MWEB Uncapped ADSL Feedback - Part 2

[reactor_sa]

Maybe so, but I have never received any warning from MWEB before this crappy email. So I believe my usage must have been fine up until some decided it was not yesterday.

I am not blaming you, as you are trying, but all we getting is talk. No rules, and as I posted already, I am using my line as advertised. I have looked at out our usage. Streaming video (mostly at night), torrents for downloading Linux ditros and the like to play with (never more than 20KB/s), kids watching Minecraft youtube videos (many are HD) and general browsing. I still believe I am within the rules of the AUP and your advert.

I am not up to argue about it anymore, as MWEB are not giving us the rules. I have signed up with another ISP and will be leaving.

Same, I've never received any type of warning or email from abuse@mweb before this generic email yesterday. This would definitely imply that the aup has been changed from 1 September 2013.
Since the aup indicates that premium uncapped usage will be 'managed' to ensure 'non-excessive' usage by limiting speed (ie. Throttling) then how does premium uncapped differ from regular uncapped which has always been throttled??
For the same price as mweb premium uncapped 2mbps I can get afrihost 4mbps uncapped instead. Where do you think I'm going to be taking my money asap....

 

[MWEBHelp]

Same, I've never received any type of warning or email from abuse@mweb before this generic email yesterday. This would definitely imply that the aup has been changed from 1 September 2013.
Since the aup indicates that premium uncapped usage will be 'managed' to ensure 'non-excessive' usage by limiting speed (ie. Throttling) then how does premium uncapped differ from regular uncapped which has always been throttled??
For the same price as mweb premium uncapped 2mbps I can get afrihost 4mbps uncapped instead. Where do you think I'm going to be taking my money asap....

Hi reactor_sa

Previous discretionary methods such as sending warnings to abusive customers have not proved to be effective in managing this behavior. Enforcing our AUP will automate this.

Standard products are more affordable and aimed at the casual uncapped user, with a lower throttled rate.

Our premium products have more relaxed speed limits and these will only be applied when usage reaches levels which we deem to be abusive. The parameters for bandwidth management are more lenient on our Premium Products and will only affect a very small percentage of our customers.

 

[MWEBHelp]

? Don't understand the question?

Hi zs6cey

The email you received from us, what did it say?

 

[ViGouR]

I've also never received a prior warning to excessive usage, and I do not really consider myself a heavy user, mainly only gaming online occasionally and downloading Steam games perhaps one or two a month. I did however during the Steam summer sale buy quite a lot of games and downloaded about 150gb worth of games 24/7.
So I have two questions:
1) Steam's distributing servers in SA (the one I use anyway) is a MWeb content server. Does heavy usage to this service trigger the fair usage policy?
2) It sounds to me that rather 24/7 downloading is the problem, than using 150gb in July on a 1mbps line, am I correct on this?

 

[Fulcrum29]

That's because they were discretionary maybe?

You guys all need to calm down a tad. I've been with MWEB Uncapped since day one as well and I've seen all the highs and lows of their service and all of the abuse fights pass through here. The fact is they have tried lots of other ways of dealing with the worst of the worst and I guess it just hasn't worked very well, becuase there will always be some guys who are 'the reason that we can't have nice things'. I run a busy house with multiple devices streaming video and all of the things some1 else pointed out here and I blow through several hundred gig a month as well. Guess what? No letter. So I guess the guys here telling that story are holding back some on the stuff they're doing that's blowing through the other 'few hundred gig?'

Just my 2c

When you want to deal with the worst then you have to state parameters or variables on a month-to-month or predetermined period basis.

Going through here, http://www.mweb.co.za/legalpolicies/GeneralPage/AcceptableUsePolicy.aspx, they may act on principle and within reason as with many cases reported here, but they state no limits (no caps) etc. Users are unable to control their own data usage patterns, remember uncapped means uncapped as advertised but it is supported by the T&C’s, not only to protect the company (Mweb) in this case but also the customer(s). Users will generally use a service as being advertised, many users will stick to layman terms than reading an AUP or T&C’s, things should work as is (advertised) and it is normally these people who will complain when something is not working as per say yesterday.

