feo
Honorary Master
They don't know that.
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More Police State
- Thread starter kilo39
- Start date
Yes buddy I'm working towards a perfect world: crime, etc is a failure of the state. Their failure should not be an excuse for control.As long as you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear
Technology and methods that keep track of all things created and made is a reality that will never go away. Whether it is good or bad depends on who's at the controls ... who's the ultimate user ... and what this entity's motives are. In a real working democracy society elects those at the controls and get rid of abusers [but is there really such a thing as a real democracy?].
SA is invested with crime ... and something must be done about it ... so tracking people and things are essential here [imo]. Privacy [imo] comes second for now.
The important thing is ... who's guarding the guardian.
"The government says the measures are necessary to tighten security in Japan, which was alarmed by allegations that French Muslim militant Lionel Dumont entered on a forged passport and raised money for extremists." is not sufficient excuse to impose measures on FREEDOM of TRAVEL.
It is a ploy to impose greater restrictions on intellectual thought and FREEDOM of ASSOCIATION.
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Crime is a human failure that we are all guilty of to some degree. The state is not responsible for my choices and actions ... I am. They may push and temp me to make choices that suits a particular agenda but it's still up to me to stand my ground/resist ... or accept. It's in line with your earlier comments ... freedom of thought and action.
McSack
Executive Member
Yoh. My gym has taken my picture and has fingerprint access. What do you think they are trying to control? (other than my rapidly expanding wasteline
)And that is exactly how the bullsh#t spreads through daily life; so you agree photos and fingerprints etc are a method of control?!Yoh. My gym has taken my picture and has fingerprint access. What do you think they are trying to control? (other than my rapidly expanding wasteline
FREEDOM of TRAVEL
FREEDOM of ASSOCIATION
FREEDOM of THOUGHT
feo
Honorary Master
Yup, but in case you haven't noticed, people tend to abuse the freedom afforded to them e.g. some people think freedom of speech gives them the right to say what they like to others.
There is no measure: the notions of democracy, intellectual freedom, etc are enshrined in the ideals of the western world: ALL these measures are impacting on that."Perfect" measure against what?
LoneGunman
Expert Member
"..crime, etc is a failure of the state. Their failure should not be an excuse for control."
thats where we differ perhaps - I see the State (and 'Government') as inherently a failure of democracy. And control and crime, are merely symptoms of the actual disease - namely the existence of 'the State' itself, in all its violent, brutal, corrupt inefficiency and sense of self-importance.
Remove the Government, minimalize it as far as possible to having no far-reaching controls at all, over citizens and their lives, and have the citizens themselves, behave with responsibility.
'Government' as such, is generally based on the idea that citizens are children, who should be controlled. 'Government' itself has spread the fake idea that IT is somehow important to maintaining control and is 'necessary'.
The truth is the opposite. Citizens can and should control themselves, as mature, decent human beings.
En route to reaching this situation, civil society has very simple and nicely lethal ways of eliminating those who want to cause harm to others and disrupt the society in general - without abdicating responsibility to jackbooted thugs and corrupt scum in power, who have made the civil unrest itself (as in SA) by their inaction and corruption.
Fear and terror are being used as techniques of political and social control in SA. Look at those high walls of yours, kind of makes you unwilling to get out onto the street and protest about anything, doesn't it?
Quite rapidly, you'll reach a stage in society where those remaining alive, understand the adult concepts of 'personal responsibility' - and live together peacefully.
"Freedom GIVEN by someone or some authority, is no freedom at all". Freedom is TAKEN, by the individual, from those who want to withhold it, in the guise of 'Government'.
thats where we differ perhaps - I see the State (and 'Government') as inherently a failure of democracy. And control and crime, are merely symptoms of the actual disease - namely the existence of 'the State' itself, in all its violent, brutal, corrupt inefficiency and sense of self-importance.
Remove the Government, minimalize it as far as possible to having no far-reaching controls at all, over citizens and their lives, and have the citizens themselves, behave with responsibility.
'Government' as such, is generally based on the idea that citizens are children, who should be controlled. 'Government' itself has spread the fake idea that IT is somehow important to maintaining control and is 'necessary'.
The truth is the opposite. Citizens can and should control themselves, as mature, decent human beings.
En route to reaching this situation, civil society has very simple and nicely lethal ways of eliminating those who want to cause harm to others and disrupt the society in general - without abdicating responsibility to jackbooted thugs and corrupt scum in power, who have made the civil unrest itself (as in SA) by their inaction and corruption.
