Need help setting up this configuration (If possible)

[MDT]

Hello,

I'm writing this, and hoping for assistance setting up a home network. My experience is limited when working with networks, and I must admit, I find it annoying!

Desired set-up:

See also DesiredSetup.png for a graphical presentation

Telkom ADSL line connected to the Belkin N+ Wireless Router Modem
The Belkin N+ Wireless Router Modem hard-wired to the D-Link DIR-655 XTREME N Gigabit Router
Why? I wish to share my Internet connection with multiple computers. The main reason I wish to use the D-Link DIR-655 is the Belkin N+ is out of range, and due to the limiting range issues, as well as electromagnetic interference, the signal dies for instance in my kitchen
The D-Link DIR-655 XTREME N Gigabit Router hard-wired to the Wired PC
Other computers, and the PS3 connected wireless to the D-Link DIR-655


Currently, for the Wired PC:

I'm hard-wired to the D-Link DIR-655, but no internet connection
Wireless connected to the Belkin N+, and have internet connection (And for some odd reason, only connected wireless if I'm hard-wired to the Belkin N+)
If possible, would like to be connected to the internet wireless via the Belkin N+, and hard wired via the D-Link DIR-655

Currently, for the Wireless PC:

Connected to the D-Link DIR-655 wireless network, but no internet connection

What I've tried:

I'm sure it's due to the IP Addresses, and the DHCP settings. What I did was, I disabled the DHCP setting on the Belkin N+, assigned it to a static IP (same range as the D-Link DIR-655). Next, I kept the DHCP on the D-Link DIR-655 enabled, and hoped for the best!

Also, hard-wired the Belkin N+ to the Wired PC, on the LAN1 port. Then, shared that internet connection with LAN2 port. Still no connectivity.

Hoping for the best was obviously not a good approach, hence why I'm here!

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

I'd like to apologise though if I'm a nuisance, and if this has been addressed before. I skimmed through a few threads, but couldn't find anything relevant. If anything is unclear, on the sketch, or in the description I've given, please ask and I'll try my best to make it clear.

Regards,
Martin

 

[Conradl]

Its late and I don't know if I read your post correctly, its pretty long Try putting all devices on the same range, and use your WAP as a switch, i.e. don't confuse the matter by having it on a different range. So:

ADSL = 2.1
WAP = 2.2 (for management)
Devices = DHCP, configure gateway of 2.1

Remove any routing on WAP.

Ping www.google.co.za, if you get no response, try ping 209.85.227.147. If you get a response from the IP, then your DNS is buggered - configure DNS to 2.1 in DHCP, assuming your Router can forward DNS....

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Hi Martin,

Where's the link to the image of the graphical depiction?

 

[MDT]

Thanks for replying Conradl! Will try your suggestion as soon as possible

Hi Martin,

Where's the link to the image of the graphical depiction?

Here is the original link in my first post Smooth Criminal

See also DesiredSetup.png for a graphical presentation
http://tinypic.com/r/eaju5z/5

But, if it's dead, I uploaded it at imageshack too

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9617/desiredsetup.png

 

[Smooth Criminal]

From what I can see, the first problem is that your D-link router is on a different subnet from the Belkin router.

It should be something like this:
Belkin router:
- Seems fine. Either disable DHCP or limit the address pool so that the D-link can allocated addresses too (if that's what you want). So say if you limit the pool to 192.168.2.1 - 192.168.2.100 on the Belkin, then you should limit the pool to 192.168.2.101 - 192.168.2.255 on the D-link.

D-link router:
- Configure it to be on the same subnet as the Belkin router, say 192.168.2.2
- Subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 shouldn't change
- Configure the gateway IP as the IP of your Belkin router, 192.168.2.1
- Leave DHCP enabled
- Don't put in any ISP configuration, that should be in the router connected to your ADSL line, i.e. the Belkin. You're merely using this router as an access point.

If the D-link router has a diagnostics function, you can try and ping a site directly from the router to check whether the configuration works.

What happens now is that your Belkin is responsible for initiating an internet connection. The D-link assigns IP addresses to clients that connect to it, and allows them to connect to the internet.

Hope that makes sense? Please feel free to correct me if I misunderstood your post.

 

[MDT]

Thank you very much Smooth Criminal for the advice. I have done exactly what you suggested. I do have connection on the wired PC, in my study. However, I still can't connect from the D-Link wireless.

I have also uploaded a few screen shots I have taken, hopefully it will help.

Here is a screen shot showing the IP Pool range on the Belkin:

Here is a screen shot showing the IP Pool range on the D-Link:

Here is a screen shot of the LAN connection details on the wired PC:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2nkkt34.png

Here is the last screen shot, of the wireless connection:
http://i40.tinypic.com/1zmkpzr.jpg

I hope this helps. Thanks once again for helping, I appreciate it.

