MWEB Abuse Notices Complaint

At least you are one of the few who got an official response from ISPA. In cases where their members are at fault, ISPA conveniently chooses not to respond and then ping-pong you until they have completely worn you down - so frame that response and move on.

Well the response did come almost 4 months after the complaint was withdrawn to clear path to go the ICASA route. Moreover the manner of dismissal is peculiar to say the lest.
My concern always is with procedure and not with outcome - to be entirely honest if I was an adjudicator for ISPA I may well have dismissed the complaint holding that the misrepresentation while dishonest was not actionable and represented puffery reflecting on the integrity of the person making the promise rather than the product itself (don't trust promises from CEOs ...) - but the inordinate delays, the failure to seek further clarity if there was a genuine apprehension on the complaint, the demands for secrecy - repeatedly - and several in-apposite remarks in the adjudication all lend themselves to thoroughly concluding that ISPA simply lacks the wherewithal to actually deal with problems from members.

The statement about "natural justice" had me laughing - it really has become South African lawyer and law student speak for not liking something but not having a legal basis to object - especially because if the adjudicator had difficulty understanding the complaint the rules of natural justice demand that clarity be sought: amusingly there is precedent on this very point for motion court proceedings - where the respondent alleges that the applicant has failed to clearly state a proper case the rules of natural justice demand that the applicant be afforded an opportunity to state their case and highlight those parts of the founding papers upon which the case is based.

My response has actually been quite a ping pong today. I will not be appealing - having already withdrawn the complaint. I have published the adjudication on this site and forwarded it to a journalist. They have insisted that I "unpublish" which I refused and indicated that they should take it up with the site administrator. They then sent me an email saying that their email contains a nondisclosure. I replied that the adjudicators report is a public document which overrides the email disclaimer (something for which there is precedent in our labour law at least) and that they must seek a take down notice against the site and that I will accept process by way of email (so they are welcome to seek an interdict). It is very clear - from quite a bit of the correspondence - that MWEB do not want the dirty laundry aired in public

I am now waiting for a Notice of Motion for suit before the Eastern Cape High Court to be emailed to me or for a take down to be sent to MyBroadband or - the most likely - for nothing further to come from ISPA itself and maybe an article or two on MyBB. After election season has left ICASA there is the CCC process to go with.
 
For those internet users out there who still come across this thread (like I did), typically after realizing that MWEB have sustained their same practices with regards to deceiving their customers, I'd like to share my personal experience with you and advise you to stay as far away from MWEB as you possibly can.

Regardless of whether or not MWEB are being deceitful to you right now, rest assured they will be deceitful to you at some point in the future.

I have been a loyal customer of theirs since approximately January 2012. At that time MWEB offered a limited number of consumer uncapped ADSL offerings. These offerings were detailed in a press release dated 18 March 2010, which (at this time) is currently still available on their website:
https://www.mweb.co.za/aboutus/Portals/25/PressReleases/2010/Launch%20Release.pdf

I decided to sign up for the 4Mbps data-only uncapped package, priced at R539 per month. There was not Premium or Standard package offering then. There was a single 4Mbps package that was uncapped and unlimited, period.

7 years later, MWEB have continued to charge me R539 per month for the same service, albeit now that the service "changed" to a "Premium" package some time between 2014-2015. I received absolutely no communication from MWEB over this period informing me of this change. The only visible evidence I have of this change was that in September 2015 the line item description on the monthly Invoice I received from them for the 4Mbps service was "I-ADSL-U4096K-M: ADSL Uncapped Data Only 4096", and in October 2015 that wording changed to "4 Mbps Uncapped Premium ADSL".

Consistently since I signed my initial original contract with MWEB and today, the price I have been paying MWEB has remained the same, i.e. R539 per month.

MWEB sent out a broad communication email on 3/11/2016 informing customers that they would be, in my case, upgrading my 4 Mbps connection to 6 Mbps for FREE. Oblivious to me back then was the fact that MWEB at the same time began offering new packages at significantly lower prices to customers, obviously not targeting their existing customer base otherwise I'm sure they would have sent me an email, which they didn't. In fact the package I am now paying for isn't even offered anywhere on their website, most likely because it has been discontinued and / or only still exists so that they can continue overcharging existing customers who are unaware they could and should be paying significantly less.

Subsequently despite the fact that my Telkom exchange cannot support ADSL connection speeds above 4 Mbps to my address, MWEB inconspicuously started invoicing me for the 6 Mbps uncapped Premium package from December 2016. Fortunately the change on the invoice caught my eye because I am well aware that my Telkom exchange does not support connections higher than 4Mbps.

