Mickey Arthur resigns as SA coach

[Pegasus]

I tend to agree. And to add to that, I dont think a top batsman(or bowler) should be captain. It has hardly ever worked, except in Australia's case?

So just a keeper who can't bat then?

 

[Devill]

I tend to agree. And to add to that, I dont think a top batsman(or bowler) should be captain. It has hardly ever worked, except in Australia's case?

Australia under The Don?

Indians? Pakistanis? Sri Lankans? Even the Windies......

 

[milomak]

So just a keeper who can't bat then?

hahahaha

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Australia under The Don?

Indians? Pakistanis? Sri Lankans? Even the Windies......

Yes, Tendular and Lara are good examples...removed as captains coz they their batting was suffering.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Who ever said they were? Ntini was kept in the team for one to many tests not because of skin colour but because of experience and loyalty.

People wanting to see racists behind every bush and tree are worse than rasists themselves.

Under what rock have you been hiding? Every second comment made when a person of colour is selected is that the results are gonna go down the tubes....and that it's coz of quotas.

 

[Abe]

Who ever said they were? Ntini was kept in the team for one to many tests not because of skin colour but because of experience and loyalty.

People wanting to see racists behind every bush and tree are worse than rasists themselves.

At the time Polly was dropped, he had a better bowling record over the previous 12 months then Ntini and a better batting record over the previous 12 months then Prince. Make of it what you will.

The latest news is that everyone was fired because they did not select the mandatory 1 black African. I am not talking about people of colour here. The complaint is that they played Wayne Parnell instead of Lonwabo Tsotsobe. Tell me again that colour has nothing to do with it. Go on, I dare you.

 

[OzzieCapie]

Wouldn't know if colour is the issue...has anyone confirmed that or is it just hearsay?...it could equally just be results and the fact that coaches eventually have to move on.

At the time Polly was dropped, he had a better bowling record over the previous 12 months then Ntini .... Make of it what you will.

Only marginally so against weaker opposition...but making of it what one wants you could also remember that Pollock was replaced by Morkel knocking on door.

On the other hand de Wet went none-for in 1st innings and got one spell of wickets in second prior to replacing Ntini...and is 28 with a dodgy back which lasted half a game.

You can make stats say anything...but the bottom line is that the team, barring few stand-outs , is not performing and rightly the management ought to be held accountable...get the results and no one cares about quota or no quota.

I posted on another thread a while back that SA only had a few 'real' internationals, with the rest (batsmen mostly) with such basic technical flaws that they usually start off ok, but get exposed by good bowlers who prey on that.
All related to footwork really...think Amla's movement and playing accross stumps, Duminy's back foot, Prince, AB (good eye helping him...no footwork) etc

That is a fundamental issue that needs ironing out right at the start.

A counter example is Hussey...started off brilliantly, went through bad patch but he is able to get out of that because he is a great example of proper footwork...guys without that basic footwork do not get out of slump once exposed unless they change the way they play (Steve Waugh was example).

IMO...they should start by looking at coaching at lower levels....you can only get so far on enthusiasm and national pride.

 

[Devill]

Yes, Tendular and Lara are good examples...removed as captains coz they their batting was suffering.

Yes ponting, Ul Haq, Dilshan for a couple of games and I do mean Jayawardene is just plain old average

O wait Viv Richards, Gary Sobers, Chris Gayle....

Want me to tell you about the other countries?

Under what rock have you been hiding? Every second comment made when a person of colour is selected is that the results are gonna go down the tubes....and that it's coz of quotas.

Please quote those comments that says we will lose as a result of a quota selection.

 

[stefan9]

Bookies fancy gazza. Don't think its possible till after wc 2011.

Bookies fancy Kirsten
2010-01-27 17:26
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Garrin Lambley

Cape Town - Following the shock resignation of Proteas coach Mickey Arthur, leading UK bookmakers, Sky Bet, are offering odds on his replacement.

Former Proteas opener and current Indian coach, Gary Kirsten, has been installed as the 7/4 favourite with another former SA opener, Kepler Wessels, and current Proteas psychologist, Jeremy Snape, next best at 3/1.

Former South African fast bowler Corrie van Zyl, who has been installed as the interim coach to lead the team on their next assignment in India, is 4/1 to take over the role on a permanent basis.

Odds on the next permanent South Africa coach:

Gary Kirsten 7/4
Kepler Wessels 3/1
Jeremy Snape 3/1
Corrie van Zyl 4/1
Duncan Fletcher 5/1
Graham Ford 14/1

 

[Stephen]

At the time Polly was dropped, he had a better bowling record over the previous 12 months then Ntini and a better batting record over the previous 12 months then Prince. Make of it what you will.

The latest news is that everyone was fired because they did not select the mandatory 1 black African. I am not talking about people of colour here. The complaint is that they played Wayne Parnell instead of Lonwabo Tsotsobe. Tell me again that colour has nothing to do with it. Go on, I dare you.

Yes I agree with Abe's post here, I am still waiting for certain people to reply to it. Yes it was on poor results but also because of not enough Black Africans in the side. The dropping of Ntini ruffled to many feathers

 

[WonderBob]

What? People are suggesting, or wanting, Warne or Waugh to coach SA!?! If CSA went this route they would need to realise that they would have the majority of the South African public in uproar and threatening not to support the team. Even with success these two would find it difficult to get support from the public at large.

Are you serious? Would you stop supporting the team if we get an Australian or other foreign coach? why?

