[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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A method of legally delaying e-toll payments

A method of legally delaying e-toll payments is extremely simple, yet completely successful, and wholly legal.

1) After the first 4-6 weeks of passing through toll gantries, send SANRAL a registered letter, expressing your concern, that for the last 4- 6 weeks you have not received a payment request from them. You must state that you are COMPLETELY willing to pay the toll fees, but this cannot be carried out without a detailed invoice. Unreliable postal services could be to blame, so please would they send you your invoice by registered mail, to ensure you receive it. (This is a fully legal AARTO requirement for any letter of demand.) Make a photocopy of your letter, get a COMMISSIONER OF OATHS to stamp the copy, and keep your registered mail receipt. Such a request could take months to be settled, and if you are fortunate, never at all due to the sheer volume of similar requests received. Should you finally receive a notification that a registered letter has arrived for you, take as long as possible to collect it. This method is based upon the fact that they do not use registered mail to send invoices. If one considers the past history of all traffic fines received, these all arrive by normal mail to prevent the high costs of registering letters.

2) Should SANRAL surprisingly, after a lengthy period, comply with (1) above, then send them a second CERTIFIED letter by registered post, requesting that they send you a photograph for every single gantry you have passed under for that month, proving that is was your car you that is being invoiced.( Perfectly legal and reasonable request from any motorist ). Such photographs obviously, you must request to also be sent by registered mail to ensure delivery. Also takes weeks to collect such registered mail, should it in the unlikely event, ever be posted. Explain that you have heard that certain motorists are using illegal false number plates and you therefore require the photographs to prove that it is definitely your cat that is being charged. Such a request could takes months to be settled, or if you are very fortunate, never. Consider the sheer volume of requests they should by now have received. If their system is not set up for such requests, which I am almost positive is the case. (Hope I am not wrong on this one) Can you imagine the difficulties and problem they will have, in trying to MANUALLY comply with the thousands upon thousands of similar requests received. To be really difficult, how about querying some of the less clear photographs taken at night. Even if they come back to you asserting that the photographs are in their opinion, all perfectly readable, further delays will have been successfully applied.

3) Should SANRAL try to speed up communications by requesting your e-mail or fax number, or send you SMS’s, or trying direct contact by phone, I have considered very simple ways of negating each of such requests. I am not mentioning any of these methods, as I want to keep this article 100% above board, and free of any questionable actions.

4) In the unlikely event that all the above somehow be resolved, than obviously pay, but only for that particular month under review.

5) Start the whole lengthy procedure all over again, 4-6 weeks after the termination of the second month’s toll fees due. Continue with the same, for every individual month that follows.
 
Thing is we need more info like this. A lot of us are closet rebels, wishing to do our share of civil disobedience but also sheite scared of any legal repurcussions. Say what you want but we are not the unemployed with nothing to lose, in my line of work clients usually request some sort of security/police clearance so I simply cannot afford any judgements or a record unless I actually desire to join the ranks of the unemployed.

I personally will not get an e-tag as I'm not willing to sign into agreement with Sanral's T's & C's. Thus I am discriminated against and have no choice but to resist.

Info like this helps as it shows how to get max resistance without unnessesary falling foul of the authorities.
 
the other big one - and I've posted it before:
Hold protest marches - with convoy - on the highway in accordance with the Regulation of Gatherings Act:
s13(2) suspends the operation of a section of the old Road Traffic Act which has carried over to the general proposition of a rules of the road - a compelling argument that a vehicle in such a convoy is exempt from e-tolling therefore exists.
If they are billing you unlawfully or send you an invoice it gives rise to query making their life difficult and bringing the system into congestion.
 
evilstebunny said:
Thing is we need more info like this. A lot of us are closet rebels, wishing to do our share of civil disobedience but also sheite scared of any legal repurcussions. Say what you want but we are not the unemployed with nothing to lose, in my line of work clients usually request some sort of security/police clearance so I simply cannot afford any judgements or a record unless I actually desire to join the ranks of the unemployed.

I personally will not get an e-tag as I'm not willing to sign into agreement with Sanral's T's & C's. Thus I am discriminated against and have no choice but to resist.

Info like this helps as it shows how to get max resistance without unnessesary falling foul of the authorities.
Click to expand...

I mentioned in a previous post how important it is to WIDELY disseminate information on how to legally delay payment for as long as possible, otherwise there will not be enough non-compliance to make the system collapse.

Nobody bothered to reply to my post - I hope they will not realise the importance of this only when it is too late.
 
madrynn said:
A method of legally delaying e-toll payments is extremely simple, yet completely successful, and wholly legal.
Click to expand...

Usually I'd say way too much effort, blah blah blah.. but so often we complain about, and experience, terrible service from, and are on the receiving end of, complete bureaucratic incompetency.. this method just uses that to the consumers advantage and for that reason alone, I believe I may support it.
 
madrynn said:
In the unlikely event that all the above somehow be resolved, than obviously pay, but only for that particular month under review.

5) Start the whole lengthy procedure all over again, 4-6 weeks after the termination of the second month’s toll fees due. Continue with the same, for every individual month that follows.
Click to expand...

This all sounds good on paper except for a small problem. What you will end up paying is probably going to be 10+ times more than you would have paid in the first place, if not more for the following reasons:

1) You won't be subject to the cap if you don't have an e-tag.
2) You will lose the benefit of the early payment discounts.

From what I have seen in the newspapers, if the amount for paying your toll will be something like X. Lets assume that to reach the R350 cap you will need to do 40 trips. If you do more than that you are already over what you would have paid in the first place. Secondly, if you don't have an e-tag then the amounts are a lot higher. This could be 4 or 5 times the normal rate. I am not sure of the amounts but I seem to remember seeing that they would be much higher. You will end up giving them as much after 3 months as you would have after 10 months. My guess is that they are going to go after a few big fish in the beginning and then let the effects of that trickle down.
 
blunomore said:
I mentioned in a previous post how important it is to WIDELY disseminate information on how to legally delay payment for as long as possible, otherwise there will not be enough non-compliance to make the system collapse.