In order to conceal their obvious deceitfulness to their existing customers, all along they have maintained their monthly price at exactly R539 per month, despite 7 years of ongoing changes and constraints they have applied to the Terms and Conditions and UAP legal policies. To put this further in perspective 7 years later, despite constant advertising by MWEB of drastic broadband price cuts, which they also claimed would be passed on to existing customers, the price they have been charging me has most certainly never changed. In fact MWEB even published a press release on their website dated 20 August 2014 where they state they have reduced the price of their 10 Mbps Uncapped ADSL Data Only package from R599 to R539. Yet even from September 2014 MWEB continued to charge me the same price (R539)for "ADSL Uncapped the Data Only 4096" package.
https://www.mweb.co.za/portals/25/PressReleases/2014/Price%20and%20Cap%20changes%2012%20August%202014.pdf


MWEB Standard vs. Premium Packages
Okay, so for a second let's just forget up all my gripes that I've detailed above, and let's go back so some fundamental basics with regards to MWEB packages and how they differentiate Standard vs. Premium offerings. Firstly you may well have already realized that finding this information out on MWEB's website is certainly not easy. They have managed to get away with disclosing this information by referring you to the Legal Policies section on their website, under which you will find the standard T&C's and Acceptable Use Policy, which basically don't tell you anything other than that they can decide to throttle you whenever they feel like, no matter what package you have subscribed to.

I did some more digging into the content published on their website and eventually came across some more specific guidance in the Help section of their website:
http://www.mweb.co.za/help/ADSL/ViewArticle/tabid/3766/Article/15691/ADSL-Speed-and-Performance-Part-3-Traffic-and-Shaping.aspx?page=2

So let's see how the information the published on this "Help" web page aligns with the monthly subscription package MWEB have been billing me for:
My Package
Package Name (per my invoice): 6Mbps Uncapped Premium ADSL Data Only (despite my max 4Mbps Telkom connection)
Cost Package per Month: R539
Volume of Data before connection throttled: 800GB
Approximate Reduced speed when throttled: 1.15Mbps

Current Comparative Uncapped Package Offered By MWEB
Package Name : 20Mbps Uncapped ADSL Data Only
https://www.mweb.co.za/internet-connection/adsl/uncapped-adsl/20mbps-uncapped-vdsl.aspx?promo=month-to-month-uncapped
Cost of Package per Month (No Contract): R499
Volume of Data before connection throttled: 500GB
Approximate Reduced speed when throttled: 3.84Mbps


Now let's consider this for a minute. For R40 less per month, I could have been on ADSL package that is 5 times faster than what I currently am paying for. On that package even when users exceed the 500GB softcap, their connections are still only throttled to about 3.8Mbps. which is in any case the maximum speed which I am able to receive on the "Premium" package MWEB are currently charging me for. Furthermore, if I exceed the 800GB softcap on my current "Premium" package, I am then throttled to about 1Mbps, whilst customers paying less than I am per month on standard packages continue to enjoy speeds well above mine despite the fact I am paying more.

All I can say to existing and potential future customers of MWEB that come across this thread is go somewhere else. Their responses to the emails I sent to the support and billing dispute resolutions / support services on questioning this with them is simply to fall back on the fact that because I have been paying them exactly the same amount for 7 years, they are completely within their rights provide a service to which if anything is worse that what I originally signed up for.

I have moved across to relatively new start-up WiFi ISP: Nepic
http://www.nepic.co.za/

For the first time ever I am actually getting the speeds advertised, and above all the service has been fantastic. As they are still a relatively new business, their coverage area is fairly limited (Gauteng East Rand, but growing). Nevertheless from a personal perspective I am just grateful that I have finally made the move away from Telkom and MWEB and wish that I had done this a long long time ago. Lesson learnt!
 
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For those internet users out there who still come across this thread (like I did), typically after realizing that MWEB have sustained their same practices with regards to deceiving their customers, I'd like to share my personal experience with you and advise you to stay as far away from MWEB as you possibly can.

Regardless of whether or not MWEB are being deceitful to you right now, rest assured they will be deceitful to you at some point in the future.

I have been a loyal customer of theirs since approximately January 2012. At that time MWEB offered a limited number of consumer uncapped ADSL offerings. These offerings were detailed in a press release dated 18 March 2010, which (at this time) is currently still available on their website:
https://www.mweb.co.za/aboutus/Portals/25/PressReleases/2010/Launch%20Release.pdf

I decided to sign up for the 4Mbps data-only uncapped package, priced at R539 per month. There was not Premium or Standard package offering then. There was a single 4Mbps package that was uncapped and unlimited, period.

7 years later, MWEB have continued to charge me R539 per month for the same service, albeit now that the service "changed" to a "Premium" package some time between 2014-2015. I received absolutely no communication from MWEB over this period informing me of this change. The only visible evidence I have of this change was that in September 2015 the line item description on the monthly Invoice I received from them for the 4Mbps service was "I-ADSL-U4096K-M: ADSL Uncapped Data Only 4096", and in October 2015 that wording changed to "4 Mbps Uncapped Premium ADSL".

