Microsoft or Apple?

I was thinking along the same lines icyrus...

Maverick : I doubt you actually use or understand Microsoft products in a technical manner...
 
milomak said:
You do know that Red Hat charges for support to cover such costs?
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Yes, that's just my point. If there are enough Linux specialists out there, then organizations that use Linux wouldn't require support from companies like Red Hat. That would cause a decrease in Red Hat revenue, until it's not viable for Red Hat to develop software or they'll have to change their business model, eg. revert to revenue from proprietary products.
 
Isn't it some sort of record to be called an idiot before you've cracked 10 posts?:)
 
ToxicBunny said:
I was thinking along the same lines icyrus...

Maverick : I doubt you actually use or understand Microsoft products in a technical manner...
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You doubt? :eek: Either you've made a comment without reading my post or you don't know what's an MCPD.

Allow me to enlighten you -- I'm a Microsoft Certified Professional Developer. So I may have used a Microsoft product or two in a technical manner once or twice. Althought I doubt that I have as much experience as you since I've only been programming since the age of 13 and I've used Pascal on DOS, C/C++ on UNIX, Java on Linux, VB6 on Win98, Win2K, WinXP, and C# on WinXP, WinVista.

Do I understand Microsoft products in a technical manner?
 
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Maverick_Nick said:
Yes, that's just my point. If there are enough Linux specialists out there, then organizations that use Linux wouldn't require support from companies like Red Hat. That would cause a decrease in Red Hat revenue, until it's not viable for Red Hat to develop software or they'll have to change their business model, eg. revert to revenue from proprietary products.
Click to expand...

you miss the point of why companies pay for support. accountability. companies want a number to phone now when something goes wrong. and if that support is not forthcoming, remedies that can be followed.
 
Maverick_Nick said:
We're in 2008, and you're using office 95 documents? Well if that's your case for open source -- enjoy mate.
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Yes, because believe it or not, there are VERY good reasons why one would need data that was compiled in 1995! If I create a document, today, in some Microsoft format, will I be able to open it in 13 years' time? I seriously doubt it!

Are you just trying to be a troll or what?! Just because information is old, doesn't make it any less valuable. And, besides, by your stupid argument, you stated that propriety = longetivity. Which of course, it does not.
 
Maverick_Nick said:
You doubt? :eek: Either you've made a comment without reading my post or you don't know what's an MCPD.

Allow me to enlighten you -- I'm a Microsoft Certified Professional Developer. So I may have used a Microsoft product or two in a technical manner once or twice. Althought I doubt that I have as much experience as you since I've only been programming since the age of 13 and I've used Pascal on DOS, C/C++ on UNIX, Java on Linux, VB6 on Win98, Win2K, WinXP, and C# on WinXP, WinVista.

Do I understand Microsoft products in a technical manner?
Click to expand...

I can do sums on a casio calculator and I've got a gold medal from a box of Coco-pops. Does that count as qualifications too?:D
 
milomak said:
you miss the point of why companies pay for support. accountability. companies want a number to phone now when something goes wrong. and if that support is not forthcoming, remedies that can be followed.
Click to expand...

QFE

Big companies outsource support.
 
Maverick_Nick said:
You doubt? :eek: Either you've made a comment without reading my post or you don't know what's an MCPD.

Allow me to enlighten you -- I'm a Microsoft Certified Professional Developer. So I may have used a Microsoft product or two in a technical manner once or twice. Althought I doubt that I have as much experience as you since I've only been programming since the age of 13 and I've used Pascal on DOS, C/C++ on UNIX, Java on Linux, VB6 on Win98, Win2K, WinXP, and C# on WinXP, WinVista.

Do I understand Microsoft products in a technical manner?
Click to expand...

Does that make me a super professional, then? I've done all that, plus more.Want to kiss me?
 
BobJones said:
And a whole bunch of them just work by plugging them into a mac, no drivers required? Care to name some of the products you are referring to?
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Hey pea brain... every hardware device that interacts with your OS requires a driver. The driver is the intermediary between the hardware and the software. You're talking about plug-and-play. Windows has that too. Plug-and-play uses generic drivers. You can plug in a graphics card without installing any drivers and it'll work, but the quality will be crappy.
 
EtienneK said:
Yes, because believe it or not, there are VERY good reasons why one would need data that was compiled in 1995! If I create a document, today, in some Microsoft format, will I be able to open it in 13 years' time? I seriously doubt it!

Are you just trying to be a troll or what?! Just because information is old, doesn't make it any less valuable. And, besides, by your stupid argument, you stated that propriety = longetivity. Which of course, it does not.
Click to expand...

