More Police State

[kilo39]

Japan to fingerprint, photograph foreigners
October 04 2007

Tokyo - Japan said on Thursday it will start fingerprinting and photographing foreign visitors from next month under stringent new security measures that have been criticised by civil rights advocates.

The new measures, approved by parliament last year, are expected to take effect from November 20, a justice ministry official said.

All foreigners aged 16 or older will be photographed and electronically fingerprinted when they enter Japan, under a similar system to the one introduced by the United States after the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Permanent residents, including ethnic Koreans born in Japan, will be exempt from the law, along with state guests and diplomats.

Why not simply declare all the people an enemy of the state and make it a de-facto prison planet: I mean that is the reality being imposed by such as blocking the internet (access to information, Europe and Oz) and 'infringements on the person,' ie, declaring us all criminals that need fingerprinting and databasing (I mean why not just barcode us and get it done?)

All stemming from 9/11 and the bush organisation. 9/11 has still to be 'irrevocably' proven, and as this is the key to all the infringements on human rights one would think 'irrevocably' proven it should be.

There is one Axis of Evil: yes, our loss of liberty and democracy.

 

[Moederloos]

It's just a mindset that says everyone is a criminal just beacuse we have to have our fingerprints taken.
When I got my ID book 20 odd years ago, I had my fingerprints taken - WAY before 9/11.
IMHO, the easier it is to catch the oke that steals my car / kills my kid etc, the better - arguments as to "DNA errors" etc aside, as that debate has been had.

I do agree with the other argument re: access to information though.

 

[kilo39]

It's just a mindset that says everyone is a criminal just beacuse we have to have our fingerprints taken.
When I got my ID book 20 odd years ago, I had my fingerprints taken - WAY before 9/11.
IMHO, the easier it is to catch the oke that steals my car / kills my kid etc, the better - arguments as to "DNA errors" etc aside, as that debate has been had.

I do agree with the other argument re: access to information though.

Yes I too have had my fingerprints taken (and have a barcode in my ID book.) But let us remember where this legislation came from: a method of control in what was then a de-facto police state (ie, SA when it was introduced.)

There should be no need to turn us all into criminals, ie, solve the problems that make this so (instead of imposing draconian regulations) that 'impose on the intellectual liberty of people.' Yes fingerprinting and databasing turns us all into chattels instead of the thinking caring human beings we are supposed to be.

 

[Tanarri]

Nothing to worry about if you're not going to cause any trouble. Besides, we know the Japanese: in a few years they will have auto retinal scanners at airports and it all will happen automatically.

 

[McSack]

Unless you plan on doing something unlawful, there's no reason to have a problem with it. At the end of the day it's their country, if anyone has a problem with their laws, don't go there.

 

[Moederloos]

There should be no need to turn us all into criminals, ie, solve the problems that make this so (instead of imposing draconian regulations) that 'impose on the intellectual liberty of people.' Yes fingerprinting and databasing turns us all into chattels instead of the thinking caring human beings we are supposed to be.

I disagree - but then, we are allowed to have opposing views .

The same argument can be used (and probably was used) for surnames, ID numbers, social security numbers, passports, cleft sticks, magic rocks and assorted beads and trinkets.

 

[McSack]

Yes I too have had my fingerprints taken (and have a barcode in my ID book.) But let us remember where this legislation came from: a method of control in what was then a de-facto police state (ie, SA when it was introduced.)

.

Seems like it was a pretty good idea seeing as fingerprinting was retained for our drivers licenses

 

[Ricard]

Why not simply declare all the people an enemy of the state and make it a de-facto prison planet: I mean that is the reality being imposed by such as blocking the internet (access to information, Europe and Oz) and 'infringements on the person,' ie, declaring us all criminals that need fingerprinting and databasing (I mean why not just barcode us and get it done?)

All stemming from 9/11 and the bush organisation. 9/11 has still to be 'irrevocably' proven, and as this is the key to all the infringements on human rights one would think 'irrevocably' proven it should be.

There is one Axis of Evil: yes, our loss of liberty and democracy.

How is this Different from SA's ID Book? ... fingerprinted, Photo - next phase is full Hand-scanning and Retina scanning equipment was tested.

 

[kilo39]

Unless you plan on doing something unlawful, there's no reason to have a problem with it. At the end of the day it's their country, if anyone has a problem with their laws, don't go there.

Yes exactly: tourism has never recovered in the states (and not all due to 9/11, rather the legislation introduced to combat 'terrorism.')

NO. Nothing to do with unlawful: everything to do with freedom of thought and person; treating people like farm stock does not engender this.

 

[kilo39]

How is this Different from SA's ID Book? ... fingerprinted, Photo - next phase is full Hand-scanning and Retina scanning equipment was tested.