Consistently since I signed my initial original contract with MWEB and today, the price I have been paying MWEB has remained the same, i.e. R539 per month.

MWEB sent out a broad communication email on 3/11/2016 informing customers that they would be, in my case, upgrading my 4 Mbps connection to 6 Mbps for FREE. Oblivious to me back then was the fact that MWEB at the same time began offering new packages at significantly lower prices to customers, obviously not targeting their existing customer base otherwise I'm sure they would have sent me an email, which they didn't. In fact the package I am now paying for isn't even offered anywhere on their website, most likely because it has been discontinued and / or only still exists so that they can continue overcharging existing customers who are unaware they could and should be paying significantly less.

Subsequently despite the fact that my Telkom exchange cannot support ADSL connection speeds above 4 Mbps to my address, MWEB inconspicuously started invoicing me for the 6 Mbps uncapped Premium package from December 2016. Fortunately the change on the invoice caught my eye because I am well aware that my Telkom exchange does not support connections higher than 4Mbps.

In order to conceal their obvious deceitfulness to their existing customers, all along they have maintained their monthly price at exactly R539 per month, despite 7 years of ongoing changes and constraints they have applied to the Terms and Conditions and UAP legal policies. To put this further in perspective 7 years later, despite constant advertising by MWEB of drastic broadband price cuts, which they also claimed would be passed on to existing customers, the price they have been charging me has most certainly never changed. In fact MWEB even published a press release on their website dated 20 August 2014 where they state they have reduced the price of their 10 Mbps Uncapped ADSL Data Only package from R599 to R539. Yet even from September 2014 MWEB continued to charge me the same price (R539)for "ADSL Uncapped the Data Only 4096" package.
https://www.mweb.co.za/portals/25/PressReleases/2014/Price%20and%20Cap%20changes%2012%20August%202014.pdf


MWEB Standard vs. Premium Packages
Okay, so for a second let's just forget up all my gripes that I've detailed above, and let's go back so some fundamental basics with regards to MWEB packages and how they differentiate Standard vs. Premium offerings. Firstly you may well have already realized that finding this information out on MWEB's website is certainly not easy. They have managed to get away with disclosing this information by referring you to the Legal Policies section on their website, under which you will find the standard T&C's and Acceptable Use Policy, which basically don't tell you anything other than that they can decide to throttle you whenever they feel like, no matter what package you have subscribed to.

I did some more digging into the content published on their website and eventually came across some more specific guidance in the Help section of their website:
http://www.mweb.co.za/help/ADSL/ViewArticle/tabid/3766/Article/15691/ADSL-Speed-and-Performance-Part-3-Traffic-and-Shaping.aspx?page=2

So let's see how the information the published on this "Help" web page aligns with the monthly subscription package MWEB have been billing me for:
My Package
Package Name (per my invoice): 6Mbps Uncapped Premium ADSL Data Only (despite my max 4Mbps Telkom connection)
Cost Package per Month: R539
Volume of Data before connection throttled: 800GB
Approximate Reduced speed when throttled: 1.15Mbps

Current Comparative Uncapped Package Offered By MWEB
Package Name : 20Mbps Uncapped ADSL Data Only
https://www.mweb.co.za/internet-connection/adsl/uncapped-adsl/20mbps-uncapped-vdsl.aspx?promo=month-to-month-uncapped
Cost of Package per Month (No Contract): R499
Volume of Data before connection throttled: 500GB
Approximate Reduced speed when throttled: 3.84Mbps


Now let's consider this for a minute. For R40 less per month, I could have been on ADSL package that is 5 times faster than what I currently am paying for. On that package even when users exceed the 500GB softcap, their connections are still only throttled to about 3.8Mbps. which is in any case the maximum speed which I am able to receive on the "Premium" package MWEB are currently charging me for. Furthermore, if I exceed the 800GB softcap on my current "Premium" package, I am then throttled to about 1Mbps, whilst customers paying less than I am per month on standard packages continue to enjoy speeds well above mine despite the fact I am paying more.

All I can say to existing and potential future customers of MWEB that come across this thread is go somewhere else. Their responses to the emails I sent to the support and billing dispute resolutions / support services on questioning this with them is simply to fall back on the fact that because I have been paying them exactly the same amount for 7 years, they are completely within their rights provide a service to which if anything is worse that what I originally signed up for.

I have moved across to relatively new start-up WiFi ISP: Nepic
http://www.nepic.co.za/

For the first time ever I am actually getting the speeds advertised, and above all the service has been fantastic. As they are still a relatively new business, their coverage area is fairly limited (Gauteng East Rand, but growing). Nevertheless from a personal perspective I am just grateful that I have finally made the move away from Telkom and MWEB and wish that I had done this a long long time ago. Lesson learnt!

Hi Wonderkid73

Thank you for taking the time in raising your concerns.

