Mobile myth busters

"They encourage consumers to write to regulator Icasa and/or the Department of Communications to protest against the high cost of cellphone interconnections."

Roffel!!!!!

/me thinks any mail received by Icasa or the DOC probably goes straight to file 13
 
Just a quick calculation... Thanks to game...

Nokia 1110 R229 + mandatory R199 starter pack or R428 for the phone

Same phone on a weekender with no itemised or anything else includes a R3000 game voucher.

So in Total you get...

R3000 + R428 (cost of phone out of contract) = R3428

Total cost of the weekender package...

R135/m * 24 = R3240.

Now for the kickker, at 12.5% interest on a 2 year loan of R3000 (the game vouchers) you pay R406.13.

The lesson, If you're buying from game, I't cheaper to take out a new contract than to use you're credit card if you intend to settle over 2 years!

And you get a phone and a whole lotta off-peak minutes to boot.

D
 
Nothing particularly insightful that they've written there, I'm sure most people already know this.
 
Yes, most of the things are stuff which I'm moaning about - things like giving the users an extra 10 minutes when those 10 minutes aren't going to be used...

...instead of lowering their prices.

I shall write a complete rant someday and post it for world+dog to see...
 
damian24 said:
Just a quick calculation... Thanks to game...

Nokia 1110 R229 + mandatory R199 starter pack or R428 for the phone

Same phone on a weekender with no itemised or anything else includes a R3000 game voucher.

So in Total you get...

R3000 + R428 (cost of phone out of contract) = R3428

Total cost of the weekender package...

R135/m * 24 = R3240.

Now for the kickker, at 12.5% interest on a 2 year loan of R3000 (the game vouchers) you pay R406.13.

The lesson, If you're buying from game, I't cheaper to take out a new contract than to use you're credit card if you intend to settle over 2 years!

And you get a phone and a whole lotta off-peak minutes to boot.

D
Click to expand...

Well, if ur figures are correct, then even if credit card interest is not a factor, then getting the weekender contract from Game is hectically worthwhile!

Damn, I shoulda looked at that when my dad was on his domestic spending spree a while back! :eek:

This just highlights how prepaid subscribers are screwed over the most, if they can offer deals like this...:sick:
 
ryan411 said:
Well, if ur figures are correct, then even if credit card interest is not a factor, then getting the weekender contract from Game is hectically worthwhile!
Damn, I shoulda looked at that when my dad was on his domestic spending spree a while back! :eek:
Click to expand...

Yeah, I took out a Casual Chat 100 contract and got a Nokia 6020 with that and R2900 in vouchers. Needed to spend some cash at Game anyway. Doing the math shows I am effectively paying R24 per month for 24 months for the phone and 100 off peak minutes per month.
The phone is ONLY used for lengthy off peak calls. They're not getting a cent out of me for peak calls.

Woolworths, Makro and now Spar also offer similar deals.
 
We are cautioned to check that unused monthly bundled minutes can "roll over" to the next month.
However, and without having read Goldstuck's book, I also want to point out further proof that the networks really ARE using the bundled (so-called "free" minute) packages to really steal from their customers. Think about it: you don't get the bundled minutes for free in any way shape or form - you pre-pay for those minutes (which implies a cashflow bonus to the network already) - i.e. those are minutes you have actually PAID FOR - so how in good faith could they ever be made to expire?!

