Motorist kills attacker

Albereth said:
@Dange - sure.

About a week or so ago they had a woman on 702 talking about children and the justice system. I forget the exact ages but she had said that kids under (say 10) have no criminal capacity, between 10 and 14 (say) had no concept of consequence, and from then until early 20's, were incapable of truely understanding all of the consequences. So a 12 year old should understand right and wrong but not that some pee'd off chap is likely to waste you.
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If he was allowed to carry on doing what he was doing it would definitely end in more serious crime or a drug overdose. In this country he would never had been caught which is why I say it was still a preventative measure. It was not fair perhaps, but neither is getting your phone stolen.

And I have to add that at 12 I understood cause and effect pretty well. You do something, something gets done back.
 
R/SGT said:
Do you
Shoot a kid who grabs your bag?
Do you shoot a guy who has just stolen some washing of your line?
Do you shoot a person who shoplifts in your shop?
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In this day and age my answer to all three questions would be a resounding YES!! I've worked my arse off for my "things" and nobody is going to help themselves without me resisting. Foolish as I am, I'll resist, even if it costs me my life, I won't let them just take my stuff. :sick:

If he was 12 and was already committing smash-and-grabs, he would probably have been raping and or murdering by 16. I'm glad he's dead, he is no longer a threat to the rest of the inhabitants of this country.

By 12 I already knew that every action caused a reaction...and I was held accountable for my actions by my parents, my school teachers and my peers, but then South Africa was a very different place when I was 12!
 
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Dange--Russ said:
If he was allowed to carry on doing what he was doing it would definitely end in more serious crime or a drug overdose. In this country he would never had been caught which is why I say it was still a preventative measure. It was not fair perhaps, but neither is getting your phone stolen.

And I have to add that at 12 I understood cause and effect pretty well. You do something, something gets done back.
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Not definitely. Probably, but none of us can see into the future and you can't say definitely.

And being killed after you dropped the stolen goods and are running away is not a preventative measure - it's murder.
 
If the guy that shot the smash and grabber to death ran for president I would vote for him.. one time!!

IMO, at this point we need more people to chase after the criminals and take them out. Awesome stuff!!
 
cath i hear you but im in 2 minds to be honest

firstly he dropped the phone and carried on running, the oke pulled his gun shot him in cold blood which is murder if you ask me

but then i think ppl are sick of the crime and maybe this oke just snapped

all i know is they both in the wrong and one is dead

is throwing your life away and possible prison time worth a cellphone?
if he goes to jail he is going to have it rough once the inmates find out what he did

he is going to see more than one bubba on an hourly basis and will become the jail bitch all for a cellphone
 
killadoob said:
cath i hear you but im in 2 minds to be honest

firstly he dropped the phone and carried on running, the oke pulled his gun shot him in cold blood which is murder if you ask me

but then i think ppl are sick of the crime and maybe this oke just snapped

all i know is they both in the wrong and one is dead

is throwing your life away and possible prison time worth a cellphone?
if he goes to jail he is going to have it rough once the inmates find out what he did

he is going to see more than one bubba on an hourly basis and will become the jail bitch all for a cellphone
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I do think he was wrong, and probably shouldn't have been carrying a gun if he was likely to snap like that (although he probably didn't know he would, himself). I do think he should go to prison.

BUT: I don't think a prison sentence should be what it is these days. It should be a sentence of confinement, but not a sentence of rape and abuse. It doesn't get as much publicity as 'regular' crime, but I really feel that the prisons need to be sorted out.
 
Albereth said:
@Dange - sure.

About a week or so ago they had a woman on 702 talking about children and the justice system. I forget the exact ages but she had said that kids under (say 10) have no criminal capacity, between 10 and 14 (say) had no concept of consequence, and from then until early 20's, were incapable of truely understanding all of the consequences. So a 12 year old should understand right and wrong but not that some pee'd off chap is likely to waste you.
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Let's put this in perspective:
  • Young 12yo boy smashes a car window and steals a cellphone.
  • The victim, of said crime, chases after the perpetrator.
  • The victim of the crime fires a warning shot.
  • The perpetrator stops and drops the cell phone.
  • The victim then shoots the perpetrator dead.

The victim's reaction to the crime was extreme, however this child-criminal chose the wrong mark. How badly would you have felt if said child-criminal's victim had been your 70-80yo mother? Having your car window smashed in and items stolen out of you car is an extreme happening, it provokes an extreme reaction.

Personally I wouldn't give this guy up. I am afraid this sort of crime provokes a visceral reaction in me, to the point that I can justify the execution of a 12yo child ... all I need to do is think of that crime happening to one of my family.

I read that Police spokesperson Captain Mack Mngomezulu on Monday said the boy's mother had been informed of her son's death and police were looking for the motorist, who faces murder charges.. How did this boy's mother not know her son was engaged in criminal activity? Shouldn't she face charges of child-neglect at the very least?
 
