My little Xbox game engine discussion

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DarkWater

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This is something I've been pondering about for quite some time now and so I've decided to start a little discussion about it just 2 see what you folks think.

The past couple of weeks I've been playing Fallout 3 and Fable 2 which is really fun but there's this one thing that bugs me. It seems that most Xbox games are some form of the Havok or Unreal engine or whatever. Now I'm not really sure at what FPS games such as Fallout 3 or Fable 2 runs at but I guess it's about 30 or so although I might be wrong.

Yesterday I decided to pop in Devil May Cry 4 which uses some Capcom engine (I forgot the name) and is suppose to be the same engine being used by the upcoming Resident Evil 5. Now seriously...DMC must run at something like 60FPS (Burnout Paradise comes to mind) and even though the graphics might not look as good as say err...Fable 2, it still looks damn great but let's forget graphics for a while and just focus on the frames at work here. At 60FPS this game plays like butter. It's smooth, responsive, fluid and quick to your key strokes. Now returning back to Fallout 3 it just feels stuttery, grainy and "slow". Point is I can immediately feel the change and it really annoys in comparison with DMC or even Sega SuperStar Tennis.

I love Fallout 3 etc....but TBH, when I play games such as DMC4 (even if I does not compare to Fallout 3 in terms of depth etc.) it still feels like this is how games are suppose to run.

Maybe it's just me.
 
DarKWateR said:
This is something I've been pondering about for quite some time now and so I've decided to start a little discussion about it just 2 see what you folks think.

The past couple of weeks I've been playing Fallout 3 and Fable 2 which is really fun but there's this one thing that bugs me. It seems that most Xbox games are some form of the Havok or Unreal engine or whatever. Now I'm not really sure at what FPS games such as Fallout 3 or Fable 2 runs at but I guess it's about 30 or so although I might be wrong.

Yesterday I decided to pop in Devil May Cry 4 which uses some Capcom engine (I forgot the name) and is suppose to be the same engine being used by the upcoming Resident Evil 5. Now seriously...DMC must run at something like 60FPS (Burnout Paradise comes to mind) and even though the graphics might not look as good as say err...Fable 2, it still looks damn great but let's forget graphics for a while and just focus on the frames at work here. At 60FPS this game plays like butter. It's smooth, responsive, fluid and quick to your key strokes. Now returning back to Fallout 3 it just feels stuttery, grainy and "slow". Point is I can immediately feel the change and it really annoys in comparison with DMC or even Sega SuperStar Tennis.

I love Fallout 3 etc....but TBH, when I play games such as DMC4 (even if I does not compare to Fallout 3 in terms of depth etc.) it still feels like this is how games are suppose to run.

Maybe it's just me.
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Interesting comparison. I wouldn't compare those 3 personally... they're in genres of their own (fallout3/fable2 not so much, they're both rpgs) but DMC has faster paced gameplay (take the fights that take place as an example).
 
Optioncarduser said:
Interesting comparison. I wouldn't compare those 3 personally... they're in genres of their own (fallout3/fable2 not so much, they're both rpgs) but DMC has faster paced gameplay (take the fights that take place as an example).
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I hear you but I'm not really focusing on the actual gameplay but more of the motion of the moment and feeling of the games. I don't even have 2 fight or anything in DMC but just walk in a small circle to notice it immediately and I can promise you Resident Evil 5 will be just as smooth. Fallout 3 and even sometimes Fable 2 has framerate drops to the point where it sometimes gets jittery especially when there's multiple enemies onscreen. Even Mass Effect has framerate problems and so does Oblivion (same engine as Fallout 3).

I'm just beginning to wonder how optimized these games are for the consoles. I can promise you Gears runs much faster and smoother than most Xbox third person shooters.
 
DarKWateR said:
I hear you but I'm not really focusing on the actual gameplay but more of the motion of the moment and feeling of the games. I don't even have 2 fight or anything in DMC but just walk in a small circle to notice it immediately and I can promise you Resident Evil 5 will be just as smooth. Fallout 3 and even sometimes Fable 2 has framerate drops to the point where it sometimes gets jittery especially when there's multiple enemies onscreen. Even Mass Effect has framerate problems and so does Oblivion (same engine as Fallout 3).

I'm just beginning to wonder how optimized these games are for the consoles. I can promise you Gears runs much faster and smoother than most Xbox third person shooters.
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Havok is not a game engine but it's a physics system that can be incorporated into game engines. E.g halo 3 uses a custom engine but it incorporates the havoc physics system.

Gears 1 and Mass effect technically uses the same UE3 engine. other engines in use on current gen consoles include renderware (burnout paradise uses it and sonic the hedgehog) Devil may cry 4 uses the MT framework Engine from Capcom which is an enhanced version of the MT framework Engine that was used in Lost Planet and which RE5 probably also use. There is also the hydracore engine which perfect Dark Zero uses the rage engine which Rockstar table tennis, gta4 and midnight club 4 use and there's the neon engine from CMR Dirt and Grid and Then there's also the dunia engine from Farcry2.

Most people tend to think that 90% of xbox 360 games run on UE3 which is a very common engine but they're wrong as u can see.
 