Nobody bothered to reply to my post - I hope they will not realise the importance of this only when it is too late.
Click to expand...

The problem is that it's an uneven tax. Joe the sales person is going to be paying much more than the granny who drives once or twice on the highway. Big businesses will obviously sign up immediately and rather fight in court. Smaller businesses would be advised to do the same. Without an e-tag the prices are much much higher and not subject to the cap so a small business with 10 vehicles could find themselves on the end of a bill for R50k-R100k. That's obviously worth SANRAL pursuing. It will then just trickle down until they reach Joe public who drives to and from work every day. The problem is that by the time they reach Joe public, he will probably owe R50k instead of R4200 with an e-tag. R50k is worth going after.

The whole "civil disobedience" concept only works if no one pays and they win the subsequent court cases. No one paying is obviously out of the window with big companies paying which probably accounts for 40% of their expected revenue out of the gate. That leaves the court case. If SANRAL lose in court then everyone will benefit anyway and people will in all likelihood get back their money. I personally think people are taking a huge chance by not paying as the consequences are severe for not doing so. the cap combined with the penalties for not having an e-tag and paying on time make those consequences much higher than people think. Can you imagine losing your house or car because you took a stand and didn't pay your e-toll fees.
 
Abe said:
This all sounds good on paper except for a small problem. What you will end up paying is probably going to be 10+ times more than you would have paid in the first place, if not more for the following reasons:

1) You won't be subject to the cap if you don't have an e-tag.
2) You will lose the benefit of the early payment discounts.

From what I have seen in the newspapers, if the amount for paying your toll will be something like X. Lets assume that to reach the R350 cap you will need to do 40 trips. If you do more than that you are already over what you would have paid in the first place. Secondly, if you don't have an e-tag then the amounts are a lot higher. This could be 4 or 5 times the normal rate. I am not sure of the amounts but I seem to remember seeing that they would be much higher. You will end up giving them as much after 3 months as you would have after 10 months. My guess is that they are going to go after a few big fish in the beginning and then let the effects of that trickle down.
Click to expand...

I cannot afford to pay the non-tagged rates, I can hardly afford to pay the capped rate, I cant afford legal costs, I will thus have to leave home much earlier and have to use back routes...
 
So we expect a press release early Wednesday morning the following Monday from SANRAL declaring the e-Tolls a major success! Probably written already with all the numbers and stats [-]made up[/-] calculated.
 
Abe said:
The problem is that it's an uneven tax. Joe the sales person is going to be paying much more than the granny who drives once or twice on the highway. Big businesses will obviously sign up immediately and rather fight in court. Smaller businesses would be advised to do the same. Without an e-tag the prices are much much higher and not subject to the cap so a small business with 10 vehicles could find themselves on the end of a bill for R50k-R100k. That's obviously worth SANRAL pursuing. It will then just trickle down until they reach Joe public who drives to and from work every day. The problem is that by the time they reach Joe public, he will probably owe R50k instead of R4200 with an e-tag. R50k is worth going after.

The whole "civil disobedience" concept only works if no one pays and they win the subsequent court cases. No one paying is obviously out of the window with big companies paying which probably accounts for 40% of their expected revenue out of the gate. That leaves the court case. If SANRAL lose in court then everyone will benefit anyway and people will in all likelihood get back their money. I personally think people are taking a huge chance by not paying as the consequences are severe for not doing so. the cap combined with the penalties for not having an e-tag and paying on time make those consequences much higher than people think. Can you imagine losing your house or car because you took a stand and didn't pay your e-toll fees.
Click to expand...

How would you lose your house?
 
Abe said:
This all sounds good on paper except for a small problem. What you will end up paying is probably going to be 10+ times more than you would have paid in the first place, if not more for the following reasons:

1) You won't be subject to the cap if you don't have an e-tag.
2) You will lose the benefit of the early payment discounts.

From what I have seen in the newspapers, if the amount for paying your toll will be something like X. Lets assume that to reach the R350 cap you will need to do 40 trips. If you do more than that you are already over what you would have paid in the first place. Secondly, if you don't have an e-tag then the amounts are a lot higher. This could be 4 or 5 times the normal rate. I am not sure of the amounts but I seem to remember seeing that they would be much higher. You will end up giving them as much after 3 months as you would have after 10 months. My guess is that they are going to go after a few big fish in the beginning and then let the effects of that trickle down.
Click to expand...

Which is why my etag spent some time in the microwave. This way, the tag doesn't work but I'm still entitled to the discounts, thus with every bill sent to my I can dispute it and say that cash wasn't deducted off my tag and will request them to send pictures as I will have the tag fitted to my windshield..
 
GhostSixFour said:
Which is why my etag spent some time in the microwave. This way, the tag doesn't work but I'm still entitled to the discounts, thus with every bill sent to my I can dispute it and say that cash wasn't deducted off my tag and will request them to send pictures as I will have the tag fitted to my windshield..
Click to expand...

Neat !

That could cause some disruption !
 
GhostSixFour said:
Which is why my etag spent some time in the microwave. This way, the tag doesn't work but I'm still entitled to the discounts, thus with every bill sent to my I can dispute it and say that cash wasn't deducted off my tag and will request them to send pictures as I will have the tag fitted to my windshield..
Click to expand...

Won't work. They'll just charge you standard rate. In their T&C it says they're not responsible for losses due to malfunctioning tags.
 
Also by having an e-tag in your car you have agreed to their T&Cs which a lot of us vehemently oppose.
 
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