I would also like to see amendment dates coupled with their T&C’s (and policies), especially with the AUP as it can change without notice. The users need to know what is going on rather than being bombarded with 30-day rolling windows and severe throttling, in my sincere opinion any paying customer should know exactly where his/her hard-earned money is going.

What is happening is that the customers are paying to utilise a service which is entirely managed on the providers own discretion (to keep everything within capacity) no matter what was initially advertised, thus you see users complaining about a degrading user experience, this has nothing to do with how much data the user(s) download/upload. That varying 1-5% network abusing users should know their limits stated by Mweb and should they exceed these limits, then appropriate punishment is in order.

People protecting these actions, should also not run to the CPA when things don’t suit them.

 

[chris_meier]

View attachment 64225

I received one of these mails, is my usage excessive? 2mb uncapped

What do you have to say about this MWEB Guy - and try for something original, not the usual copy/paste BS you've resorted to. This clearly suggests that anything over 130GB is deemed abusive. My usage patterns are similar, and the first time I get a 'warning' is yesterday.
Admit that you don't want to give specific numbers because this would invalidate any claims of uncapped. I fully understand the need to do something about people abusing the network, but how in gods name is 200GB abusive in this day and age? Your superiors do use the Internet? They do understand it is about more than just Facebook and Twitter? I guess you should also stop promoting your product for DSTV since if anyone, god forbids, actually decides to use your network to watch a 'Box Office' movie, they will be seen as abusive.
MWEB Guy - take a break, and tell your superiors to take some responsibility for their stuff up. I sure they never imagined that the 3% would also be so vocal.

 

[zs6cey]

Hi zs6cey

The email you received from us, what did it say?

Hi MWEB Guy,

It is the same email everyone got yesterday. It says that "customers are not abusing certain defined parameters." and "Your usage is currently exceeding these parameters". But we do not know what the parameters are I have exceeded - as they are defined, surely we are entitled to know these defined parameters. I average 300 - 400 GB per month on my Premier 4Gig line. This implies that this amount exceeds one of your parameters. You then stated above that this is not excessive. Make up you mind! Also, I do not download 24/7, and even if a torrent does run for 24 hours or more, I have limited my download speed to 20KB/s and upload to 5KB/s - not excess I would have thought! My son uses Steam, and I know he does downloag games, I am not sure if you can limit the bandwidth used by Steam.

 

[mikef]

Hi Hobgob

these mailers were only sent out today to a very small group of customers, making up less than 3% of our subscribers. The list was compiled based on average usage patterns over the last few months with the intention of making sure that customers likely to be impacted by the change in the manner in which we are enforcing the policy have time to adjust their behavior before the system kicks in from the 1st of September.

We understand that this comes as a suprise and that some people are always going to be unhappy when you make changes, but we honestly feel that this is the best move to ensure that MWEB maintains a world class network experience that all of our customers can enjoy.

We're not asking you to stop enjoying the uncapped experience and count every byte that you download. Just take a more sensible approach to unattended bulk downloads. Spread things out a bit more and try to consider the impact that your usage is having on other customers to avoid the unpleasantness of having your speeds temporarily reduced.

Regarding the requests for a numeric limit guys please understand that this was the first question we anticipated when deciding on this change and its probably the one question that we can't answer.

The manner in which we apply the policy is based on a combination of network performance factors coupled with a 30 day rolling usage window for the individual user.

You will find that if you look at the acceptable usage policy of other providers, none of them publish a fixed numeric limit because none of them apply the policy in this way.

What I can assure you of is that the parameters we are applying affect less than 3% of our customers and our goal remains to ensure that our premium uncapped products provide the most superior and unrestricted Internet experience possible.

The unfortunate truth, if you have received one of these letters, is that your usage would most likely be deemed excessive by any of the uncapped providers in the market and you would find yourself subject to some sort of restrictions even if you move providers.

Hi

You are correct with your summary:

Standard uncapped is throttled.
Premium uncapped is not throttled.

I'm not going to comment on the accuracy of your sums , but I do think that your assumption that the bulk of these customers will cancel is way off the mark.

