Dear S why don’t you try to answer such a straight forward question? Should you be part of this exec team One can understand the unwillingness to debate. If you are not part, try to reason from first principles: no successful input, no gain?
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MTN hands out massive share options to executives
- Thread starter Bradley Prior
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SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
The manner in which you post is not open to debate. It’s more like someone quoting from a book ad nauseum.
Paragraphs would also help to possibly bring comprehension to your posts.
I have no link to or interest in MTN.
Vesting shares is a common practise in all listed companies as a means of staff retention. Especially in times of change or hard times on the horizon.
NightShift
Expert Member
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Alot of very senior executives will be allocated shares whereby when they vest and they are able to sell those shares, the amount of money they receive is the difference between the cost price and the current price. e.g. allocated at R5 sold at R8 = R3 awarded on vesting. Other times they are just awarded the entire share. Not sure if we can tell how their deals are structured.
Anyway. you seem pretty bitter that shareprices were hard hit this year, but think about it, you dont have the majority of shares in the top 40 taking a dive JUST because of incompetent execs at said companies. There are a plethora of other macroeconomic considerations, such as, the impact of corruption, the downgrading to junk status, the loss of investor confidence, international competition, legislation changes in other countries, petrol price increases further constraining already constrained customers, not to mention an increase in VAT, and the overall value of the Rand etc. etc. which often equate to customers being less inclined to buy your products, and most/all of which are out of the control of said execs. Their job is to hold the fort, get the team together, change course if necessary, and ensure LONG TERM survival and growth (not short term 1-3 year stuff)
When do you want your execs to stay the course? When everything is going fine, or when **** is hitting the fan? It's obviously the latter, because people like you and me aren't equipped to be CEO of MTN. In fact, very very very few people are - and believe me - all of those people are having as much money as possible thrown at them at whatever companies they work for to try and persuade them not to buy a house in Italy and gtfo of SA.
Again, this is how it works in capatilistic markets. If it were me, I'd sure as heck take all the benefits I could, and do my best to steer it in the right direction, but not without the incentives.
Dear Markd, thanks for your response. It indicates that execs can address issues. I will debate/comment on your stance down below.
To the perceived micro-minded execs: mud-slinging never contribute to any debate. If one doesn’t follow issues, rather keep quite until you are able to contribute. Should MTN collapse, you will experience devastation in the SA economy like never before - and still they are “thundering” ahead in ridiculousness. Markd I am not bitter. I am devastated by execs/ managers blatantly ignoring the suppliers of the money (share holders) that ensured their existence. To the perceived ignorant mud slinger execs (you’ve showed that you are execs by not answering the simple question) - the stock exchange is where you’ve got your seeding money, or did you forget it?
Markd, again thanks, but you’ve only supplied information - not knowledge - that is freely available in the market. Even a grade 10 learner might know this?
Let me try to get the debate going and move it away from low level comments: All of us want get the economy securely growing? Let me put a few issues on the table for debate.
There are more issues, but let me try some (a) you always claim that shareholders are the most important. Are they really? What about if the share prices don’t grow, likewise the perks should come down? Over years exponentially perks should come down, because long term growth need to be secured - Markd I support you. Then if the execs secure LONG term growth, perks are adapted accordingly. This will also retain staff. (B) Please try to rid yourselves of mud slinging and act as real execs: how ethical is it to take these ridiculous bonuses if a company did not grow?
Try to listen to prof Jannie Rousseau on bonuses for STate Enterprises and the ridiculous bonuses in that sector. Shouldn’t it also be apply to the private sector? You are already getting sometimes extravagant perks/salaries. (C) Then a terrible one Markd, if you are not willing to give the input you were hired for, you can always leave - did you ever say “no” to a bonus, because you are already receiving your salary? If not, it is a healthy freeing experience, worthwhile to explore.
PS save capitalism. It’s the only way forward. The systems you’re applying has the potential to kill it.
To the perceived micro-minded execs: mud-slinging never contribute to any debate. If one doesn’t follow issues, rather keep quite until you are able to contribute. Should MTN collapse, you will experience devastation in the SA economy like never before - and still they are “thundering” ahead in ridiculousness. Markd I am not bitter. I am devastated by execs/ managers blatantly ignoring the suppliers of the money (share holders) that ensured their existence. To the perceived ignorant mud slinger execs (you’ve showed that you are execs by not answering the simple question) - the stock exchange is where you’ve got your seeding money, or did you forget it?
Markd, again thanks, but you’ve only supplied information - not knowledge - that is freely available in the market. Even a grade 10 learner might know this?