About 4 years ago Vodacom (dunno what MTN does but it's probably the case that they colluded on this little swindle) very quietly changed their rules on how bundled minutes rolled over.
For many years they tracked your unused bundle minutes in one big bundle, and allowed the bundle to inflate to a maximum 6 times the monthly bundle. E.g. if you were on a Talk1000, you could allow your unused minutes to accumulate up to 6000 minutes. For argument's sake, if you say went overseas for 6 months i.e. didn't use any minutes, then returned and started using exactly your bundled 1000 minutes coming online every month, then your accumulated 6000 minutes would stick around until you started exceeding your 1000 bundled minutes per month and started dipping into the bundle.
The change they made was this: they started tracking your bundle minutes in separate, named monthly bins with a moving 6 month window. Plus, you now had to use up your CURRENT minutes first before you could start using your bundled minutes AND you had to use up the old accumulated minutes in REVERSE time order - e.g. let's say you had 100 minutes left over in each of your last six months (July to December 2006), then you'd have to use up all of Jan 2007's minutes, then Dec 06 minutes, then Nov 06, etc etc. If you didn't manage to work your way back to July 2006's minutes, then you would lose ALL your July 2006 minutes at the end of this month.
So of course they in effect made it MUCH harder to catch up on accumulated minutes, and MUCH MORE likely that their victims would lose minutes that they have ALREADY PAID FOR IN FULL.

There's just no nicer way to put it: theft, plain and simple.
 
most people know they are being rob by the cell companies but feel poweless to do something about it,icasa is useless afterall.
 
Vodacom as bad as Telkom then...

spacemuis said:
We are cautioned to check that unused monthly bundled minutes can "roll over" to the next month.
However, and without having read Goldstuck's book, I also want to point out further proof that the networks really ARE using the bundled (so-called "free" minute) packages to really steal from their customers. Think about it: you don't get the bundled minutes for free in any way shape or form - you pre-pay for those minutes (which implies a cashflow bonus to the network already) - i.e. those are minutes you have actually PAID FOR - so how in good faith could they ever be made to expire?!

About 4 years ago Vodacom (dunno what MTN does but it's probably the case that they colluded on this little swindle) very quietly changed their rules on how bundled minutes rolled over.
For many years they tracked your unused bundle minutes in one big bundle, and allowed the bundle to inflate to a maximum 6 times the monthly bundle. E.g. if you were on a Talk1000, you could allow your unused minutes to accumulate up to 6000 minutes. For argument's sake, if you say went overseas for 6 months i.e. didn't use any minutes, then returned and started using exactly your bundled 1000 minutes coming online every month, then your accumulated 6000 minutes would stick around until you started exceeding your 1000 bundled minutes per month and started dipping into the bundle.
The change they made was this: they started tracking your bundle minutes in separate, named monthly bins with a moving 6 month window. Plus, you now had to use up your CURRENT minutes first before you could start using your bundled minutes AND you had to use up the old accumulated minutes in REVERSE time order - e.g. let's say you had 100 minutes left over in each of your last six months (July to December 2006), then you'd have to use up all of Jan 2007's minutes, then Dec 06 minutes, then Nov 06, etc etc. If you didn't manage to work your way back to July 2006's minutes, then you would lose ALL your July 2006 minutes at the end of this month.
So of course they in effect made it MUCH harder to catch up on accumulated minutes, and MUCH MORE likely that their victims would lose minutes that they have ALREADY PAID FOR IN FULL.

There's just no nicer way to put it: theft, plain and simple.
Click to expand...

WTF!! :mad:

The method u say VC is using is total bulldung! Their 'generosity' in allowing one to accumulate 6 months worth of 'free' minutes is actually just a ploy then to trick certain people into letting their minutes expire whilst under the false impression that the old method was still in play.

It would be bad enough if they were only using the named monthly bins, as u put it, to limit the 6 month accrual of minutes, but to have to use up your current monthly bin of minutes before using up the previous monthly bins in order of newest to oldest is just plain daylight robbery!!!

MTN's system of 2 month rollover is therefore more fair, because u know u have to use up your minutes within a 2 month period.

But as u say, these are minutes we have paid for so they should not expire in the first place...

I don't have itemised billing, so I probably would have been clueless if u had not warned about this. I have been wondering for a while now why I don't seem to be accruing as many minutes as I should be, when I check my 'free' minutes balance! :mad:

P.S. Thanks for the heads up, spacemuis!
 
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I emailed customer care and this is the response:
"Thank you for your e-mail.Kindly be advised that you are correct in saying that the maximum free minutes you are able to accumulate is 720. Should you not use your free minutes, you will lose the first month''s minutes that was carried over, and receive the new month''s 120 minutes. Should you have any further queries, please contact us via e-mail at customercare at@ vodacom.co.za.
Warm Regards
Brent Jones
Email Contact Centre"

Who is your source spacemuis? Not that I trust customercare that much anyway...
 
