More car problems because of technology

[rpm]

More car problems because of tech

Owners of cars that were new or redesigned for the 2011 model year are reporting more quality problems, partly because of glitches with the navigation screens, voice-activated systems and other technology packed into their dashboards.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Not surprised.

Give me a cheapy car without any electronic goodies, and it'll last far longer than any of these new fancy-smancy models....

My Corolla 1996 (1.6 GLe) have electronics - but this is for the engine. The rest of the car is fairly standard. And it's still going strong.

Most of these 1400 Nissan bakkies still is going strong, despite being more than 10 years old or so.

 

[midnightcaller]

Interesting stats.
On the last paragraph of the article.
"when u buy a brand new car, is there such a thing as an average problem"

 

[crackersa]

i believe the new technology is needed in the cars as this helps further advancement in technology. in other words, no desire for new things means nothing gets better

 

[Paul_S]

Give me a cheapy car without any electronic goodies, and it'll last far longer than any of these new fancy-smancy models....

Most of the new "cheapy" cars are loaded with "fancy-smancy" features.
Even a lot of the entry level hatchbacks have iPod and Bluetooth integration.
As long as the ECU is separate from the frills in the dashboard I have no problem with loading as much tech as possible.

I'm not opposed to using tech in the engine management department either.
A lot of 2.0L powered vehicles get better fuel consumption than your 1996 Corolla ever will and at R10 per litre the savings can add up really fast.

My Corolla 1996 (1.6 GLe) have electronics - but this is for the engine. The rest of the car is fairly standard. And it's still going strong.
Most of these 1400 Nissan bakkies still is going strong, despite being more than 10 years old or so.

There are also plenty of "high-tech" BMW's and Mercedes from the 1990's still going strong so what is your point?

 

[Ancalagon]

We had rapid technological progress in the 70's, 80's and even the 90's, so the recent trends are nothing new. Remember, back in the day, there was no turbo charging, fuel injection, multi link suspsension, seat belt pretensioners, crumple zones, airbags or ABS. Those were all available in the late 80's or early 90's. The difference with today is that back then, they would actually test things properly. These days, because cars are designed with such short lives, its not worth putting in the time to increase the quality and reliability of a car. It will barely affect sales, and you will make more money if you sell them a new car in 3 years time. The money car manufacturers pay out in recalls and repairs under warranty probably amount to less than if the cars were designed properly, again, especially considering their short lifespan.

So, its not technology that is the problem, it is the implementation of the technology that is the problem. It is possible to have advanced technology and also have reliability. However, it takes time and money, and the manufacturers have decided its not worth it.

 

[Rouxenator]

This seems to be very American based with regards to brands like GMC, Cadilac, Lincoln, Accura and so one.

If you look at operations like Ford Europe (based in Cologne, Germany) and GM Europe (Rüsselsheim, Germany) you will see its an entirely different picture. The quality in cars like the Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo have improved at a steady pace and so have the competing models from GM/Opel. Recently launched Hyundais like the i20 (Rüsselsheim, Germany) are also regarded as very high quality cars.

But still, interesting to see the America trends.

 

[CrazYmonkeY159]

Not surprised.

Give me a cheapy car without any electronic goodies, and it'll last far longer than any of these new fancy-smancy models....

My Corolla 1996 (1.6 GLe) have electronics - but this is for the engine. The rest of the car is fairly standard. And it's still going strong.

Most of these 1400 Nissan bakkies still is going strong, despite being more than 10 years old or so.

It doesnt really say anything about the reliability of the overall car, more of a reliability of the consumer electronics in the cars are apauling

when they say "problems" im guessing theyre talking about tech related ones or?

 

[OverKill69]

I know where the OP is coming from...


It has to do with maintenance in my opinion.

My 2001 Hilux 4x4 Raider

Headlight... I'm looking at R120 or so.
Brake light is an old standard bulb available anywhere... same with indicators and so on...
No electric windows...
Car has over 200 000kms on it and is still in good running order because I've maintained it correctly even after driving it hard (heavy loads almost every day, towing, 4x4ing, wading, and so on...)
Had to replace 1 or 2 clutches... maybe 3 batteries... some suspension and steering work to the front (control arm and CV joint replacement) and an exhaust manifold gasket had to be replaced at a stage.

My 2006 Hilux 3.0 D4D Raider

Electric windows malfunction
Aircon temperature switch malfunction
Vents are all not 100% coz they're now these delicate little flap thingies
Major engine repairs due to manufacturer defect (main bearing bolt wasn't tightened correctly at engine assembly took 80 000kms to come loose)
airbag indicator light malfunction
3 clutches... but i think that's due to the heavy ass trailor
Bespoke radio/CD player always breaks... doesn't eject CDs... cant put my own one in... grrrrrrrr
(mechanically its all good - the only things that consistently go wrong are with the "improvements" to the previous model - ie elec windows)

My 2006 Mercedes E-Class.

Some brake light LEDs in the boot cost over R1500
Headlight refit made me want to cry... thank goodness the maintenance plan covered it... The "follow the wheel" motors went out of whack)
ECU chip was "updated" at a service and now the car performs worse and consumes more.
Had to replace 3 batteries. 2 main and 1 auxiliary...
windows have malfunctioned
Onboard dashboard computer malfunction
Seat motor switch broke
The car cannot remain stationary for more than a week or the battery runs flat.
simple services are never simple and can cost over R3500 now that the motor-plan is up... and they want to change brake pads every service LOL! even the REARS! the service guy couldn't understand why I was laughing at him.
I can't check oil... computer does it... BUT I CANT SEE THE DIPSTICK MYSELF!!!! I don't trust the computer with my friggen oil level!
CD changer has malfunctioned
only 120 000kms on it
EDIT: Just remembered!!!!! WINDSCREEN REFIT!!!! ZOMFG!!!! over R11 500 insurance claim!!!
Which reminds me the window wipers sometimes come on by themselves even though there's not a cloud in the sky!!!