Let me try to get the debate going and move it away from low level comments: All of us want get the economy securely growing? Let me put a few issues on the table for debate.
There are more issues, but let me try some (a) you always claim that shareholders are the most important. Are they really? What about if the share prices don’t grow, likewise the perks should come down? Over years exponentially perks should come down, because long term growth need to be secured - Markd I support you. Then if the execs secure LONG term growth, perks are adapted accordingly. This will also retain staff. (B) Please try to rid yourselves of mud slinging and act as real execs: how ethical is it to take these ridiculous bonuses if a company did not grow?
Try to listen to prof Jannie Rousseau on bonuses for STate Enterprises and the ridiculous bonuses in that sector. Shouldn’t it also be apply to the private sector? You are already getting sometimes extravagant perks/salaries. (C) Then a terrible one Markd, if you are not willing to give the input you were hired for, you can always leave - did you ever say “no” to a bonus, because you are already receiving your salary? If not, it is a healthy freeing experience, worthwhile to explore.
PS save capitalism. It’s the only way forward. The systems you’re applying has the potential to kill it.
ArtyLoop
Executive Member
Its rich for you to throw thinly veiled insults at people here, and all that with shocking grammar and case mixtures.
I've worked long enough in larger companies to see how all of this works. Its not what you know, its who you know, and to get to that level, requires a seriously good dose of arse-creeping and having friends in the right places, topped off with those fancy yet pointless "degrees" i.e. MBA.
Most people at the coal face are tired of these who like to rub the noses of the lesser employees in their affluence e.g. like driving in with a new Lamborghini and telling the staff "Oh sorry, no increases this year the company didn't make any money"
I've been through a lot of jobs it took a lot of searching to find the right company to work for, and I can assure you, the bigger the company, the less of a chance you're going to get even a share of the cake.
I am starting to understand that the wall of “logic” is difficult to penetrate. - this not meant as an insult. I never tried to insult anyone. I just stipulated observations. I experience inability to understand opposing viewpoints and address it. The mere focusing on irrelevant minute issues illustrate an inability to debate an issue. This to me is mind boggling. The seemingly self righteous way of addressing real issues, make me wonder whether you can address issues on the table. I would love to debate you in an open forum, but I assume that would also be acting in the same manner. Try to get yourself debating a system that is beneficial to a minute group of people is difficult. (Read your own comments on how these people came to power. )
I think a debate with you execs is fairly impossible? You never address anything, but give comments not applicable. Until such time that you are willing to get into the issue itself, I am now excusing myself from this forum. However if you are able to address issues mentioned, let’s heatly debate it. I don’t think you’re able to do so because your pockets are seemingly emotionally involved.
Try to get into the debate - l invite you. I would love to see whether you can cope
Please none of these are meant to derogative, negative, insulting or negative. I debated your written stances. I will only further comment if you can start focusing on the issues on the table. Can you do so? I strongly doubt.
I think a debate with you execs is fairly impossible? You never address anything, but give comments not applicable. Until such time that you are willing to get into the issue itself, I am now excusing myself from this forum. However if you are able to address issues mentioned, let’s heatly debate it. I don’t think you’re able to do so because your pockets are seemingly emotionally involved.
Try to get into the debate - l invite you. I would love to see whether you can cope
Please none of these are meant to derogative, negative, insulting or negative. I debated your written stances. I will only further comment if you can start focusing on the issues on the table. Can you do so? I strongly doubt.
Well larger proportions are.. I don’t know many companies that don’t do this to be honest and like u say in all levels of the company. Type of shares, rules on it and proportion to salary etc all differ based on lvl.
There was a study in the US which showed how dumb this strategy is from a cost pov as it essentially made exec pay grow at ridiculous rates way, way worse than the cash incentives and bonus structure prior to 90s? When this was introduced.
I dunno hey, SA seems to love taking the best ideas with extreme inequality and open for abuse and then implement and claim ignorance when people in the greater economy whine about costs.. yea I dunno why prices are going up so much and we have one of the worst Gini Coefficients globally.
I was reading an article on a dean? Claiming that graduates in SA are fine.. yes they struggle, underemployed etc but they always end up employed so people shouldn’t complain.
Fun fact.. time value of money means we live in a society where at some point people go.. now is the time make up my losses. <— This kinda makes me think is how and why exec/specialist pay is ridiculous in SA.. and why our system is broken. Something to consider next time you have to see specialist doctor or wondering why data is expensive. At some point the wheels are gonna come off.