@ajax: Thanks, u saved me mailing them (CC) for now. Am waiting on feedback from a personal contact at VC but the response might be a bit delayed.

Am going into paranoid mode for tracking my minutes (without itemised billing) for now...

Really is crazy if they using a LIFO (last in first out) system for 'free' minutes.

Had a look at the vodacom.co.za site and could not find jack w.r.t. their method of rollover.
 
Vodacom's 'new' multi-bundle carryover methodology

I complained on HelloPeter to get clarification on how minutes carry over. This confirms what spacemuis said originally and shows how pathetic information from customer care can be (case in point Mr Brent Jones)! Perhaps we should get a petition going and maybe MyADSL can even do an article and poll on it?

Date: 14-Mar-2007 08:41
Subject: Bucket Minutes.doc
Good day Ryan,

I do apologise for the attachment not displaying in the email I have
sent yesterday.

The change from the old system to the new one was made in order to
accommodate amongst others, subscribers wishing to migrate downward and
still be able to carry over their unused minutes as well. The way the
minutes were used previously was changed from the old "carry over
approach" to a new "multi bundle approach". The bundled minutes will be
maintained per month instead of just one total bundle.
The new multi bundle logic change was introduced on 01 November 2003 and
the downward migration change became effective as of 01 December 2003.
The new "Multi Bundle" method will apply to any subscribers when a
change is made to the contract package i.e. Migration or Upgrade.

1) The previous "Carry Over" method

The previous carry over logic for telephony bundled minutes stated that
a subscriber may have accumulated up to five times his monthly bundled
minutes of the current offer plus his current month's allowable minutes.
Any minutes in excess of the maximum minutes allowed in total was
forfeited at the start of the new month.
Example: A subscriber on a Talk 500 S Offer may only have accumulated
2500 minutes (5 X 500 minutes of a Talk 500 S Offer). Therefore the
maximum amount of minutes that a Talk 500 S subscriber could have in
total at any time was 3000 minutes, which was made up as follows:

The maximum accumulated minutes allowed of 2500 minutes plus the current
month's 500 minutes

When a subscriber who was on the carry over method used their bundled
minutes the call usage was deducted from the total pool of minutes that
the subscriber had available in the bundle.

2) The new "Multi Bundle" method

The new Multi bundle method for telephony bundled minutes states that a
subscriber will be able to accumulate five months unused bundles plus
his current month's allowable minutes. The unused minutes for each
month will be maintained in separate monthly bundles. Any unused
minutes that the subscriber has accumulated in the sixth month will be
forfeited.
The subscriber will first use the current months "bucket" of bundle
minutes. Once all the minutes in the current month's "bucket" has been
used up, the accumulated monthly minutes of the "bucket" 5 months prior
to the current month (month -5) will be used. Should the bundled
minutes of month-5 "bucket" be used up, then the accumulated minutes of
the "bucket" 4 months prior to the current month (month-4) will be used.
Thereafter the minutes of the 3rd, 2nd and 1st months "bucket" ( i.e.
months -3, -2 and -1) will be used. In summary the bundle minutes of
the current month must first be used up, then the accumulated bundle
minutes of the oldest months bucket will be used up in the following
order 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st months "buckets".

Explanation:
1. The subscriber will first use up the current month's bundled minutes
(Month X in table 1)
2. In the case of the subscriber using more than the current month's
(Month X) bundled minutes, the accumulated minutes of the fifth month
prior to the current (Month -5) will be used. Thereafter the
monthly-accumulated minutes of Month -4, -3, -2 and -1 will be used.
3. On the first day of Month X the total number of unused minutes
accumulated in the sixth month prior to the current month (month -6),
will lapse.

Please note that the new Multi bundling rules only applies to the
telephony, data and fax services and not to the SMS or GPRS bundled
service offerings.

