MTN Shares - Blacks Only!

Some of my black colleagues at work are planning to take advantage of this offer. All earn in excess of R500k a year.

So I'm glad BEE is helping uplift the poor blacks. :confused:
 
Why us blacks only? why are we being driven further apart? there are whites who are poor you know? open this share to everyone who was born and has a South African Identification Document!
 
Grimspoon said:
You apply, they check to see if you have a black skin and that's it. That's how I understood it.
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good afternoon *******, if you are affected in any way possible by this how about you go invest your money elsewhere because the whole country is not BLACKS ONLY, but this initiative is set out to assist the majority of impoverished people in the county, being black people. I dont see how this affects you in such a manner that you have to come out here and whine and cry, especially with all the other places that would gladly allow you to invest your money. Or did you specifically want to invest your shares in this MTN Blacks only scheme just because you know its meant to help black people?
 
Kgositsele said:
good afternoon *******, if you are affected in any way possible by this how about you go invest your money elsewhere because the whole country is not BLACKS ONLY, but this initiative is set out to assist the majority of impoverished people in the county, being black people. I dont see how this affects you in such a manner that you have to come out here and whine and cry, especially with all the other places that would gladly allow you to invest your money. Or did you specifically want to invest your shares in this MTN Blacks only scheme just because you know its meant to help black people?
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Go away!!!
 
Kgositsele said:
good afternoon *******, if you are affected in any way possible by this how about you go invest your money elsewhere because the whole country is not BLACKS ONLY, but this initiative is set out to assist the majority of impoverished people in the county, being black people. I dont see how this affects you in such a manner that you have to come out here and whine and cry, especially with all the other places that would gladly allow you to invest your money. Or did you specifically want to invest your shares in this MTN Blacks only scheme just because you know its meant to help black people?
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Chip on your shoulder much?
 
Kgositsele said:
good afternoon *******, if you are affected in any way possible by this how about you go invest your money elsewhere because the whole country is not BLACKS ONLY, but this initiative is set out to assist the majority of impoverished people in the county, being black people. I dont see how this affects you in such a manner that you have to come out here and whine and cry, especially with all the other places that would gladly allow you to invest your money. Or did you specifically want to invest your shares in this MTN Blacks only scheme just because you know its meant to help black people?
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Bravo... what i don't get from the majority of the "white" people in these forums is that what u expect? after we sign reconciliations and shake hands we'd say "ok bass, u took my fathers land for free and ur kids hav a major headstart in life cos of that. You can keep things the same, as long as u still comfortable, and i gotta work 10 times more than u do to regain a percentage of my fathers land'? Most white ppl will never know how it is to grow up improvished, if not having a DSTV subscription and no internet at home counts as u being improvished? i guess ppl need to sleep in the townships for a year or so.. complaining about 10grand paychecks when some old women out there r spending R800 feeding 6 kids (and mostly on grandkids), thats the reality of black south africa @grimspoon
 
BrandonH said:
Some of my black colleagues at work are planning to take advantage of this offer. All earn in excess of R500k a year.

So I'm glad BEE is helping uplift the poor blacks. :confused:
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Ok the entire thing will net an additional income of 8.9 billion rand for MTN allowing it to expand its business. Now it only increases the Black shareholding to 4%, fully dilutional ordinary share capital (that means for you guys who can't do some simple maths that 96% of the company is still white owned). So in a country where the majority of the population is black a "PUBLIC" company that is based here is still owned largely by white people ie 96%. Now the brokerage fees of trading makes very expensive for someone who only wants to say invest R1000 in the stock market (the brokerage fees would amount to approx R100). So this is to allow poor black people a chance to buy shares in the company. The offer is structured in such a way that the shares are allocated from the botom up ie the people who invest the least get shares first. So the rich guys who buy shares for approximately lets say 1 million rand have a chance of losing out (ie not getting shares but they have thier money returned) but if they succeed in getting shares than they filling the shortfall to ensure the deal goes ahead. In simplistic terms you are paying a 5th of the price of the share with a portion donated by MTN and a portion subsidised by a special agreement with a bank so that the shares are paid off over 5 years(with the shareholder not receiving dividend income until the subsidised amount is paid off). This is truly BEE. May I remind everyone that 96% of the company is still in white hands(using my simple maths, this figure might be lower but we are not privy to exact BEE status of MTN). (Most info from prospectus) This offer is only being made so that MTN can benefit from the TAX concessions that BEE offers otherwise the poor would never have access to these shares.

Kgositsele said:
good afternoon *******, if you are affected in any way possible by this how about you go invest your money elsewhere because the whole country is not BLACKS ONLY, but this initiative is set out to assist the majority of impoverished people in the county, being black people. I dont see how this affects you in such a manner that you have to come out here and whine and cry, especially with all the other places that would gladly allow you to invest your money. Or did you specifically want to invest your shares in this MTN Blacks only scheme just because you know its meant to help black people?
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A bit extreme but understandable considering that someone is dumb enough to compare BEE to apartheid. Last time I checked we don't have "Blacks only" hospitals, schools and beaches. We don't throw white people into jail for being out of thier homes after 6pm in soweto.Huletts sugar is currently the country is the largest sugar miller but has a board of directors that are totally white. 1994 was the year we won our freedom but the wealth of this nation stayed in the hands of largely white individuals and international owners. I'm not saying that there are no poor white people, I'm just saying that the wealth of this nation does not follow the demographics which makes no sense.
 