The statement that MWEB is deceitful is unfounded and I assure you MWEB always have the best intentions for the customer, who are the cornerstone of our business.

I managed to find your account and see it is still active. Your query is being addressed by our Client Service specialist department who I believe will give it the full attention & urgency it deserves.
 
Hi Wonderkid73

Thank you for taking the time in raising your concerns.

The statement that MWEB is deceitful is unfounded and I assure you MWEB always have the best intentions for the customer, who are the cornerstone of our business.

I managed to find your account and see it is still active. Your query is being addressed by our Client Service specialist department who I believe will give it the full attention & urgency it deserves.

Although it's good seeing Mweb taking attention - I highly doubt any business would ever compensate for this amount of loss and just refer the client to the T&C...

Please prove me wrong :)
 
Hi Wonderkid73

Thank you for taking the time in raising your concerns.

The statement that MWEB is deceitful is unfounded and I assure you MWEB always have the best intentions for the customer, who are the cornerstone of our business.

I managed to find your account and see it is still active. Your query is being addressed by our Client Service specialist department who I believe will give it the full attention & urgency it deserves.

If as you state "The statement that MWEB is deceitful is unfounded" is an appropriate response, why is it that on your website your so-called "Premium" packages are no longer even advertised?

Furthermore, you "upgraded" my account supposedly for "FREE" to a 6Mbps connection when you know full well that my usage patterns over the past 6 months have been well below your Premium package thresholds, and per the information on your website when I log into my account, you are well aware that the quality of my connection as you term it is "Poor" with a best connection speed of 3.2Mbps in the past year.

Nonetheless I would like to give you a reasonable opportunity to respond to the concerns I raised by publicly responding to the following:
1. Where on your website to you provide information and pricing with regards to your so-called Premium packages and what differentiates your Premium packages from your Standard packages?
2. I would also request a public response from MWEB with regards to why as subscriber to your one of your Premium packages, if I do exceed your throttling threshold, a subscriber to Standard package paying less than I do per month speed to which they have been throttled is nearly 4 times faster than the speed at which I will throttled despite the premium service price I am paying.

If you are serious about the fact that "MWEB always have the best intentions for the customer, who are the cornerstone of our business.", then respond publicly, and stop making it so difficult for customers to understand the differences between capped, uncapped, premium vs. standard, throttling, and provide a comparative service offerings table on your website so customers can make informed decisions about which package is best for them.
 
MWEB, why don't you complete / fill in the blanks on the following table and prove to your Premium customers that you are not being deceitful in your package offerings?

0001-125835357.png
 
@MWEBHelp

Currently on 6Mbps Uncapped Premium ADSL Data.

So if I am always using <150GB per month and I am okay with 4Mbps, I can switch from Premium at R539 per month to Standard at R199 per month with no other loss in performance? Is that correct?

Edit: I see my line rental is 4Mbps, so there will be no speed loss. So if I am using <150GB per month, when I switch to R199 per month Standard, there is no difference at all except price?
 
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@Milano allow me to field that question for you on behalf of @MWEBHelp, and perhaps show what many customers might call proper services / help with selecting the right package for them.

Firstly you should understanding that the 150GB softcap limit is a rolling 30 day limit an a not a calendar month limit, and secondly these softcap limits "are approximate discretionary values which are subject to change without notice".

So you can appreciate if all our Premium customers switched across to Standard packages, we would experience a significant loss in revenue, and somehow we would need to make that up (hence the clause that our softcap limits "are approximate discretionary values which are subject to change without notice").

But to provide you with the best possible guidance now, the only information we provide on our website about our different packages and the differences between them other that what is disclosed here:
http://www.mweb.co.za/help/ADSL/ViewArticle/tabid/3766/Article/15236/Capped-Uncapped-Premium-and-Standard.aspx
What I would advise you to do is any one of a number of things:
1. Switch to the 4Mbps ADSL Standard Package @ R199 and save R340 per month, as long as you understand you may be softtcapped / throttled if your usage exceeds 150GB. OR
2. Add two 4Mbps ADS Standard Package subscriptions to your account @ 199 each (R398 per month) and still save R141 each month. When the one runs out, switch the account on the router to the other one. Then you have a 300 GB cap which personally would have been at least three times more than my personal needs. I don't need 800GB, OR
3. Or better yet, why not switch over to one of MWEBs capped offerings? For R199/month you could have a "200GB + Uncapped Night Time Data" packages, and then buy an add-on bundle if you exceed you 200GB usage. These capped packages are regardless of the connection speed - go wild!, or you are welcome to see if one MWEB's other capped offerings better suits you:
https://www.mweb.co.za/internet-connection/adsl/capped-adsl?promo=month-to-month-capped

PS: You should also be aware that even our capped offerings are subject to the Fair Use Policy. So getting "Uncapped Night Time Data" doesn't mean we aren't still going to throttle you. In fact technically we may actually throttle you during other times of the day too (peak periods during the day for example). It's really all at our discretion (aka "best effort").