I'm sure no Indians stopped supporting their team when Kirstin became coach, or Englishmen when Fletcher became coach, or Pakistanis when Woolmer was their coach, or Sri Lankans with Bayliss etc etc.

Why do you suspect we would if they appoint a foreign coach?

Not that either of Warne or Waugh would be good coaches i reckon.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Yes I agree with Abe's post here, I am still waiting for certain people to reply to it. Yes it was on poor results but also because of not enough Black Africans in the side. The dropping of Ntini ruffled to many feathers

I don't dispute that there is pressure to include black players and sometimes these players are not performing. On the other hand, Ntini hasn't been playing much anyway...and I can only assume it's due to non-performance. But there are MANY players that are giving mediocre and inconsistent performances. The captain is just one of them...if he doesn't give a match winning performance, he doesn't perform...PERIOD. And we all know, the match-winning perfomances have been few and far between.

 

[Abe]

Only marginally so against weaker opposition...but making of it what one wants you could also remember that Pollock was replaced by Morkel knocking on door.

The point is that Polly was made to give way for Morkel instead of Ntini who should rightfully have been dropped at that point.

I posted on another thread a while back that SA only had a few 'real' internationals, with the rest (batsmen mostly) with such basic technical flaws that they usually start off ok, but get exposed by good bowlers who prey on that.
All related to footwork really...think Amla's movement and playing accross stumps, Duminy's back foot, Prince, AB (good eye helping him...no footwork) etc

There are some fundamental problems with some of the players. Amla is the first that jumps out. I also don't believe that Arthur is the best coach for us. Someone like Jennings, who could dominate Smith, would be a far better coach.

I just have a problem with the politics. People can say what they like but race is a big factor. The same group of people who fired Arthur and the selectors for not having enough black africans in the side are the same ones who have about 10 black africans in total across all of the top level provincial sides. They are not doing the work at grass roots and then try to quota in the results.

 

[Stephen]

QUOTE=ThatOtherGuy;3573340]I don't dispute that there is pressure to include black players and sometimes these players are not performing. On the other hand, Ntini hasn't been playing much anyway...and I can only assume it's due to non-performance. But there are MANY players that are giving mediocre and inconsistent performances. The captain is just one of them...if he doesn't give a match winning performance, he doesn't perform...PERIOD. And we all know, the match-winning perfomances have been few and far between.[/QUOTE]

Sigh maybe Smith should leave and go play for England or Aus. He seems to be more respected there than here [

 

[Abe]

I don't dispute that there is pressure to include black players and sometimes these players are not performing. On the other hand, Ntini hasn't been playing much anyway...and I can only assume it's due to non-performance. But there are MANY players that are giving mediocre and inconsistent performances. The captain is just one of them...if he doesn't give a match winning performance, he doesn't perform...PERIOD. And we all know, the match-winning perfomances have been few and far between.

I would not have any problem with them getting rid of Smith (would prefer it if they did), or anyone else for that matter who doesn't perform. There do, however, seem to be two standards in play. Players of colour not performing get a certain amount of leeway (Amla is an example, he had a string of 11 matches where he averaged around 20 without being dropped) and white players are not (look at McKenzie who was dropped after one average series in Aus).

 

[WonderBob]

I would not have any problem with them getting rid of Smith (would prefer it if they did), or anyone else for that matter who doesn't perform. There do, however, seem to be two standards in play. Players of colour not performing get a certain amount of leeway (Amla is an example, he had a string of 11 matches where he averaged around 20 without being dropped) and white players are not (look at McKenzie who was dropped after one average series in Aus).

Where did Smith not perform (to the point that he needs to be dropped) recently?

 

[Abe]

Where did Smith not perform (to the point that he needs to be dropped) recently?

Between October 2005 and December 2007 he averaged only 30. Thats 20 matches and 38 innings. We lost 8 games and won 9 in that time. I am sure some other players we cut during that run. Of late, his performances seem to be better but I can almost guarantee that if any other player had run of 20 matches and 38 innings where they averaged only 30 as a front line batsmen they would be gone.

 

[stefan9]

Between October 2005 and December 2007 he averaged only 30. Thats 20 matches and 38 innings. We lost 8 games and won 9 in that time. I am sure some other players we cut during that run. Of late, his performances seem to be better but I can almost guarantee that if any other player had run of 20 matches and 38 innings where they averaged only 30 as a front line batsmen they would be gone.

AB De villiers averaged 27 in 20 matches between 2006 and 2007, was also not dropped. Smith is hardly the only player who has special protection.

 

[OzzieCapie]

....I can almost guarantee that if any other player had run of 20 matches and 38 innings where they averaged only 30 as a front line batsmen they would be gone.

Ali Bacher averaged 32 in his whole career and was a SA Cricket hero...still is.

The point is that Polly was made to give way for Morkel instead of Ntini who should rightfully have been dropped at that point.

Abe , sorry to pick on you twice in one post, but you should do your homework thoroughly before launching into a race debate.

In Pollocks last 12 months of test cricket he took 36 wickets and in the same matches Ntini took 47. Prior to being dropped Pollock was then bowling first change...so it was very clear whose position was under threat from Morkel.

cheers

 

[stefan9]

I think it's called "form". it happens to all players (except the Don).
Kallis carried us through those times.

It's rare that the whole top 6 average over 50 for a whole season, not sure its even happened.

Agreed. Merely point out to Abe that smith is hardly the only player who has gone through a loss of form and kept his place in the side. You stick with your class players even when they go through dips in form, especially your batsmen.