
She told the SABC she believed that after this period had ended, Sanral would be able to implement the tolls within one or two weeks.
The Supreme Court of Appeal reserved judgment late last month on a legal challenge by lobby group Opposition To Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa).
Ollis vowed that the DA would continue to fight against open road tolling as a solution to fund road upgrades and maintenance in Gauteng.
"This is not the end of the road," he said.
"We cannot and will not support e-tolling as it will be disastrous to the economy and people of Gauteng. The DA listened to the people's opposition to e-tolls and successfully halted e-tolls in the Western Cape," he said.
Source : Sapa /ss/jk/ks/jje
Date : 04 Oct 2013 13:56
Last edited:
Hey guys, so I did a few calculations with regards to the numbers Sanral are lying about. We know that they're lying, but let's see to what extent they're defrauding us by:
So I've crunched the numbers even further with a very quick and dirty calculation that proves that they are lying.
Check this out:
Using Sanral's numbers, it would be impossible for them to repay their debt.
Their bonds are ten year issuances. They mature in 2020 (which is when final payment including all interest must be paid)
As you can see, using their numbers, they would have an annual shortfall of R9bn in this respect. They would default in their first 3 months of operation.
In fact using their numbers, it would take about 37 years for them to repay their bond investors. But they issued ten year bonds - they cannot extend this term whatsoever.
Ignore the theoretical margin in this one. We'll get to it next.
All of this assumes a 30% EBITDA margin, which is fair for any company. The likelihood of them operating at a higher margin than that is very slim.
Bottom line: Sanral are lying through their teeth.
Next lady for a shave:
Let's see what kind of margins and income they would actually have to generate in order to repay their debt (remember that this involves them repaying their entire margin towards their debt - no reinvestment in their roads, no maintenance of the roads, no profits effectively, and this is all before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation which will erode a massive chunk of that margin as well).
So, using their figures, they would need to operating under the following conditions:
No costs whatsoever to their business. Nothing.
Even with no costs whatsoever, they're still short 10% income to repay their loan.
They'd need to operate on a 100% margin. So every cent they spend, they make double, effectively. In other words, they simply receive money and never spend it. Ever. And, they're still short 10% here.
So even in a world where they have no costs at all, do not pay tax, do not depreciate their assets, do not amortise anything at all - they still cannot repay their debt based on the numbers they submitted. Can you believe it? Not even in a world where every single road user goes and pays Sanral's creditors on Sanral's behalf to eliminate the cost element, do so on time, Sanral have no costs, nor maintenance at all. They still cannot repay their debt.
So let's see how much they would need to charge the average road user in order to repay their debt on time, working on a 30% margin which is reasonable, if not high for them:
So... every single Gauteng road user would have to pay R598 per month just for Sanral to repay their debt. And on time as well. That's an impossible 100% 30 day debtors book. And that doesn't take into account other elements like tax, depreciation, other interest, amortisation etc, and also means no road maintenance whastoever. This is a perfect world scenario.
So what can we conclude?
Sanral are a lying bunch of thieving bastards.
But wait, there's more. Let's actually factor in the other costs. Let's let Sanral work on a 10% net profit margin after absolutely everything:
Every single Gauteng road user realistically needs to pay about R1794 per month in order for Sanral to operate as a somewhat liquid business. Otherwise they will require cash injections in a massive way in order to stay afloat. So basically, e-tolls should be scrapped now. Nobody is going to pay R1794 per month just to drive on our own roads. This is simply not possible. It's absurd. It's ridiculous. It is quite clear that Sanral are stuffed as an organisation. If only half of road users pay their e-tolls, they'd have to be paying R3600 per month in order for Sanral to break even as a business.
So they're either going to cross-subsidise e-tolling with other projects (which I don't think is entirely legal or ethical) or paying e-tolls means paying money into a dead duck. You might as well burn your money in a big fire.
Spread this around to your friends and family. I'm tired of seeing them bandy about numbers as blatant lies. These numbers work back with what we actually know.