Exactly: it is no different. SA ID book was introduced as a method of control in a police state, ergo: those who introduce similar have similar method and similar process.

YES let's turn the world into China.

 

[Ricard]

Exactly: it is no different. SA ID book was introduced as a method of control in a police state, ergo: those who introduce similar have similar method and similar process.

YES let's turn the world into China.

 

[LoneGunman]

Japan's always had a fairly serious protectionist approach with regard to its culture and nation, when faced with 'the outside world'. They'll take what they want from the West, but are very sticky about giving too much to Western companies, for instance. (Something that US companies whine about from time to time).

I think this record keeping is more about maintaining what they see as keeping a sane eye on immigrants and tourists, than any kind of yardstick of general global totalitarianism.

That said, its part of almost all governments structures, everywhere, to gradually try and take as much control of citizens lives as they can get away with, supposedly for 'the common good' (or whatever bogus reason will enable it).

Post 911, the 'terrorists' of Emmanuel Goldstein's evil Eurasian hordes, have provided a wonderful excuse worldwide, for countries to keep chipping away at the individuals rights to privacy from their governments.

 

[kilo39]

Japan's always had a fairly serious protectionist approach with regard to its culture and nation, when faced with 'the outside world'. They'll take what they want from the West, but are very sticky about giving too much to Western companies, for instance. (Something that US companies whine about from time to time).

I think this record keeping is more about maintaining what they see as keeping a sane eye on immigrants and tourists, than any kind of yardstick of general global totalitarianism.

That said, its part of almost all governments structures, everywhere, to gradually try and take as much control of citizens lives as they can get away with, supposedly for 'the common good' (or whatever bogus reason will enable it).

Post 911, the 'terrorists' of Emmanuel Goldstein's evil Eurasian hordes, have provided a wonderful excuse worldwide, for countries to keep chipping away at the individuals rights to privacy from their governments.

No LG. Japan is a primary ally of america (where do you think this database is going to end up if not america?)

And no I disagree: it has never been "all governments structures, everywhere, to gradually try and take as much control of citizens lives as they can get away with," rather: right to privacy, thought and being is what freedom and democracy is based on. These measures are contrary to that (contrary to free thought and thinking.) It is the basis of the western world, ie, freedom of thought and being have led to our advancements (otherwise UK and america would long ago have had a de-facto ID.)

 

[Alan]

Unless you plan on doing something unlawful, there's no reason to have a problem with it. At the end of the day it's their country, if anyone has a problem with their laws, don't go there.

Hmmm what does Kilo get up too? I'd guess the abuse of various mind altering substances, hey Kilo

YES let's turn the world into China.

I thought that's what you wanted

 

[kilo39]

Hmmm what does Kilo get up too? I'd guess the abuse of various mind altering substances, hey Kilo
-
I thought that's what you wanted

No buddy not abuse of various mind altering substances. Where would you possibly get the notion I want to turn the world into China (that's you lot?!)

 

[McSack]

No LG. Japan is a primary ally of america (where do you think this database is going to end up if not america?)

You're a very strange person kilo.

I don't understand why this bothers you. I don't understand how taking your picture and fingerprint impinges on your freedom of thought. i don't understand your fixation with America wanting to get their grubby little paws on your photo and fingerprint

 

[kilo39]

You're a very strange person kilo.

I don't understand why this bothers you. I don't understand how taking your picture and fingerprint impinges on your freedom of thought. i don't understand your fixation with America wanting to get their grubby little paws on your photo and fingerprint

Freedom of thought and travel is bed-rock democracy (nobody should tell me where I can go under what stipulation. What I should think; as that is the only information available.)

Freedom of thought and being is central to democracy (and capitalism.) These measures contradict that.

 

[McSack]

Freedom of thought and travel is bed-rock democracy (nobody should tell me where I can go under what stipulation. What I should think; as that is the only information available.)

Freedom of thought and being is central to democracy: these measures contradict that.

How are they preventing you from going where-ever you want?
How does taking your picture and fingerprint contradict your freedom of thought and being?

 

[BeVonk!]

As long as you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear

Technology and methods that keep track of all things created and made is a reality that will never go away. Whether it is good or bad depends on who's at the controls ... who's the ultimate user ... and what this entity's motives are. In a real working democracy society elects those at the controls and get rid of abusers [but is there really such a thing as a real democracy?].

SA is invested with crime ... and something must be done about it ... so tracking people and things are essential here [imo]. Privacy [imo] comes second for now.

The important thing is ... who's guarding the guardian.

 

[kilo39]

How are they preventing you from going where-ever you want?
How does taking your picture and fingerprint contradict your freedom of thought and being?

Fingerprinting, photos, ID's etc are methods of control eternal. Why should I be controlled if I am a thinking, caring human being?