Dohc-WP said:
Havok is not a game engine but it's a physics system that can be incorporated into game engines. E.g halo 3 uses a custom engine but it incorporates the havoc physics system.

Gears 1 and Mass effect technically uses the same UE3 engine. other engines in use on current gen consoles include renderware (burnout paradise uses it and sonic the hedgehog) Devil may cry 4 uses the MT framework Engine from Capcom which is an enhanced version of the MT framework Engine that was used in Lost Planet and which RE5 probably also use. There is also the hydracore engine which perfect Dark Zero uses the rage engine which Rockstar table tennis, gta4 and midnight club 4 use and there's the neon engine from CMR Dirt and Grid and Then there's also the dunia engine from Farcry2.

Most people tend to think that 90% of xbox 360 games run on UE3 which is a very common engine but they're wrong as u can see.
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Sorry about the Havok mistake but I do know that only a few games run on the UE3 engine. The question is how well are they optimized.
 
Oblivion and Fallout 3 run on the Gamebryo engine, which has been known to suffer from micro-stutter and lag from time to time. I have both on PC, and I've noticed the micro stutter from time to time in Oblivion. Haven't really played too much Fallout 3 though.

Compared to UE3, Gamebryo is not used by that many developers. UE3 is highly advanced, and Epic have been polishing that code for a while now, and along with the experience of UE2, they know what works or not.
 
DarKWateR said:
Sorry about the Havok mistake but I do know that only a few games run on the UE3 engine. The question is how well are they optimized.
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As well as the developers could. This is not something anyone that did not work with these engines before can actually answer.
 
It will be very dependant on the engine used and how graphically extensive the games are. Fallout and Oblivion are both huge open worlds, while DMC is linear and cordoned off in sections, that load individually when entering a new area etc.
But i hear you, DMC4 plays brilliantly, it's silky smooth and blindingly fast. Fantastic game.
 
I personally think the UE3 is brilliant. And yes, there are many games on the XBOX that use this engine. Games that come to mind include:
- Unreal Tournament 3 (obviously)
- Gears of War 1 and 2
- Bioshock
- Mass Effect
- Rainbox Six Vegas 1 and 2
- Too Human
- Medal of Honor: Airborne

I'd still like to see a developer implement a racing game with UE3 :p
 
wont the new operation flashpoint be based on the Grid engine? not quite your wish though Farlig
 
FarligOpptreden said:
I personally think the UE3 is brilliant. And yes, there are many games on the XBOX that use this engine. Games that come to mind include:
- Unreal Tournament 3 (obviously)
- Gears of War 1 and 2
- Bioshock
- Mass Effect
- Rainbox Six Vegas 1 and 2
- Too Human
- Medal of Honor: Airborne

I'd still like to see a developer implement a racing game with UE3 :p
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Other games i know of that uses Ue3 are
Fatal Inertia (It is a racing game BTW ;) with weapons)
Frontlines fuel of war
Halo wars (coming soon)
Stranglehold
MK vs Dc Universe
Lost odyssey
The last remnant
The wheelman (another racing game with vin diesel due out next year)

There are alot more but I cant think of their names now

The only reason UE3 is used so much by companies is because renderware which was the most used and most common engine available was dissolved into EA (in 2005) and thus is not available to other companies anymore. The only non EA game that came out in 2007 Crackdown uses renderware BTW
 
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Oh yes, I forgot about MK vs DC :p

I'm not too familiar with Fatal Inertia, btw. Must be a B-grade game... ;)
 
Well I just download the Resident Evil 5 Demo....will check it out tonight and compare it's improved version of the MT Framework engine against the UT Engine.
 
DarKWateR said:
Well I just download the Resident Evil 5 Demo....will check it out tonight and compare it's improved version of the MT Framework engine against the UT Engine.
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Was grabbing that from Newshost yesterday...must remember to burn it to disk and try it tonight! :D
 
The thing to remember with game engines is that they are essentially the core code of a game and they control more than just the games graphics. The AI, the music, etc. So, depending on what you're trying to achieve a different engine/core code may be more applicable. Fable 2 and Fallout 3 are not action games per se, so fast pasted action sequences arent required.. But quality story telling, compelling AI is. Remember, every gaming console has finite resources, so distributing those resources is important. If running Fallout at 60FPS means you lose out on story and depth and so, then it kinda of defeats the purpose of the game.
 
FarligOpptreden said:
I personally think the UE3 is brilliant. And yes, there are many games on the XBOX that use this engine. Games that come to mind include:
- Unreal Tournament 3 (obviously)
- Gears of War 1 and 2
- Bioshock
- Mass Effect
- Rainbox Six Vegas 1 and 2
- Too Human
- Medal of Honor: Airborne

I'd still like to see a developer implement a racing game with UE3 :p
Click to expand...

Did some research last nite and found out that Bioshock actually uses Unreal Engine 2.5 with tiny bits of UE3 but its still not a true UE 3 game ! Its amazing what the old second gen Unreal engine is still capable of SC: Double Agent also used UE 2.5 BTW
 
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