Or of course you can wait for @MWEBHelp to respond and give their professional unbiased opinion, and see if customer service really matters to them, and they can come up with a more suitable package for your needs. The fact is MWEB have all the information about you connection status, usage stats, etc. and what do they do with this information? Nothing. They simply continue to maximize how much more you are ignorant enough to pay for as long as they can.
 
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@Milano allow me to field that question for you on behalf of @MWEBHelp, and perhaps show what many customers might call proper services / help with selecting the right package for them.

Firstly you should understanding that the 150GB softcap limit is a rolling 30 day limit an a not a calendar month limit, and secondly these softcap limits "are approximate discretionary values which are subject to change without notice".

So you can appreciate if all our Premium customers switched across to Standard packages, we would experience a significant loss in revenue, and somehow we would need to make that up (hence the clause that our softcap limits "are approximate discretionary values which are subject to change without notice").

But to provide you with the best possible guidance now, the only information we provide on our website about our different packages and the differences between them other that what is disclosed here:
http://www.mweb.co.za/help/ADSL/ViewArticle/tabid/3766/Article/15236/Capped-Uncapped-Premium-and-Standard.aspx
What I would advise you to do is any one of a number of things:
1. Switch to the 4Mbps ADSL Standard Package @ R199 and save R340 per month, as long as you understand you may be softtcapped / throttled if your usage exceeds 150GB. OR
2. Add two 4Mbps ADS Standard Package subscriptions to your account @ 199 each (R398 per month) and still save R141 each month. When the one runs out, switch the account on the router to the other one. Then you have a 300 GB cap which personally would have been at least three times more than my personal needs. I don't need 800GB, OR
3. Or better yet, why not switch over to one of MWEBs capped offerings? For R199/month you could have a "200GB + Uncapped Night Time Data" packages, and then buy an add-on bundle if you exceed you 200GB usage. These capped packages are regardless of the connection speed - go wild!, or you are welcome to see if one MWEB's other capped offerings better suits you:
https://www.mweb.co.za/internet-connection/adsl/capped-adsl?promo=month-to-month-capped

Or of course you can wait for @MWEBHelp to respond and give their profession unbiased opinion, and see if customer service really matters to them, and they can come up with a more suitable package for your needs. The fact is MWEB have all the information about you connection status, usage stats, etc. and what do they do with this information? Nothing. They simply continue to maximize how much more you are ignorant enough to pay for as long as they can.

Extremely comprehensive answer, appreciate it. Yup, any way you look at it, I am definitely over-paying. Will downgrade to a better suited product.
 
Extremely comprehensive answer, appreciate it. Yup, any way you look at it, I am definitely over-paying. Will downgrade to a better suited product.

I'm glad my learnings can help others. Nowadays many of us are just too busy to read the fine print. We see something like uncapped and say that sounds awesome, no more getting cut off, or being overcharged like we are with most of the Mobile Data Service provides when they charge ridiculous rates when we go out of bundle. But what most people don't realise that we sign up with companies like MWEB what we are really signing up for.

I'm targeting MWEB here because I gave them an opportunity to respond privately to an email I sent to their Billing queries email account with most of the information I've detailed above. Their response to the concerns raised in my email to them, to quote, was as follows:

Good day
Thank you for your reply.
Kindly be advised that you have always been on the R539.00 per month subscription. Its just that we upgraded all members to 6MB at R539.00 per month as per the notification sent October 2016.

I then phoned them to which again they responded with statements such as your contract with us has never changed which equates to "because as long as you have been paying the same amount since day 1, your contract with us hasn't changed". The fact that their initial advertising lead customers to believe that they would also never throttle users was their legal loophole to subsequently change the T&C's and UAP as, how and whenever they saw fit, and this has now become a perfectly acceptable practice to them. The fact that they won a lawsuit against them in this regard has enabled them to take this to even further extremes.

Let's say you have heard about MWEB before, and the great deals you may have heard or read about or seen through their advertising campaigns. So you go to their website to find out more. On their website they promote their most popular packages, and broadly these currently include Fibre, Uncapped ADSL, Capped ADSL. Typically they have packages around these offerings that are either offered with "No Contract" (aka month-to-month) or with a "Contract". Their contracts typically range from 12-24 months, include a free router, free installation etc. You can also choose whether you want them to manage (and charge you for) the "ADSL or Fibre Line" or pay Telkom directly yourself.

Let me give credit where credit is due. I like their website. It's clean, uncluttered, visually appealing, professional looking, mobile friendly, exactly what I would expect from an organization I'd be interested in doing business with. I cannot and certainly do not have any gripes about MWEB's website per se.

The concerns I have raised relate to the manner in which information is disclosed (or not disclosed as the case may be), typically in the fine print - i.e. when you delve into the detail and try and understand what you really signing up for. So again, this is easiest to illustrate by walking through an example.