You perhaps didn't visit a Microsoft site, where you'll find utilities to upgrade old formats to new formats. So to answer your question about being able to open a document 13 years from now -- it's yes. It's called legacy support, and Microsoft has been offering it since the dawn of time and will continue doing so.
 
EtienneK said:
QFE

Big companies outsource support.
Click to expand...

I work for a big company that has inhouse specialists. Look at the IT infrastructure of some of the largest companies in the world, like Goldman Sachs, Merryl Lynch, etc. They all have inhouse infrastructure support and developers.

Things that don't require a lot of attention are generally outsourced. Though the outsourcing trend seems to be slowing on the basis of consultants charging ridiculous hourly fees, where it's cheaper for an organization to hire someone fulltime.
 
BobJones said:
I can do sums on a casio calculator and I've got a gold medal from a box of Coco-pops. Does that count as qualifications too?:D
Click to expand...
Yes it does. In fact you're just a prison sentence away from becomming the president of SA.:D
 
Maverick_Nick said:
Hey pea brain...
Click to expand...

Is that a qualification sorta like MCPD?:p

Maverick_Nick said:
every hardware device that interacts with your OS requires a driver. The driver is the intermediary between the hardware and the software. You're talking about plug-and-play. Windows has that too. Plug-and-play uses generic drivers. You can plug in a graphics card without installing any drivers and it'll work, but the quality will be crappy.
Click to expand...

So "crappy", thats like a brand is it? The kind you are going to mention that doesn't work with Macs right?:rolleyes:
 
Maverick_Nick said:
You perhaps didn't visit a Microsoft site, where you'll find utilities to upgrade old formats to new formats. So to answer your question about being able to open a document 13 years from now -- it's yes. It's called legacy support, and Microsoft has been offering it since the dawn of time and will continue doing so.
Click to expand...

So MS products "don't just work". You need arb utilities to make them work.

Just face it, buddy. Data kept in propriety formats is a bad thing. Open is good. MS is trying to be more "open" with their new Open XML document format, but as I stated before, it's not really that open.

Lots of governments are moving to the ODF document format. Our South African government now requires that all their documents be stored in either HTML (websites), ODF (for documents that need to be edited) or PDF (for documents that don't need editing). All 3 of the mentioned file formats have well publicized documentation on how they work. They are also free to use by anyone, with no licensing costs associated with them.

You will start seeing more and more companies, individuals and governments move to more open standards when storing data. This will ensure that information is easily accessible in the future.

Microsoft is of course fighting against this open movement, but what can it do? The only thing it can do is to open up its own formats (.DOC for example), but let's be serious, that'll never happen.
 
Maverick_Nick said:
I work for a big company that has inhouse specialists. Look at the IT infrastructure of some of the largest companies in the world, like Goldman Sachs, Merryl Lynch, etc. They all have inhouse infrastructure support and developers.

Things that don't require a lot of attention are generally outsourced. Though the outsourcing trend seems to be slowing on the basis of consultants charging ridiculous hourly fees, where it's cheaper for an organization to hire someone fulltime.
Click to expand...

I work for one of the largest companies in South Africa. Even though we have in-house specialists, we still make big use of consultants and outsourcing companies. Let's face it: IT is a scarce skill. It is very difficult for companies to hire the right people for the right job, nowadays.

If something goes wrong, it is much easier to just call in the vendor to come and fix it.
 
EtienneK said:
So MS products "don't just work". You need arb utilities to make them work.

Just face it, buddy. Data kept in propriety formats is a bad thing. Open is good. MS is trying to be more "open" with their new Open XML document format, but as I stated before, it's not really that open.

Lots of governments are moving to the ODF document format. Our South African government now requires that all their documents be stored in either HTML (websites), ODF (for documents that need to be edited) or PDF (for documents that don't need editing). All 3 of the mentioned file formats have well publicized documentation on how they work. They are also free to use by anyone, with no licensing costs associated with them.

You will start seeing more and more companies, individuals and governments move to more open standards when storing data. This will ensure that information is easily accessible in the future.

Microsoft is of course fighting against this open movement, but what can it do? The only thing it can do is to open up its own formats (.DOC for example), but let's be serious, that'll never happen.
Click to expand...

MS isn't trying to be more open. They've just created OOXML because it's been requested. Companies have the tendency to listen to their customers. The only reason that they're pushing OOXML over ODF is because ODF doesn't support a lot of Microsoft Office features. Incase you haven't noticed, you can store your documents in an XML format as now, though your Office 95 may not have the functionality. Microsoft isn't fighting against anything, they're simply trying to reach compromise on a format. It's kind of like the GPL V3 debacle.
 
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