The criminals use kids to do these things because nothing happens to them. That is where this situation started.

Personally, I could not live with myself had I shot the boy. If someone (in this case the motorist) can justify this shooting to him or herself, there is a big danger that he/she shoots the neighbor because they just happened to cut him off in traffic.

The first time one does something is always the hardest. After that, it becomes easier.
 
Abe said:
The criminals use kids to do these things because nothing happens to them. That is where this situation started.
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Now something has happened, hasn't it??

Abe said:
Personally, I could not live with myself had I shot the boy. If someone (in this case the motorist) can justify this shooting to him or herself, there is a big danger that he/she shoots the neighbor because they just happened to cut him off in traffic.
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He didn't cut him up traffic did he? He committed a violent act, he broke a car window, reached in and stole a cell phone. Have you ever been a victim of a violent crime??
 
I've got smashed and grabbed once. I didn't want to kill the guy. Beat him up badly, yes. But I would never have killed him.
 
EtienneK said:
I've got smashed and grabbed once. I didn't want to kill the guy. Beat him up badly, yes. But I would never have killed him.
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It's a fine line isn't it, to know precisely the damage a fist will do??

I beat up a chap that tried to mug me ... I think he'd have preferred that I just shot him (he did live,btw).
 
IanC said:
He didn't cut him up traffic did he? He committed a violent act, he broke a car window, reached in and stole a cell phone. Have you ever been a victim of a violent crime??
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But next time someone p#!ses off the same bloke? How difficult would it be for him to shoot someone else next time? He has already crossed that threshold. So now, he "thinks" that his neighbour broke into his car and stole his cell phone because the neighbour has one just like it. Whats to stop him shooting that guy? Don't get me wrong. I am as gatvol as the next guy with crime but there is a line that we cross where we become the criminals. PAGAD springs to mind.
 
Where do you guys draw the line then?

How do you deterine the level of response to crime commited against you?

What would your actions be in the following cases?

You see a black kid jump over you back wall, grab a new tyre and climb back over the wall, Daytime

You see a black male jump over your back wall and break into your car, Night time

Your front door is kicked in by two black males who storm into you house with knives

A drunk white teenager tries to hit you with a pool que

Some drunk white teenagers race away jumping stop streets, robots and nearly causing three accidents.

A group of drunk white men (perlemoen poachers) are beating another white male to a pulp.
 
R/SGT said:
Where do you guys draw the line then?

How do you deterine the level of response to crime commited against you?

What would your actions be in the following cases?

1. You see a black kid jump over you back wall, grab a new tyre and climb back over the wall, Daytime

2. You see a black male jump over your back wall and break into your car, Night time

3. Your front door is kicked in by two black males who storm into you house with knives

4. A drunk white teenager tries to hit you with a pool que

5. Some drunk white teenagers race away jumping stop streets, robots and nearly causing three accidents.

6. A group of drunk white men (perlemoen poachers) are beating another white male to a pulp.
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1. no risk to me & I'm insured
2. scare off with warning shot/no risk to me & I'm insured
3. imminent danger - shoot to kill
4. depends how drunk - walk away or disarm and disable
5. call police
6. fire warning shot
 
bwana said:
2. scare off with warning shot/no risk to me & I'm insured

3. imminent danger - shoot to kill

6. fire warning shot
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2. Charged by police & weapon confiscated.
3. Charged by police & weapon confiscated (murder)
6. Charged by police & weapon confiscated.
 
Abe said:
But next time someone p#!ses off the same bloke? How difficult would it be for him to shoot someone else next time?
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You do keep on about difficulty don't you?

Abe said:
He has already crossed that threshold.
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Yes he crossed a threshold, I don't think it was a particularly good one and it's one we all hope we never have to cross.

Abe said:
So now, he "thinks" that his neighbour broke into his car and stole his cell phone because the neighbour has one just like it. Whats to stop him shooting that guy?
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That's just it, isn't it? He didn't "think" this chap had committed a crime, the chap HAD committed a crime.

Abe said:
Don't get me wrong. I am as gatvol as the next guy with crime but there is a line that we cross where we become the criminals. PAGAD springs to mind.
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Now you're getting at the meat & potatoes of the matter:

  1. How confident are you that the law will give you justice if a crime is committed against you?
  2. How confident are you that if a crime is committed against your person, the perpetrator will be caught and punished?

Do you think that vigilantism is just taking the law into ones own hands? I would submit that vigilantism is more common than you think. Think about the Skielik residents screaming for justice (and the police cordons) before the person charged for it has been CONVICTED. I would submit there is a very fine line indeed between protest and vigilantism.

The police in ZA can't find their backsides with both hands, so what are we meant to do, pretend this isn't happening?
 
Skeptik said:
2. Charged by police & weapon confiscated.
3. Charged by police & weapon confiscated (murder)
6. Charged by police & weapon confiscated.
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There is a difference between charged and prosecuted (let alone successfully).
 
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