Existing Customer Scenario
Ok so let's go back to my personal experience. I am existing customer of MWEB's for 5+ years. I have been paying exactly the same R539 month-to-month subscription for the 4Mbps uncapped ADSL package I originally signed up for. Eventually I realized that I could either by paying a lot less based on my usage patterns, or alternatively I could still be paying more or less the same and opt for one of their higher speed uncapped ADSL offerings.

So I go to MWEB's website, click on the "UNCAPPED ADSL" link on the top menu. I already have a router, so I select the option "NO CONTRACT", and I am then presented with a whole bunch of offerings where the monthly package prices are lower than the R539 per month I am currently paying. Since I'm used to paying around R500 per month, their 20Mbps package at R499 looks very appealing to me when compared to what I have now, and I notice their catch byline "For high traffic homes or small businesses who want speed without a monthly data limit to download, stream HD or game online.". Sounds great, so I click "ORDER NOW".

This is where people typically start overlooking the fine print, because by now you are wrapped up in the moment, excited because you reached that point where you've likely made up your mind, and most people by then only see what they want to see. So let me call out what you "should" be seeing and questioning:

1. "This promotion is available for new customers only."
Hmmmm - I am an existing customer. What now? Why does this not apply to existing customers? In fact now I start wondering why is it that the package I am currently on now isn't even listed on the website anymore?

2. "ADSL Terms and Conditions"
Ok, so who sells anything these days without T&Cs? That's ok, right?

But ok, let's look at the detail in the T’s & C’s. It looks like typical legal jargon. You the customer need to pay us. In the event of a dispute, you may approach ICASA (but we have great lawyers so good luck with that). Blah, blah.

Then their is their MWEB Acceptable Use Policy. This is where any potential new AND existing customers should really read, and if you do, you will begin to understand just how misleading and deceptive MWEB are and can be, at their discretion.
To quote:
By using any of MWEB’s services, Customers agree to comply with this AUP and to remain responsible for its users, where applicable. MWEB reserves the right to change or modify the terms of the AUP at any time, by posting an updated version on its Website at http://www.mweb.co.za/legalpolicies/. Customer's use of MWEB’s services after changes to the AUP are posted shall constitute acceptance of any changed or additional terms.

Let me give you the run down of what you really signing up for, whether that be on long-term contract, or simply a month-to-month package, or a so-called Premium package, or a standard package. When you sign any contract with MWEB you are agreeing and accepting the conditions of their T's & C's as well the AUP, which incorporates a clause with regards to their Fair Use Policy (FUP). The FUP entitles MWEB to throttle you whenever they want to, entirely at their discretion. The point (volume of data) at which you are throttled is not disclosed anywhere on the Legal Policies section of their website. If fact if you are a new customer you are never informed what the limits are, how exactly you will be throttled, for how long, because it is entirely at their discretion. Even if you were able to locate this information on their website, and then made a decision based on that to sign a 24 month contract with them, they could legally reduce those caps to say 10 times lower than what they were when you signed up with them, and there is nothing you can do about it.

This is exactly the sales practice MWEB adopted in 2010 when they announced the first uncapped ADSL offerings in South Africa, and advertised it along the lines of "we will never cap your usage, EVER". A couple of years later when their network got saturated with all the users they had signed up on the promotion, they then imposed rolling 30 day monthly caps, and began throttling users that exceeded those caps. A couple of dissatisfied customers took MWEB to court about this, however MWEB won the case on the grounds that they never capped their users, they simply throttled them.

Why is this relevant today you may ask? Well think about the rollout of Fibre across the country. Right now Fibre is offered in limited areas, so all the ISPs want to get as many of this new customer base as they possibly can, because once you are a customer, you are either contractually bound for 2 years, or changing ISPs is just too much admin in a world where people have become complacent and don't have the time to argue on a case they are probably never going to win. And that is exactly where MWEB have taken advantage of customers such as myself by overcharging them for years because the standard debit order just goes off every month, and when eventually you realize how you have been treated, you contact their support and billing departments, and they have heard it all before and know exactly what to say in order to absolve themselves of all liability and make you out to be the villain, and that really it's your responsibility to continuously check their website and see whether there is perhaps a better package suited to you needs.

@MWEBHelp, I again challenge you - if you truly have the best intentions for your customers, why don't do the following:
1. When you send out you monthly invoices and statements, include the usage stats for the past year for that customer in the email in relation to their caps / thresholds
2. Clearly disclose what the volume and throttle thresholds for all your packages are at any given time on your Legal Notices section on your website
3. If customers (especially those on month-to-month contracts) could clearly benefit either by opting for a faster connection or by switching to a cheaper package, proactively send those customer emails to them informing them accordingly. Any customer that received emails like that from any service provider would become extremely loyal customers.

