Mecca mosques were built incorrectly - report

[Morgoth]

I bet 90% of the people against Islam don't have a clue what the Muslim religion is about.

 

[Balstrome]

You did not answer my question, which was why is it undesirable? I suggested that this is because of envy of those who partake. Get a friend, get lucky, and you will not worry about it.

You mentioned STD's, emotional abuse... Is it your claim that Islamic views reduce these, or that any religion that has these views, reduces these social ills? If so, produce evidence to show this.

 

[Frankie]

Actually we do criticise the terrorists, theres a facebook group and alot of letters and alot of leaders have tried to keep their distance... maybe open your eyes, just because you have seen or heard about it doesnt make it true.

"Facebook Vs the violent protest of the Mohammed cartoons.

Youve heard whats been preached at the Mosque? Since when? Any particular mosque? The Mosque I frequent tend to be about community issues like drugs, drag racing and girls wearing tight revealing clothes...

How about the Finsbury Park mosque?

Actually they have to document it, they do get into alot of altercations when doing their work, they always get locked up and branded as helping the "terrorists"..

 

[Frankie]

I got to love how people generalize Muslims and call themselves Christians XD

Who did this?

 

[Frankie]

I bet 90% of the people against Islam don't have a clue what the Muslim religion is about.

This guy, and many others like him, do a good job of enlightening us.

 

[Morgoth]

This guy, and many others like him, do a good job of enlightening us.

that guy is a idiot, anyone who generalized a religion cannot be ten four between the ears and anyone who believes him well, you can make your own assumptions from that :>

 

[mac_mac74]

that guy is a idiot, anyone who generalized a religion cannot be ten four between the ears and anyone who believes him well, you can make your own assumptions from that :>

like he is the only muslim thug?

i suppose he was doing it in the name of Alah?

 

[Morgoth]

like he is the only muslim thug?

i suppose he was doing it in the name of Alah?

It still does not justify generalizing? Lets see how many people were killed in the name of christ? how many idiots still believe in martyrdom?

There will always be religious extremest in the world, it still doesn't justify demonizing everyone who believes in that particular religion,

 

[mac_mac74]

It still does not justify generalizing? Lets see how many people were killed in the name of christ? how many idiots still believe in martyrdom?

There will always be religious extremest in the world, it still doesn't justify demonizing everyone who believes in that particular religion,

Dude, hear me out for 1sec.
(small change of topic, but you will get my drift)

419 scams are the order of the day right, Nigerian drugs dealers are everywhere right. Now whenever you hear of a drug bust and you see a black person involved, you generally think of a Nigerian.
or if someone mentions a Nigerian, dont tell me the thought of a "skelm" hasnt cross your mind.
As you rightfully mentioned, generalisation, its human nature to do it.

If you go back and read my text at the start of this discussion, i mentioned abt muslims being so verbal, however you dont often hear them talking out about terrorism, you just dont hear it.
Now, apply the same example as the Nigerian one above, ask the average person whats the first thing that comes to your mind with the words suicide bomber or terrorism - and they more than likely will say muslim.

I dont hate muslims , im stating a point - if yyou dont get my point at this stage, then i give up.

 

[Morgoth]

Dude, hear me out for 1sec.
(small change of topic, but you will get my drift)

419 scams are the order of the day right, Nigerian drugs dealers are everywhere right. Now whenever you hear of a drug bust and you see a black person involved, you generally think of a Nigerian.
or if someone mentions a Nigerian, dont tell me the thought of a "skelm" hasnt cross your mind.
As you rightfully mentioned, generalisation, its human nature to do it.

If you go back and read my text at the start of this discussion, i mentioned abt muslims being so verbal, however you dont often hear them talking out about terrorism, you just dont hear it.
Now, apply the same example as the Nigerian one above, ask the average person whats the first thing that comes to your mind with the words suicide bomber or terrorism - and they more than likely will say muslim.

I dont hate muslims , im stating a point - if yyou dont get my point at this stage, then i give up.

I see your point of view but it is still stupid =). Anyways your not the first one to do so, but what I don't get is that some people justify religions blasphemy such as hate speak against Muslims on generalization, but when it comes to racial boundaries then it is unacceptable? Bloody hell when will people make up their minds.