I would say that the majority of these excessive users are well aware of the fact that they fall into this category already.

Many of them have probably received some sort of warning already and may already have moved between providers because of the nature of their usage.

we're not changing the rules of the game, just the way we enforce them and in the long run if these users are able to limit their behavior appropriately they will find that they're still getting the most relaxed uncapped experience available on a superior network.

Hi rambo919

The letter was not sent based on your current usage, but rather looking at the trend over the past few months. It also states you might be impacted by this if you do not change your usage patterns.

We have always enforced our acceptable usage policy however as from the 1st of September we will be changing the method for doing this on our Premium Products.

Rather than issue warnings and suspend services as we have done in the past we will instead be applying temporary speed limits to users with excessive behaviour, based on a rolling 30 day window.

We are confident that this will be a much more efficient way of doing things and should have a positive impact on the network experience for all of our customers.

I also received a letter effectively stating that I am abusing certain defined parameters.

As a mweb subscriber since the introduction of their uncapped products (both the 4mb uncapped and currently the 1mb uncapped) I have never received any previous warning or abuse notification of which I am aware. My average usage per month is about 140GB. Calling Mweb support re above letter I was told that this mailer was sent to all uncapped subscribers exceeding 100GB usage per month and they do not know what the actual parameters applied will be. I am also trying to establish if the 1mb uncapped(premium) and 2mb uncapped products are now being treated the same.

Based on above quotes certain info seems contradictory with what I was told and I would be surprised if less than 3% of mweb's uncapped subscribers are using under 100GB per month - please clarify.

 

[Krypty]

Morning Mweb

Can you please post the cancellation procedures and forms on this thread as an attachment.

Really appreciated

 

[MWEBHelp]

Hi MWEB Guy,

It is the same email everyone got yesterday. It says that "customers are not abusing certain defined parameters." and "Your usage is currently exceeding these parameters". But we do not know what the parameters are I have exceeded - as they are defined, surely we are entitled to know these defined parameters. I average 300 - 400 GB per month on my Premier 4Gig line. This implies that this amount exceeds one of your parameters. You then stated above that this is not excessive. Make up you mind! Also, I do not download 24/7, and even if a torrent does run for 24 hours or more, I have limited my download speed to 20KB/s and upload to 5KB/s - not excess I would have thought! My son uses Steam, and I know he does downloag games, I am not sure if you can limit the bandwidth used by Steam.

Hi zs6cey

That's the thing, not everybody received an email as only 3% of our customer base who abused the Network received emails. The emails are not the same.

Your email reads: Your usage is currently exceeding these parameters. From the 1 September, if you continue to show excessive usage patterns, you will experience slower connection speeds ( while we manage your bandwidth ) As soon as your usage patterns stabilise your connection speeds will return to normal.

It is not saying you are going to be but might be affect by the AUP.

So, first see how the connection goes for you before making a decision about the product.

 

[rambo919]

Calling Mweb support re above letter I was told that this mailer was sent to all uncapped subscribers exceeding 100GB usage per month and they do not know what the actual parameters applied will be..

Busted, I suspected this was just a rock into the bush scare tactic that now obviously backfired.

 

[ponder]

View attachment 64225

I received one of these mails, is my usage excessive? 2mb uncapped

That's an average of 146GB/month (not counting the months of august). On a 2Mb/s line that is really not much.

 

[zs6cey]

Hi zs6cey

That's the thing, not everybody received an email as only 3% of our customer base who abused the Network received emails. The emails are not the same.

Your email reads: Your usage is currently exceeding these parameters. From the 1 September, if you continue to show excessive usage patterns, you will experience slower connection speeds ( while we manage your bandwidth ) As soon as your usage patterns stabilise your connection speeds will return to normal.

It is not saying you are going to be but might be affect by the AUP.

So, first see how the connection goes for you before making a decision about the product.

Give me the DEFINED parameters that it will be decided on (as per my email) and then I can try do something. Else your reply and email is meaningless!

 

[zs6cey]

Hi zs6cey

That's the thing, not everybody received an email as only 3% of our customer base who abused the Network received emails.