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purpleonlineadmin said:
Bravo... what i don't get from the majority of the "white" people in these forums is that what u expect? after we sign reconciliations and shake hands we'd say "ok bass, u took my fathers land for free and ur kids hav a major headstart in life cos of that. You can keep things the same, as long as u still comfortable, and i gotta work 10 times more than u do to regain a percentage of my fathers land'? Most white ppl will never know how it is to grow up improvished, if not having a DSTV subscription and no internet at home counts as u being improvished? i guess ppl need to sleep in the townships for a year or so.. complaining about 10grand paychecks when some old women out there r spending R800 feeding 6 kids (and mostly on grandkids), thats the reality of black south africa @grimspoon
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Agreed to put this into perspective. You know the that time you didn't have water for 2-3 days (and you never have a bath and was buying those 5 litre still water bottles from spar) well take that experience and multiply it by 365 and you understand what impoverish is and add the thought of losing your home or thinking about where your next plate of food is to that.
 
The problem with this is that it is rich blacks who get to buy cheap shares. The poor still get nothing.
 
If you are Chinese and you have a resident permit you have the same BEE status as a "Black" South African. How come a Chinese foreigner settled in our country also classified as a minority group have more acknowledgement and recognition than a "Whitey" that has spent his whole life building the country, paying taxes and being a law abiding citizen?

I believe should we all now have equal opportunities regardless of our pigment color, more people would be employed and more previously disadvantaged people will be able to buy shares on the open market without restrictions and being coned into funding companies blindly that may our may not be giving a return on their money after a couple of years.

BEE shares are a clever ploy to get the poor masses to spend money that they normally would use for food with very few choices available, today MTN tomorrow Sasol and so on ......
 
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if MTN is really into uplifting the poor then they would make the quota based on income and not on skin colour. We all know that they are eyeing the government tenders. Well done to those trying to justify racism once again :)
 
dingaanone said:
If you are Chinese and you have a resident permit you have the same BEE status as a "Black" South African. How come a Chinese foreigner settled in our country also classified as a minority group have more acknowledgement and recognition than a "Whitey" that has spent his whole life building the country, paying taxes and being a law abiding citizen?

I believe should we all now have equal opportunities regardless of our pigment color, more people would be employed and more previously disadvantaged people will be able to buy shares on the open market without restrictions and being coned into funding companies blindly that may our may not be giving a return on their money after a couple of years.

BEE shares are a clever ploy to get the poor masses to spend money that they normally would use for food with very few choices available, today MTN tomorrow Sasol and so on ......
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You see China is a big bully and SA a big nerd.........
 
MightyMuffinMan said:
Ok the entire thing will net an additional income of 8.9 billion rand for MTN allowing it to expand its business. Now it only increases the Black shareholding to 4%, fully dilutional ordinary share capital (that means for you guys who can't do some simple maths that 96% of the company is still white owned).
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Oh really? So you expect us to believe that MTN was 100% white owned in 2009 (prior to this deal)? :D
 
Milano said:
Oh really? So you expect us to believe that MTN was 100% white owned in 2009 (prior to this deal)? :D
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No, try reading the rest of the paragraph. BEE requires 25-30% to get tax concessions (I think) , so that would mean that MTN is below this if they willing to dilute the value of their current issued share capital (unsure if capital is the right word) to gain form the TAX concessions etc.
 
MightyMuffinMan said:
No, try reading the rest of the paragraph. BEE requires 25-30% to get tax concessions (I think) , so that would mean that MTN is below this if they willing to dilute the value of their current issued share capital (unsure if capital is the right word) to gain form the TAX concessions etc.
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Read it the first time, didn't impress me.
 
One of my great (or great great) grandparents is/was Japanese; surely then by the 'one drop' rule I'm black? :D
 
Grimspoon said:
Anyone else find this unbelievable? I mean we going ****ing backwards here. Whats next? This is apartheid in reverse.
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Yep. Not sure why you're angry at MTN though...its totally on the level since our fine constitution legalizes discrimination.

"Everyone is equal before the law and has the right to equal protection and benefit of the law. Equality includes the full and equal enjoyment of all rights and freedoms. To promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons, disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken."
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Discriminating against white people counts as fair discrimination. I still don't get how that jives with the "Everyone is equal before the law" though.:confused:

MightyMuffinMan said:
Ok the entire thing will net an additional income of 8.9 billion rand for MTN allowing it to expand its business.
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Hahaha. That is quite possibly the worst logic to justify this ever. Had they issued it in a straight share issue they would have received market price not R20. I assure you can can expand a business better w/ market price than R20. Also, cash received for shares is capital, not income.;)

MightyMuffinMan said:
In simplistic terms you are paying a 5th of the price of the share with a portion donated by [-]MTN[/-] existing shareholders via dilution
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FTFY

MightyMuffinMan said:
portion subsidised by a special agreement with a bank so that the shares are paid off over 5 years
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6 years, and no the bank doesn't subside anything they provide a loan on which they make a profit.

One thing you're right about though is that this deal is much better closer to "true BEE" (whatever that is) than the normal consortium k@k we see w/ BEE fat cats.
 
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