 

[mac_mac74]

I see your point of view but it is still stupid =). Anyways your not the first one to do so, but what I don't get is that some people justify religions blasphemy such as hate speak against Muslims on generalization, but when it comes to racial boundaries then it is unacceptable? Bloody hell when will people make up their minds.

well we have such racial diverty in this country, why should we get bogged down with religious diversity. I may dislike the muslim religion, but i put aside **** like that , i have muslim work colleagues and we get on extremely well, i never raise religious discussions, because i prefer to keep the relationship the way it is and i feel a lot of people have similar feelings.
After all you might think im an ugly **** because i have dark hair and a surfer tan, but on a personal level you may think im a great person.

Its the image you portray, if u are going to walk around thinking nobody likes you because you are muslim and complain abt it, then people will start to dislike you. Suck it up and enjoy life for what it is, we arent on this planet for very long.

 

[NaushadE]

You did not answer my question, which was why is it undesirable? I suggested that this is because of envy of those who partake. Get a friend, get lucky, and you will not worry about it.

You mentioned STD's, emotional abuse... Is it your claim that Islamic views reduce these, or that any religion that has these views, reduces these social ills? If so, produce evidence to show this.

Corinthians 7:2 - clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful. Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality.

Bible - Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1, 6:13,18, 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7

Torah - “there shall not be any promiscuous men among the Jewish people; nor shall there be any promiscuous women among the Jewish people” (Deut. 23:18)

for those of you who need definitions -
Immorality: 1. The quality or condition of being immoral.
2. An immoral act or practice.

Promiscuous: 1. Having casual sexual relations frequently with different partners; indiscriminate in the choice of sexual partners.

So i guess "he who split the sea" and "he who hung on a cross" were also given the same "wrong" rule from the creator of the universe? interesting.. makes you think doesnt it. 3 religions being WRONG and you being right.


because something isnt convenient to your lifestyle doesnt make it wrong.

my question was left unanswered. whats makes you so special that i should answer yours? btw.. i am not claiming anything. all i said was before you make sweeping statements with no factual basis first do some research instead of making crude statements. what do i have to be envious about? I challenge you to compare the HIV rates in the arab world to that of the so called western world, ie. europe, america, africa.

 

[lived666]

Its the same way I don't like Asparagus, I just don't like it, thats it really

maybe if you put some garlic and butter on the Muslims you know you will like them better?

back on topic, me thinks the imaginary Allah/God/Spaghetti/Jhova/Francis doesn't give two hoots which direction the buildings are facing......

 

[Frankie]

that guy is a idiot, anyone who generalized a religion cannot be ten four between the ears and anyone who believes him well, you can make your own assumptions from that :>

That one you call an idiot is a Muslim cleric that drew a large following, and he is not the only such cleric imprisoned in the UK, so it's certainly not an isolated incident and understandable if the general public use such examples to form their opinions of the people and their religion that these clerics represent.

And this idiot still holds the post of Australia's most senior Muslim cleric (mufti).

A Muslim cleric's claim that women who do not wear the veil are like 'uncovered meat' who attract sexual predators sparked outrage around Australia yesterday.

Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali, the nation's most senior Muslim cleric, compared immodestly-dressed women who do not wear the Islamic headdress with meat that is left uncovered in the street and is then eaten by cats.

He made these comments, effectively condoning the rape of young girls by a gang of his followers.

 

[Frankie]

its a siege mentality. Btw i didn't see any muslims involved in the bombing of british base in ireland recently. Neither did i see any muslims involved in the spain bombings.

How wud u react if any time u flew, pass thru immigration and they pull u out for a full search? Its degrading. I've had it done to me on a flight from frankfurt to london. I eventually told the guy either u gimme a reason why u making me go thru the scanner five times or arrest me. He let me go. When i was taking the eurotrain from paris to london. At passport control the guy asked me why i wanna go to london. I asked him why do to ppl go to london. Its becos saa don't fly to paris! The person in front of me. Also a south african. Just stamped and go thru. No twenty questions there. And I don't even have a beard. Like i said. Siege mentality kicks in when ur religion gets attacked. Its human nature. The same way jewish ppl defend themselves when the iranian president says the holocaust didn't take place. Its just defence of ur faith nothing more.

So you've experienced profiling, which is par for the course in many spheres of life - security services and marketing uses it for obvious reason.

Just like the rest of us, the Taliban, on hearing the news of the attack on the immigration centre in New York, first thought that it was one of their kind and claimed responsibility to score a little publicity.
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=165928

 

[Frankie]

Neither did i see any muslims involved in the spain bombings.

Are you referring to this?