So you saying I am abusing the Network! Tell me where I am abusing it and I can change - innocent until proven guilt!

 

[zs6cey]

Based on above quotes certain info seems contradictory with what I was told and I would be surprised if less than 3% of mweb's uncapped subscribers are using under 100GB per month - please clarify.

If this true (and I suspect it might be), and you on a 1meg line, then me on a 4 meg line should be allowed 400Gig, and I am well within in that, so why the letter?

 

[Bryn]

Hi Bryn26

Not every user is subject to the rolling window if they stay within the parameters.
The requests for a numeric limit was the first question we anticipated when deciding on this change and its probably the one question that we can't answer.
The manner in which we apply the policy is based on a combination of network performance factors coupled with a 30 day rolling usage window for the individual user.

I understand that an exact figure can be difficult to derive in these matters, but you can't just leave people high and dry. If it isn't even possible to give a data range that could result in throttling (say between 60 and 70% line utilisation) then your system is very hazy. Or at least disclose the average data consumption for the top 3% of Mweb's uncapped DSL users. If Mweb anticipated this question being asked then a more meaningful answer should have been provided.

 

[GreyBush]

That's an average of 146GB/month (not counting the months of august). On a 2Mb/s line that is really not much.

That's what I thought...

 

[Seriously]

Hi MWEB Guy,

It is the same email everyone got yesterday. It says that "customers are not abusing certain defined parameters." and "Your usage is currently exceeding these parameters". But we do not know what the parameters are I have exceeded - as they are defined, surely we are entitled to know these defined parameters. I average 300 - 400 GB per month on my Premier 4Gig line. This implies that this amount exceeds one of your parameters. You then stated above that this is not excessive. Make up you mind! Also, I do not download 24/7, and even if a torrent does run for 24 hours or more, I have limited my download speed to 20KB/s and upload to 5KB/s - not excess I would have thought! My son uses Steam, and I know he does download games, I am not sure if you can limit the bandwidth used by Steam.

That would be crazy as thats why we buy an uncapped service. Mweb just showed their old Naspers draconian face and that means they reversed years of improvement to the Internet community in South Africa. Their CEO is an arse they should get Rudy back. BTW their "engineers doing the "shaping" and throttling are useless as it seems to know fsckall about what they are doing, they are experimenting this new enforced throlling on a live system therefore IMHO the bad experience we had the past few months.

Mwebguy just tow the CEO line for Naspers profit as they have no more authority like they used to have. That's sad. They are now just like a call centre repeating the same garbage (lying) with no real action or support.

 

[MWEBHelp]

That's what I thought...

Hi GreyBush

Please see PM I sent you.

 

[Grimster101]

I also received a letter effectively stating that I am abusing certain defined parameters.

As a mweb subscriber since the introduction of their uncapped products (both the 4mb uncapped and currently the 1mb uncapped) I have never received any previous warning or abuse notification of which I am aware. My average usage per month is about 140GB. Calling Mweb support re above letter I was told that this mailer was sent to all uncapped subscribers exceeding 100GB usage per month and they do not know what the actual parameters applied will be. I am also trying to establish if the 1mb uncapped(premium) and 2mb uncapped products are now being treated the same.

Based on above quotes certain info seems contradictory with what I was told and I would be surprised if less than 3% of mweb's uncapped subscribers are using under 100GB per month - please clarify.

Yeah. I also got this email too!

Not happy. I hardly download 24/7 and when I do it's not very long or at full speed. I try manage my speed when Im able to do so and don't have to get what Im waiting for asap. So all in all, I feel this is really bad. I might just cancel with Mweb if this is how it's going to be. Specially if they refuse to provide any actual limit of what is considered "abusive"

I mean really.. Im on a 1Mbit line. I do not download 24/7 and every day of the month. Im definitely not happy about this email

They said that I would be throttled down on the 1st of September. Well Im already throttled down by the looks of it. I can't even download a forum backup file at full speed anymore.

Yesterday I had to download a game build test as I work for a game studio and I was getting like 20KB's! The download was only 300MB's too.