Sinbad: Thank you for you insights. I think you are inline with what the markets (investor-shareholders) are telling us. The JSE increases almost day-by-day, however MTN is seemingly consistently sliding downwards? Probably not because of these execs actions?
To the other execs (above) that is so consenting to a system that is based on nothing else but unsubstantiated self-enrichment? (greed)? This is a system that you are seemingly also beneficiaries in. I experienced this same kind of evading to debate crucial issues based on well-substantiated values at business school.
Nevertheless, think about the following: In total these execs got only R 116.9 million of a company that have got MANY more. SARS must be smiling - at 45% they should receive only R 52.59 million in total. This entails that no 1 should receive only R 21.081 of the allocated R38. 329. Why don’t you execs, inline with your posited stance assist these poor execs to make the hand-outs tax FREE amounts? Especially in view of the downward sliding share price, which might decrease further. Don’t worry about shareholders, they didn’t object when the dividend was decrease less than 9 months ago.
This might served towards some of you being promoted? You need not forward it to shareholders meetings, because CEO’s drive the pre-formulated resolutions to the few attendees elegantly by stating “I present - I move” or similar phrases AND often within less than 10 minutes the CEO smiles and releases him (sometimes she) from the room etc etc etc.
To the other execs (above) that is so consenting to a system that is based on nothing else but unsubstantiated self-enrichment? (greed)? This is a system that you are seemingly also beneficiaries in. I experienced this same kind of evading to debate crucial issues based on well-substantiated values at business school.
Nevertheless, think about the following: In total these execs got only R 116.9 million of a company that have got MANY more. SARS must be smiling - at 45% they should receive only R 52.59 million in total. This entails that no 1 should receive only R 21.081 of the allocated R38. 329. Why don’t you execs, inline with your posited stance assist these poor execs to make the hand-outs tax FREE amounts? Especially in view of the downward sliding share price, which might decrease further. Don’t worry about shareholders, they didn’t object when the dividend was decrease less than 9 months ago.
This might served towards some of you being promoted? You need not forward it to shareholders meetings, because CEO’s drive the pre-formulated resolutions to the few attendees elegantly by stating “I present - I move” or similar phrases AND often within less than 10 minutes the CEO smiles and releases him (sometimes she) from the room etc etc etc.
Dear friends,
after the initial crack shots, you’re fairly silent? None of you even asked me how did I pre-know that MTN’s price would go down/decrease regardless of whether the JSE would rise or slow down. I can assure you I did not use regression analyses (linear, non-linear or even Logit - you usually would have been confronted with these techniques in “Business Statistics” in the first year of Business School (M)).
However here’s an interesting further one for you to ponder on, especially in view of all the investigative judicial commissions in SA: How on earth were all these extravagant bonuses bestowed on this CEO corps? Did the “bodies” (on behave of the share holders) who voted it through, possibly shared in this lucrativeness? Makes one wonder and even wander. Are you aware that even Uganda is stretching it’s back against MTN after 20 yrs? Poor managerial corps? SA execs?
after the initial crack shots, you’re fairly silent? None of you even asked me how did I pre-know that MTN’s price would go down/decrease regardless of whether the JSE would rise or slow down. I can assure you I did not use regression analyses (linear, non-linear or even Logit - you usually would have been confronted with these techniques in “Business Statistics” in the first year of Business School (M)).
However here’s an interesting further one for you to ponder on, especially in view of all the investigative judicial commissions in SA: How on earth were all these extravagant bonuses bestowed on this CEO corps? Did the “bodies” (on behave of the share holders) who voted it through, possibly shared in this lucrativeness? Makes one wonder and even wander. Are you aware that even Uganda is stretching it’s back against MTN after 20 yrs? Poor managerial corps? SA execs?
Vrotappel
Bulls fan
SA's ex-ambassador seized over MTN Iran license win
MTNs corruption and criminals woes just compound.
MTNs corruption and criminals woes just compound.
My brain cannot parse this...please see error log.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
It’s because you remain as incomprehensible as you were in your very first post so nobody bothers to address you in reply.
You are literally addressing the executives here as if they are reading this thread and commenting on it, which I can as assure you they are not.
So either you are a loon or a very confused bot.
The way you string incorrect words together to form sentences leads me to the latter.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
No error. Handling processes can. Handle that level of junk input
When a stone is thrown into a thicket, the loadness and size(s) of the noise(s) coming back is more than often indicative of how many are in the choir AND how many are hit. The number of choir members “touched” is really astonishing.
rietrot
Honorary Master
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Lol. Why don't you like mtn?