2004 Madrid train bombings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11_March_2004_Madrid_attacks

The official investigation by the Spanish Judiciary determined the attacks were directed by a Muslim al-Qaeda-inspired terrorist cell although no direct al-Qaeda participation (only "inspiration") has been established. Spanish Muslims who did not carry out the attacks but who sold the explosives to the terrorists were also arrested.

Madrid Train Bombing

The March 11 suspects — both dead and alive — were mostly young Muslim men from a hodgepodge of different backgrounds who allegedly acted out of allegiance to al-Qaida to avenge the presence of Spanish troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, although Spanish investigators say they did so without a direct order or financing from Osama bin Laden's terror network.

 

[tcltk]

Strange that you dont give the full story:

The Land of Israel in Qur’anic exegesis

This plan for ideologization of Islam as an instrument of political fight finds nevertheless a relevant obstacle on its way, since a comparative analysis of Qur’anic and Torah sources reveal an agreement on the point that the link existing between Children of Israel and Land of Canaan is not depending on any kind of project of colonization, usurpation of the territory or abuse of human beings, but directly on God Almighty’s will, toward which we are asked to submit. As we learn form Jewish and Islamic Scriptures God, through His chosen servant Moses, decided to free the offspring of Jacob from slavery in Egypt and to constitute them as heirs of the Promised Land. This is described in the in the Glorious Qur’ân as

We favoured you over other living beings. (7)

Whoever should claim that Jewish sovereignty over Palestine is something recent and depending on political plots would actually be denying the history of revelation and prophecy, as well as the clear teaching of the Holy Books. Unfortunately, ideological fundamentalism and political inexperience led some inadequate leader to inspire an attitude of walls against walls and chauvinistic rivalries. From King Feysâl of Iraq up to King Abdullâh I of Transjordan, Islamic voices orientated toward inter-Abrahamitic brotherhood were silenced, and irrational hostility toward Zionism was introduced as supposed necessary ingredient of both Arab nationalism and pseudo-Islamic radicalism.

The Qur’ân relates and confirms the words by which Moses ordered the Israelites to conquer the Land that was in the hand of the seven Canaanite nations:

And [remember] when Moses said to his people: "O my people, call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when he produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave to you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin." (8)

Moreover – and those who try to appropriate Islam as a weapon against Israel always forget to take this point in due account – the Holy Qur’ân does not hint to exile as a permanent condition for the Jewish people, but on the contrary announces a re-establishment of the House of Israel in the Land before the last judgment, where it says:

And thereafter We said to the Children of Israel: "Dwell securely in the Promised Land." And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd.

To remember the historical milieu compels every sincere observer to admit that there is no necessary connection between al-Mi‘râj and sovereign rights over Jerusalem since, in the time when the Prophet (sall-Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) consecrated the place with his footprints on the Stone, the City was not a part of the Islamic State – whose borders were then limited to the Arabian Peninsula – but under Byzantine administration. Moreover, although radical preachers try to remove this from exegesis, the Glorious Qur’ân expressly recognizes that Jerusalem plays for the Jewish people the same role that Mecca has for Muslims. We read in Sûrah al-Baqarah:

...They would not follow thy direction of prayer (qiblah), nor art thou to follow their direction of prayer; nor indeed will they follow each other’s direction of prayer... (13)

All Qur’anic annotators explain that "thy qiblah" is obviously the Ka‘bah of Mecca, while "their qiblah" refers to the Temple Site in Jerusalem. To quote just one of the most important of them, we read in Qâdî Baydâwî’s Commentary:

Verily, in their prayers Jews orientate themselves toward the Rock (sakhrah)

Actually - it really isn't a big deal. There's a few degree's tolerance with regards to that. I wonder if anyone knew that you can find the direction of the qiblah using the stars. Also- to someone who mentioned israel. Initially the first qibla was musjid-al-aqsa in jerusalem, occupied palestine. It was later moved to makkah when the prophet s.a.w embarked on the hijra.

 

[krycor]

The direction thing ALSO happen here, check any old mosque(50+ yr old) in cpt and u will find the carpets line alignment + where shiekh leads is not in the center/straight with architecture.

The sexual thing is one of many issues i just don't understand why people don't get that they practice their religion very loosely. ALL three religions prohibit it, yet how many christians open practice a contrary lifestyle? jews lesser and muslims even lesser so(though even this is changing as groups integrate and communities intertwine more than was before 1994).
The western way is often altering religion to suit their lifestyle, this is why the west will ALWAYS have issues with muslim religion, it doesn;t adjust for your whims and fancies.