Fear and terror are being used as techniques of political and social control in SA. Look at those high walls of yours, kind of makes you unwilling to get out onto the street and protest about anything, doesn't it?
Quite rapidly, you'll reach a stage in society where those remaining alive, understand the adult concepts of 'personal responsibility' - and live together peacefully.
"Freedom GIVEN by someone or some authority, is no freedom at all". Freedom is TAKEN, by the individual, from those who want to withhold it, in the guise of 'Government'.
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Jase
Executive Member
A cousin of mine was hijacked not too long ago, his friend was killed in that hijacking. They recovered the vehicle and took prints but the prints do not match any on their record (they suspect that it was a group of non SA, hence no record).
Now if they had recorded all foreign visitors entering our country ... they might of at least had a face to pursue in this case ......
In short, my cousin's friends FREEDOM OF LIFE was taken away by our democracy.
Now if they had recorded all foreign visitors entering our country ... they might of at least had a face to pursue in this case ......
In short, my cousin's friends FREEDOM OF LIFE was taken away by our democracy.
K
kingrob
Guest
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Oh patently nonsense: porous borders likely led to the crime (a failure of state.) Peeps already have passports and will make no difference to crime on this level, ie, failure of government to properly police our borders (and no, that does not include fingerprinting, DNA databases etc.) for those citizens who have NEVER committed a crime.
Ag please. THEY created the desperate times now WE have to deal with the desperate measures?! I don't think so.
They created the desperate times? Failure to resolve the middle east situation (and in fact contribute to it.)
Jase
Executive Member
While I never agreed to our past 'Police State' at least they managed to control our borders to some extent.
Yes, fingerprinting allows our government a measure of control. If you or I commit a crime and leave our grime, we would be traced in no time (Just had to out that in rhyme
).Fingerprinting me, had no effect on my freedom whatsoever, it hasn't affected my thought, my freedom to travel or my freedom of association.
IMO (just my opinion) there is no such thing as true freedom. You will always be restricted in some form or another especially when you are part of a society.
@LG. Democracy is what we got (and what we are likely to have for the foreseeable future.) Infringements on the intellectual right to know and to act of it (for instance to travel) are inherently evil and go against the notions of democracy; keeping our governments and people free to think for themselves is what is at stake, ie, the worst notions of the police state as exported by the bush regime.
How are you going to fingerprint if you have no border control: therefore the whole notion of fingerprinting is bullsh#t. Yes it affects your freedom whether you realise it or not. These measures are simply an extension of all other measures that have been imposed of late: not least wished for control of the internet.While I never agreed to our past 'Police State' at least they managed to control our borders to some extent.
Yes, fingerprinting allows our government a measure of control. If you or I commit a crime and leave our grime, we would be traced in no time (Just had to out that in rhyme
Fingerprinting me, had no effect on my freedom whatsoever, it hasn't affected my thought, my freedom to travel or my freedom of association.
IMO (just my opinion) there is no such thing as true freedom. You will always be restricted in some form or another especially when you are part of a society.
It may have no impact on your thought, travel etc: however the basis is there for it to have such FUTURE impact as may be deemed necessary.
Yes there is true freedom: they are notions that have been central to the extension of the democratic world.
McSack
Executive Member
YES. I cannot get through the gate without pressing my thumb against the reader. Is this a bad thing? No. It prevents those who don't pay their fees or who have been banned from the gym for whatever reason getting access. This results in a more pleasant experience for those of us who abide by the rules of the establishment
NO. I can associate with whoever I want in the gym. (although I have noticed some of the skinny runts moving to the other side of the training area when I get busy with squats and benchpress)
I'm not sure, but i'll be sure to wear my tinfoil-lined scrumcap this evening when I train. Let you know tomorrow if it has foiled
D) the gyms attempts to use my photo and fingerprint to make me do benchpress and squats only when skinnies have moved off to the changerooms.Jase
Executive Member
Time to freely move on that free flowing highway in my free car to my humble abode that I received for free where I shall freely dine and watch E-TV (because it's free!)
Enjoy your night of freedom Kilo39.
Enjoy your night of freedom Kilo39.
Well I'm so glad you lot think this is a joke. Here is an article at random to show not all think it so (ie, a joke.)
The Police State Is Right Here, Right Now