Nanny ill - Payment?

MidnightZA said:
If employees are frequently "ill" I'm sure the employer can ask for a sick note even if it's one or two days especially if the sick day falls on a Monday or a Friday.

If you as an employer feel your employee is faking ill. Is it acceptable to ask for a sick note even in the case of one day sick leave?
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The act covers this as well.

23. Proof of incapacity.—(1) An employer is not required to pay an employee in terms of section 22 if the employee has been absent from work for more than two consecutive days or on more than two occasions during an eight-week period and, on request by the employer, does not produce a medical certificate stating that the employee was unable to work for the duration of the employee’s absence on account of sickness or injury.

(2) The medical certificate must be issued and signed by a medical practitioner or any other person who is certified to diagnose and treat patients and who is registered with a professional council established by an Act of Parliament.

(3) If it is not reasonably practicable for an employee who lives on the employer’s premises to obtain a medical certificate, the employer may not withhold payment in terms of subsection (1) unless the employer provides reasonable assistance to the employee to obtain the certificate.
 
MidnightZA said:
If employees are frequently "ill" I'm sure the employer can ask for a sick note even if it's one or two days especially if the sick day falls on a Monday or a Friday.

If you as an employer feel your employee is faking ill. Is it acceptable to ask for a sick note even in the case of one day sick leave?
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That is define as more than two occasions in an 8 week period. Then yes you can insist on a sick note for one days sick leave. Or when they as sick on two consecutive days.
 
Dolby said:
So that's where my gut is going - but I'm still fair and do the right thing.

She's been with us with under 6 months and Friday it started with not feeling great. Either Sunday or Monday she did go to a clinic, I hear. This clinic told her she feels bad due to high blood pressure.

I'm wondering if this clinic told her to stay off Tuesday? In other words, have they given a certificate and I can ask?
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Pay her, then get rid of her.

Sounds like issues are coming your way from her regardless.
For your next hire, make sure to have a contract in place, as SA law is on the side of the employee, not the employer, and you can get screwed over easily otherwise.
 
Dolby said:
So that's where my gut is going - but I'm still fair and do the right thing.

She's been with us with under 6 months and Friday it started with not feeling great. Either Sunday or Monday she did go to a clinic, I hear. This clinic told her she feels bad due to high blood pressure.

I'm wondering if this clinic told her to stay off Tuesday? In other words, have they given a certificate and I can ask?
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It doesn't seem like frequent absenteeism yet. I would say dont question it now but if it becomes more frequent then you can request the certificates.

Trust is a two way street. You want your employees to be happy with their place of work especially ones handling your kids when you arent around.
 
Congrats on the twins .
Just say that u want to be sure its not contagious as the babies are still young so u need a certificate from the doctor before she comes back. If she makes excuses, u know.

I have had nannies and Domestics for a long time, and with December approaching some start with "health issues" so that they can take a nice long December vacation.
What's ur plan for next month? Have u spoken to her if she is going to work in December?
 
Our sick leave rules are a bit over the top. Not every minor illness require a visit to the doctor just to get a sick certificate which ends up costing the employee more money than its worth.

My wife was in the UK for a year and they allow for self certification of sick leave if you are off for 7 days or less. This is to prevent every other person with the cold or flu having to take up resources at the NHS just to get a fit note from a medical practitioner.

The BCEA is also a guideline with minimums listed but employers can choose to provide better benefits than those on the BCEA.
 
Dolby said:
If I don't attend work either Monday or Friday, I'm asked for a medical certificate. If I provide, great - if I don't, then it's unpaid. That's pretty much most companies.

I don't think my boss will say 'argh it's day or two'
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Not all companies. I can be absent any day of the week and I've never been asked for a medical certificate. I made 101% sure that I inform my employer though - so they can manage their timelines for my deliverables.

In your case, she did inform you.

Also, what kind of a parent are you to even consider not paying her? Would you rather have a sick person around your kids?
 
Herr der Verboten said:
You seem tense. Do you want to share your feelings?
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I don't understand that there is law created to protect the interests of both employee and employer interests. And at our own discretion, we can choose to ignore. Sometimes. When we want.
 
Dolby said:
I don't understand that there is law created to protect the interests of both employee and employer interests. And at our own discretion, we can choose to ignore. Sometimes. When we want.
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While I do agree; you yourself neglected the system and it's rules which brings in a bit of irony if you are going to lament about it failing to even to something as simple as a contract.
 
The_Ogre said:
Not all companies. I can be absent any day of the week and I've never been asked for a medical certificate. I made 101% sure that I inform my employer though - so they can manage their timelines for my deliverables.