And that's off the top of my head!!!!


The more they put into cars... the more thing there are to break and the less easy it is for ME to fix them myself!!!

 

[Archer]

I can't check oil... computer does it... BUT I CANT SEE THE DIPSTICK MYSELF!!!! I don't trust the computer with my friggen oil level!

But you trust the electronic read out for your fuel level? And speed? And oil temp? And water temp?

 

[OverKill69]

But you trust the electronic read out for your fuel level? And speed? And oil temp? And water temp?

All of those are non critical...

I run out of petrol... i have AA
I go too fast... i get a fine
I run out of oil????? eina....

EDIT:
Engine temp and water temp are old established sensors dating back to the 40s... I understand the technology in temperature probes because I've replace some before. And I've used them in other applications. In varsity we had to write a whole thingie on them... they've been around for years and they have been tried and trusted
engine oil level checkers are new and I'm not sure how they work.

It's reassuring that I take the dipstick out myself and check that the level is right... I do it with all my cars.

 

[Archer]

All of those are non critical...

I run out of petrol... i have AA
I go to fast... i get a fine
I run out of oil????? eina....

Water temp is non critical? You dont need it to cool your engine? You dont mind your engine seizing up which will render it useless? Interesting

 

[OverKill69]

Water temp is non critical? You dont need it to cool your engine? You dont mind your engine seizing up which will render it useless? Interesting

Read "edit" in my 2nd post.

As an aside.
My mom's 1992 Mercedes 300SE had a water temperature indicator malfunction. They either on or off or completely haywire...

The probes work like a thermocouple. 2 different metals with different expansion properties are used (the distortion is measurable). or... a metal is used and the resistivity is known at different temps...

So they malfunction in a predictable fashion... either stuck on min... or max... never on the optimal operation temperature for you to happily drive around until failure.
This is part of the design feature
I know coz I had to write a report of these things to form part of a mech eng design project.

predictable failure is an important design feature... something that I don't think is evident in software.

 

[Paul_S]

Water temp is non critical? You dont need it to cool your engine? You dont mind your engine seizing up which will render it useless? Interesting

Hehe!
We as consumers are really to blame because we keep placing a preference on vehicles with all the gadgets.
If we stopped buying "fancy" vehicles and picked the ones with hardly any gadgets the manufacturer's would quickly adapt.

People want more power and torque so the manufacturer's develop variable valve timing (VVT, CVVT, VANOS, etc.) or slap on a turbo charger system.
People want better fuel consumption so the manufacturer's raise the compression ratio, design fancy piston tops and cylinder heads and add direct fuel injection.
People want smooth gear changes on automatic gearboxes so out come the fancy dual clutch gearboxes.
People want to be able to plug in their iPod or use a Bluetooth headset so they add some more electronics.
All of the above add complexity and need electronics and firmware/software to manage.

 

[d0b33]

And that's off the top of my head!!!!


The more they put into cars... the more thing there are to break and the less easy it is for ME to fix them myself!!!

It's a racket I tell you.

 

[Plaasjapie]

Sometimes less is more. There must be a reason why the cheap, no frills, eastern imports of bakkies and cars are so popular these days. I myself drive an old 1987 Hilux double cab. I can check the oil myself and service and fix most things on it too. no electric windows that break and cost R3000 to fix like my Mercedes Vito's, no door handles that brake, no brake pad sensors that fall off, no computer malfunctions etc, etc.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Sometimes less is more. There must be a reason why the cheap, no frills, eastern imports of bakkies and cars are so popular these days. I myself drive an old 1987 Hilux double cab. I can check the oil myself and service and fix most things on it too. no electric windows that break and cost R3000 to fix like my Mercedes Vito's, no door handles that brake, no brake pad sensors that fall off, no computer malfunctions etc, etc.

That's what I was trying to say. Sometimes less is more.

 

[BobsLawnService]

As cars get more complex they get more points of failure and it becomes harder to fix anything yourself. We can only hope that they become more reliable as well which seems to be the case for the most part.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

Also these days they cram the engine into a much smaller space than before, so you're not able to get to some parts (alternator, water pump etc) easily without stripping off something or the other...

 

[Necrite]

Hehe!
We as consumers are really to blame because we keep placing a preference on vehicles with all the gadgets.
If we stopped buying "fancy" vehicles and picked the ones with hardly any gadgets the manufacturer's would quickly adapt.

People want more power and torque so the manufacturer's develop variable valve timing (VVT, CVVT, VANOS, etc.) or slap on a turbo charger system.
People want better fuel consumption so the manufacturer's raise the compression ratio, design fancy piston tops and cylinder heads and add direct fuel injection.
People want smooth gear changes on automatic gearboxes so out come the fancy dual clutch gearboxes.
People want to be able to plug in their iPod or use a Bluetooth headset so they add some more electronics.
All of the above add complexity and need electronics and firmware/software to manage.

Actually one can handle the boost and fueling for a "turbo system", as you put it, just fine on a Carb fed car with no engine management software...It's just more of a hassle.