Or of course you can continue to proclaim that MWEB always have the best intentions for your customers, and existing and potentially new customers can read threads like this one and decide for themselves, and slowly but surely smaller start-up companies such as Nepic will be most wiling to sign-up dissatisfied customers such as myself and never come back once they experience what true customer service is.
 
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If as you state "The statement that MWEB is deceitful is unfounded" is an appropriate response, why is it that on your website your so-called "Premium" packages are no longer even advertised?

Our website has been simplified for user viewing convenience. Users are welcome to contact us via chat, call centre, email, or either of our social media outlets to further clarify any product info.

Furthermore, you "upgraded" my account supposedly for "FREE" to a 6Mbps connection when you know full well that my usage patterns over the past 6 months have been well below your Premium package thresholds, and per the information on your website when I log into my account, you are well aware that the quality of my connection as you term it is "Poor" with a best connection speed of 3.2Mbps in the past year.

Customers need to monitor their own usage and request to align their product to better suit their usage stats and connection speed.

Nonetheless I would like to give you a reasonable opportunity to respond to the concerns I raised by publicly responding to the following:
1. Where on your website to you provide information and pricing with regards to your so-called Premium packages and what differentiates your Premium packages from your Standard packages?
2. I would also request a public response from MWEB with regards to why as subscriber to your one of your Premium packages, if I do exceed your throttling threshold, a subscriber to Standard package paying less than I do per month speed to which they have been throttled is nearly 4 times faster than the speed at which I will throttled despite the premium service price I am paying.

1. Premium product options have been removed from our website (see reasoning in my previous response) and the only difference between the two packages is the larger download threshold;
2. faster packages and packages that have larger download thresholds receive faster throttle speeds.
 
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@MWEBHelp, I again challenge you - if you truly have the best intentions for your customers, why don't do the following:
1. When you send out you monthly invoices and statements, include the usage stats for the past year for that customer in the email in relation to their caps / thresholds
2. Clearly disclose what the volume and throttle thresholds for all your packages are at any given time on your Legal Notices section on your website
3. If customers (especially those on month-to-month contracts) could clearly benefit either by opting for a faster connection or by switching to a cheaper package, proactively send those customer emails to them informing them accordingly. Any customer that received emails like that from any service provider would become extremely loyal customers.

1. Thanks for the suggestion;
2. thanks for the suggestion;
3. please refer to my previous response: Customers need to monitor their own usage and request to align their product to better suit their usage stats and connection speed.
 
Customers need to monitor their own usage and request to align their product to better suit their usage stats and connection speed.

Really? So why do you upgrade me to a higher connection speed I didn't ask for and my Telkom Exchange could not support?

And then you throttle my premium 4Mbps package I pay R539 per month for down to about 1Mbps when I exceed the my threshold, whereas customers with standard 20Mbps packages that pay R499 per month and only throttled down to 3.8Mbps?

And it's the customer's responsibility to monitor their usage, but you do this on a daily basis and have the capability to immediately throttle users when they exceed their threshold per their package, yet you don't publish these thresholds anywhere so how exactly do you expect users to align their products to something better that suits their usage stats when they have no idea what the differences are?
 
1. Thanks for the suggestion;
2. thanks for the suggestion;
3. please refer to my previous response: Customers need to monitor their own usage and request to align their product to better suit their usage stats and connection speed.

Great customer service there... Reads like:

1.) Fsck you customer
2.) Fsck you customer
3.) Fsck you, we don't care that we've been OVERBILLING you for years
4.) You aren't going to see a penny from us

That's enough to make me never consider Mweb again. Great job Mweb. Did you perhaps attend the same customer relations workshop as Ford?
 
I am currently on MWEB uncapped standard 10MB i can assure you its the worst uncapped on he market. Slow speeds 24/7, impossible to use MWEB for online gaming or even downloads. Most of the time i use my dads 40 gig Afrihost just to get some decent internet. If anyone here is thinking for signing up with MWEB, DONT DO IT
 
@Raees123
I am currently on MWEB uncapped standard 10MB i can assure you its the worst uncapped on he market. Slow speeds 24/7, impossible to use MWEB for online gaming or even downloads. Most of the time i use my dads 40 gig Afrihost just to get some decent internet. If anyone here is thinking for signing up with MWEB, DONT DO IT

and @jsheed_sa

Great customer service there... Reads like:

1.) Fsck you customer
2.) Fsck you customer
3.) Fsck you, we don't care that we've been OVERBILLING you for years
4.) You aren't going to see a penny from us

That's enough to make me never consider Mweb again. Great job Mweb. Did you perhaps attend the same customer relations workshop as Ford?