In your case, she did inform you.

Also, what kind of a parent are you to even consider not paying her? Would you rather have a sick person around your kids?
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It's high blood pressure.

I'm not sure if that is contiguous or not?

And it was only when we pushed yesterday 'please tell us if you're coming' that we got the answer. From Friday up until we pushed , the texts were 'I feel weak. Going to the clinic.'
 
azbob said:
It’s just one day, pay her. Don’t be one of those people who expect someone to get a medical certificate for every little thing.
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Dolby said:
So to be clear, you don't follow BCEA?
Easier to do your own thing and that is how you run your company?

If you're hiring, I'm keen!

We don't need rules anyway!
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Dolby said:
I don't understand that there is law created to protect the interests of both employee and employer interests. And at our own discretion, we can choose to ignore. Sometimes. When we want.
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You’re the one ignoring the law. It’s already been shown that she doesn’t require a sick note at this stage yet you continue about using the law at our own discretion.

So we come back to: it’s only one day, pay her.
 
Herr der Verboten said:
While I do agree; you yourself neglected the system and it's rules which brings in a bit of irony if you are going to lament about it failing to even to something as simple as a contract.
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Lament is wrong word for what you're trying to get across, I'm sure?
 
azbob said:
You’re the one ignoring the law. It’s already been shown that she doesn’t require a sick note at this stage yet you continue about using the law at our own discretion.

So we come back to: it’s only one day, pay her.
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*I asked a question
*I got the answer
*I'm paying her

I'm replying to the other comments?
 
Dolby said:
It's high blood pressure.

I'm not sure if that is contiguous or not?

And it was only when we pushed yesterday 'please tell us if you're coming' that we got the answer. From Friday up until we pushed , the texts were 'I feel weak. Going to the clinic.'
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OK, then I stand corrected.

Follow the law though. She does not work on Mondays. If she did not go in on Friday, she can still stay home today, but if she's not in tomorrow, you send her a message informing her that you need a medical certificate from the clinic and if she does not furnish same, you are going to institute disciplinary measures.

Remember, a contract does not have to be on paper. In your case, it's implicit and backed by the BCEA. If she's absent tomorrow without a certificate, it will be AWOL and constitute absenteeism which is a dismissible offence. Give her a first verbal warning and then do not pay her.
 
The_Ogre said:
OK, then I stand corrected.

Follow the law though. She does not work on Mondays. If she did not go in on Friday, she can still stay home today, but if she's not in tomorrow, you send her a message informing her that you need a medical certificate from the clinic and if she does not furnish same, you are going to institute disciplinary measures.

Remember, a contract does not have to be on paper. In your case, it's implicit and backed by the BCEA. If she's absent tomorrow without a certificate, it will be AWOL and constitute absenteeism which is a dismissible offence. Give her a first verbal warning and then do not pay her.
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Thanks man

I'm very fair - so when the protests a few months back may have affected her route, I told her stay home. I often told her to come in late / leave early and I'll look after the kids. When they went to hospital, we asked her to join and gave all meals etc to her. Hell, we had a private ward for the babies and she caught up on sleep while the babies napped.

But this incident just felt... Wrong. It felt like she was building up a few days ago. And if she went to the clinic, I'd imagine a sick note and in that case there'd be no MyBB post

I'd like to do things legally correct as I believe there needs to be consistency in treatment. Otherwise a precedent can be set.

I wasn't complaining - I just want to know what (legally) should be done.
 
joker08 said:
Just say that u want to be sure its not contagious as the babies are still young so u need a certificate from the doctor before she comes back. If she makes excuses, u know
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If she makes excuses you’ll know you what? That she’s not healthy?
 
Dolby said:
Thanks man

I'm very fair - so when the protests a few months back may have affected her route, I told her stay home. I often told her to come in late / leave early and I'll look after the kids. When they went to hospital, we asked her to join and gave all meals etc to her. Hell, we had a private ward for the babies and she caught up on sleep while the babies napped.

But this incident just felt... Wrong. It felt like she was building up a few days ago. And if she went to the clinic, I'd imagine a sick note and in that case there'd be no MyBB post

I'd like to do things legally correct as I believe there needs to be consistency in treatment. Otherwise a precedent can be set.

I wasn't complaining - I just want to know what (legally) should be done.
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My 2 cents.

Unfortunately, she smells weakness, and is now into abusing a pushover. Give an inch and a mile will be taken.

I'd have a proper chat with her about whether she wants to continue working. Actually I'd let her go already, as you've already said there have been a few things you're not comfortable with.
 
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