And what we know now, is that paying e-tolls is the WRONG thing to do, not only on moral grounds, but on financial grounds as well. Paying e-tolls will not cover their debt. It's time the government cut its losses and found other ways to monetise the gantries. Like average speed traps, perhaps? Or melting them down and using it for cabling infrastructure to connect SA properly?
So I've crunched the numbers even further with a very quick and dirty calculation that proves that they are lying.
Check this out:
Using Sanral's numbers, it would be impossible for them to repay their debt.
Their bonds are ten year issuances. They mature in 2020 (which is when final payment including all interest must be paid)
As you can see, using their numbers, they would have an annual shortfall of R9bn in this respect. They would default in their first 3 months of operation.
In fact using their numbers, it would take about 37 years for them to repay their bond investors. But they issued ten year bonds - they cannot extend this term whatsoever.
Ignore the theoretical margin in this one. We'll get to it next.
All of this assumes a 30% EBITDA margin, which is fair for any company. The likelihood of them operating at a higher margin than that is very slim.
Bottom line: Sanral are lying through their teeth.
Next lady for a shave:
Let's see what kind of margins and income they would actually have to generate in order to repay their debt (remember that this involves them repaying their entire margin towards their debt - no reinvestment in their roads, no maintenance of the roads, no profits effectively, and this is all before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation which will erode a massive chunk of that margin as well).
So, using their figures, they would need to operating under the following conditions:
No costs whatsoever to their business. Nothing.
Even with no costs whatsoever, they're still short 10% income to repay their loan.
They'd need to operate on a 100% margin. So every cent they spend, they make double, effectively. In other words, they simply receive money and never spend it. Ever. And, they're still short 10% here.
So even in a world where they have no costs at all, do not pay tax, do not depreciate their assets, do not amortise anything at all - they still cannot repay their debt based on the numbers they submitted. Can you believe it? Not even in a world where every single road user goes and pays Sanral's creditors on Sanral's behalf to eliminate the cost element, do so on time, Sanral have no costs, nor maintenance at all. They still cannot repay their debt.
So let's see how much they would need to charge the average road user in order to repay their debt on time, working on a 30% margin which is reasonable, if not high for them:
So... every single Gauteng road user would have to pay R598 per month just for Sanral to repay their debt. And on time as well. That's an impossible 100% 30 day debtors book. And that doesn't take into account other elements like tax, depreciation, other interest, amortisation etc, and also means no road maintenance whastoever. This is a perfect world scenario.
So what can we conclude?
Sanral are a lying bunch of thieving bastards.
But wait, there's more. Let's actually factor in the other costs. Let's let Sanral work on a 10% net profit margin after absolutely everything:
Every single Gauteng road user realistically needs to pay about R1794 per month in order for Sanral to operate as a somewhat liquid business. Otherwise they will require cash injections in a massive way in order to stay afloat. So basically, e-tolls should be scrapped now. Nobody is going to pay R1794 per month just to drive on our own roads. This is simply not possible. It's absurd. It's ridiculous. It is quite clear that Sanral are stuffed as an organisation. If only half of road users pay their e-tolls, they'd have to be paying R3600 per month in order for Sanral to break even as a business.
So they're either going to cross-subsidise e-tolling with other projects (which I don't think is entirely legal or ethical) or paying e-tolls means paying money into a dead duck. You might as well burn your money in a big fire.
Spread this around to your friends and family. I'm tired of seeing them bandy about numbers as blatant lies. These numbers work back with what we actually know.
And what we know now, is that paying e-tolls is the WRONG thing to do, not only on moral grounds, but on financial grounds as well. Paying e-tolls will not cover their debt. It's time the government cut its losses and found other ways to monetise the gantries. Like average speed traps, perhaps? Or melting them down and using it for cabling infrastructure to connect SA properly?
Last edited:
lucifir
Expert Member
Also, the ANC are the ones that are saying etolls is a good thing.
Why would they have a problem with something that advertises their support of the etolls??
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
DJ... Have you sent that to media outlets? I'm sure a few might be interested... Or OUTA, even? Who knows, maybe it corroborates some of their own findings?
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