From a personal perspective, the fact is for years I blamed Telkom, and I am not going to deny that in my case attributing the majority of the blame on Telkom was quite justified. On at least 2 occasions in the past year (2016) I had faults logged with Telkom that were both open for 3+ weeks, and both those calls (combined) Telkom phoned me exactly once, and that was to only to ask me if I still had a problem? Really, like it magically fixed itself? Over that period I was at best connecting at 640Kbps on my 4Mbps ADSL line. Eventually I tried another modem, and magically I was suddenly able to connect at 3.2Mbps.

So ok, I concede the following: Was it Telkom's fault the problem was eventually directly attributed to a faulty modem? Well No and Yes.

No because my modem was obviously faulty.

But Yes, because how was I supposed to know? For 3 months nobody from Telkom bothered to investigate the problem, after I had logged two faults with them that were both each open for 3+ weeks, during which time they did absolutely. And nothing had changed when "they" closed the faults, my connection was still no better than 640Kbps after the faults were closed on both occasions. Their service technicians could have come out with another modem and tested it, and then simply informed me of their findings. It would have taken them 30 mins max. And I acknowledge that given that the fault was not on their side, Telkom may have been entitled to charge me a call-out fee (but not after taking 3 months and never actually ever even coming out to investigate).

And secondly Yes because my ADSL connection speed deteriorated gradually over the course of about 1 year. Initially from about 3.4Mbps, then down to about 2.3Mbps for a few months, then down to about 1.2Mbps for another month or so and eventually down to about 640Kbps for 3+ months. Was that MWEB's fault, no. And do I blame them for this? Absolutely not.

But when MWEB supposedly gave me a "FREE" upgrade to a Premium 6Mbps service in November 2016, with a higher threshold (800GB) before they would throttle me, did they bother to consider the information they had at hand on my account, such as insight into the fact that over the previous six month, my monthly usage was at most 100GB, and that at that time my connection speed, as they deemed it was Poor (640kps then). Did they care? No.

0001-128069942.png


I will note again for the record, that I do not, nor have I ever held MWEB accountable for the quality of my ADSL connection with Telkom. The relatively low monthly average volume of data I downloaded last year was not MWEB's fault (as least in my opinion). And, for the record, @MWEBhelp have since contacted me, and they did take the time to listen to my concerns / grievances that I have raised. Whether that translates to any real changes in their part remains to be seen. Furthermore I do not proceed or proclaim to hold MWEB liable for anything I've posted on this forum, from a legal perspective in any case. However if something is legal, does it mean it's ethical?

I would like to close this off with some food for thought.
MWEB - The Real Story (another post I wrote on a different forum on MyBroadband, but viewed in a slightly different light)
The Business Ethics Blog - What’s Legal Isn’t Always Ethical
Bloomberg - If It's Legal, It's Ethical…Right?
TechCentral: Q&A with MWeb CEO Rudi Jansen
Brainstorm: Uncapped ADSL – a workable business model?

To quote from the CEO of MWEB in 2010 (Rudi Jansen)
TechCentral
Do you have a fair-use policy for these new, uncapped offerings? If so, what does it entail?
I knew you were going to ask this [laughs]. Yes, we do, like any other ISP or telco in the world. We’ve looked at all of them and made sure we weren’t any different from the big ones like France Telecom, BT, Sky and Virgin. So, yes, we have a fair-use policy, but the idea of it is to ensure the abusers don’t spoil it for everyone. We have no intention of shaping bandwidth more than is necessary in peak network conditions. It’s not dramatic shaping at all, and it’s only in peak hours. This is not a big issue. Everyone makes it out to be a big issue, but it’s not.

What will you do with users who use peer-to-peer services like BitTorrent, and people who stream audio and video online?
What [the fair-use policy is] there for is to stop, say, someone who hosts a website with 80 000 movies on it, and invites other people to download from their server. We won’t go after people who are using [the service] for their own personal use.

So if I want to listen to streaming music or watch streaming video all day, that’s not an issue for MWeb?
No, it’s not.

Brainstorm
Asked about his competitors arguing about the sustainability of the uncapped ADSL business model, MWeb CEO Rudi Jansen is blunt.

“The longer they wonder about it, the more customers I’ll get.”

MWeb ISP boss Derek Hershaw weighs in:

“MWeb as a business is profitable, and we remain profitable going into this next phase of our business. We’ve got a fantastic shareholder in Naspers, and they’ve made a sizable investment in the business. But if we get the growth that we are looking for – and if today is anything to go by, we certainly will – the model certainly works.” “Of course it’s sustainable,” Jansen argues. It’s “absolutely” a scale game.

“The more people, the better.”

What did Internet Solutions think about it at that time?

On a conference call with resellers in late April, IS’ product team admitted that the service is not as good as it could be.

So what's happened since then?
Derek Hershaw has gone on to become the CEO of MWEB - nice reward there!
Internet Solutions figured that if they can't beat MWEB. they will just buy them.
Internet Solutions to snap up MWEB

It looks like it's a win/win for everyone except their customers!
 
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