We trust that you find the above in order.

Kind regards
Email Consultant:Hellopeter
Click to expand...

Hi Cindy,

Thank you for the information on the new multi-bundle method.

Whom can I lodge a formal complaint with? From a subscriber perspective, the 'new' method is patently unfair. I would venture a guess that the majority of Vodacom subscribers are unaware of this practice and they would be outraged if made aware.

MTN does not use this methodology. With them, the oldest minutes get consumed first. Even though they only allow a maximum of 2 month's minutes at any one time, at least I know where I stand with them, instead of being fooled into thinking that my minutes are carrying over.

With Vodacom's 'new' multi-bundle method of carryover, one could potentially accumulate 720 minutes, and from month 7 onwards, if they started using 120 minutes (on the weekender package) every month, systematically start to lose all of their accumulated carryover minutes for the preceding 5 month period.

If anything, the oldest minutes should be consumed first. These are minutes that subscribers have paid for in advance, and I do not believe that Vodacom has the right to take these minutes away, especially in such an insidious manner.

Regards, Ryan

Edit: Apparently this info is somewhere in one of the past issues of Vodacom's magazine, but I know I don't have time to read a magazine dedicated to singing Vodcom's praises... :sick:
 
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Monthly minutes

Just switch to Virgin Mobile. No stories like the rest. You never lose your minutes.

If your minutes gets to much they contact you and suggest ways on bringing the built-up minutes down, but still you don't lose a single minute. I will never agree with any explanation given by Vodacom and or MTN on how they manage the minutes....at the end of the day it is minutes for which I paid hard earned money.

Viva Virgin Mobile !!! Show them how to treat customers.
 
Syndyre said:
Nothing particularly insightful that they've written there, I'm sure most people already know this.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But that is what Goldstuck does ( and his World Wide Worx ) - repeat what everyone already knows as if it were stunning news. Twit(s).
 
To view your multi bundle / carry-over info

Login at http://www.vodacom4me.co.za/

Then under My Account and Balances click on »Click here for full balances overview

You should see something like the example below in table/neater format:
Bundled free minutes
Weekend Everyday + Multi Bundle
Month Threshold Used Bundle Remaining Bundle
May 120 min 00 sec 47 min 30 sec 72 min 30s
April 120 min 00 sec 120 min 00 sec 0 min 00s
March 120 min 00 sec 77 min 00 sec 43 min 00s
February 120 min 00 sec 120 min 00 sec 0 min 00s
January 120 min 00 sec 62 min 00 sec 58 min 00s
December 120 min 00 sec 15 min 30 sec 104 min 30s
Total Available 278 minutes 00 seconds
Forfeit Total Bundle Forfeited
Click to expand...
 
Misleading description for using bundled minutes?

Is it just me or is the description below misleading? This is from their website and I see no mention that one has to use the current months minutes before being able to use the oldest minutes?

http://www.vodacom.co.za/packages/using_free_minutes.jsp
The packages offer subscribers a predetermined amount of inclusive minutes that can be used at the beginning of the month or the date of subscription. Subscribers will only be able to use the bundled minutes within 30 days or when the bundled minutes have been depleted.

Any unused minutes will remain in separate monthly “buckets” for up to five consecutive months. These minutes will be used in order from the oldest to the newest “bucket”. Any minutes left in the oldest “bucket” will be forfeited on the 1st day of the 6th month, as illustrated opposite.

Free minutes can be used for national and data calls as well as calls to voicemail and mobile faxes. Calls excluded from the free minutes include data calls to numbers starting with 082 23, 082 24 and 082 28; directory enquiries: 110/1023; international calls and premium rated numbers such as competition lines.
Click to expand...
 
Goldstuck and Ambrose also dispel the advertised myth that the mobile operators want to reward consumers for their loyalty. In almost every case, they say, it's to a consumer's advantage to take out a new contract rather than to renew an existing one.
Click to expand...

Does anyone know whether it's possible to open a new account and still retain one's number? ie a migration to the same network?
 
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