Martin

 

[w1z4rd]

Why not get the wireless router to dial a pppoe connection with the wired adsl router being in bridge mode? Then you dont have too worry about the first lan, and you dont have to do two sets of rules for any incoming ports.

 

[MDT]

EDIT: I miss read your post w1z4rd

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely try that as well

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Please don't use bridge mode, you'll lose all other networking functionality. For example your PS3 won't be able to see your PC etc.

From what I can see, you either have your LAN connection statically configured on your wired PC to use 192.168.2.2, or it received that address prior to you changing it on the Belkin. This is the same address that you assigned the D-link router, so the router won't work because of the IP conflict. You'll need to change your LAN connection to obtain the IP automatically, or go type ipconfig /release followed by ipconfig /renew in a command prompt if your LAN adapter is set to get the IP automatically. Also change the address pool on the Belkin to 192.168.2.3 - 192.168.2.100 to avoid this happening again.

The next thing is you'll need to configure the D-link to act as an access point. So somewhere in your router settings you'll need to find the setting that will allow you to use the router as an access point and specify a default gateway (the default gateway in this instance will be the Belkin). If you have a look at the Belkin page above, you'll see that it does have such a setting ("Use as Access Point"). Now you'll need to find something similar in the D-link's settings.

Post back with some feedback

 

[MDT]

Once again, thanks for the advice Smooth Criminal!

I couldn't find a "Use as Access Point" setting on the D-Link page, but, I searched for it, and this is what I've found:

If you are connecting the D-Link router to another router to use as a wireless access point and/or switch, you will have to do the following before connecting the router to your network:

• Disable UPnP™
• Disable DHCP
• Change the LAN IP address to an available address on your network. The LAN ports on the router cannot accept a DHCP address from your other router.

To connect to another router, please follow the steps below:

1. Plug the power into the router. Connect one of your computers to the router (LAN port) using an Ethernet cable. Make sure your IP address on the computer is 192.168.0.xxx (where xxx is between 2 and 254). Please see the Networking Basics section for more information. If you need to change the settings, write down your existing settings before making any changes. In most cases, your computer should be set to receive an IP address automatically in which case you will not have to do anything to your computer.

2. Open a web browser and enter http://192.168.0.1 and press Enter. When the login window appears, set the user name to Admin and leave the password box empty. Click Log In to continue.

3. Click on Advanced and then click Advanced Network. Uncheck the Enable UPnP checkbox. Click Save Settings to continue.

4. Click Setup and then click Network Settings. Uncheck the Enable DHCP Server server checkbox. Click Save Settings to continue.

5. Under Router Settings, enter an available IP address and the subnet mask of your network. Click Save Settings to save your settings. Use this new IP address to access the configuration utility of the router in the future. Close the browser and change your computer’s IP settings back to the original values as in Step 1.

6. Disconnect the Ethernet cable from the router and reconnect your computer to your network.

7. Connect an Ethernet cable in one of the LAN ports of the router and connect it to your other router. Do not plug anything into the Internet port of the D-Link router.

8. You may now use the other 3 LAN ports to connect other Ethernet devices and computers. To configure your wireless network, open a web browser and enter the IP address you assigned to the router. Refer to the Configuration and Wireless Security sections for more information on setting up your wireless network.

Now, I have done all of this, and followed all of your steps Smooth Criminal, and am delighted to say it worked! According to the Network and Sharing Centre in Windows 7, I have a wireless internet connection from the D-Link. I checked if it was on the default gateway i.e. the Belkin 192.168.2.1, and it is. However, when I open up the browser, I still get a "Cannot connect.... Diagnose Internet Connection" :wtf:

Am I missing something? Or just too narrow minded?

Once again, thanks for the assistance!

Martin

EDIT: Typos

 

[w1z4rd]

I assumed the wireless router had a 4 port switch built into it and basic pppoe?

Well the D-Link has "Internet Access" and "Wireless", and if he has his pc plugged into that, and the ps3 on wireless.... why would he lose functionality?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Great, now there's some progress

I suspect that it might be a DNS issue. From the command prompt, ping www.saix.net. Then ping 196.25.1.200.

If you get a reply from the second one, but not the first, then you need to configure the DNS on the D-link. The DNS server in this case would be the IP of the Belkin router.

I assumed the wireless router had a 4 port switch built into it and basic pppoe?

Well the D-Link has "Internet Access" and "Wireless", and if he has his pc plugged into that, and the ps3 on wireless.... why would he lose functionality?

Hehe maybe I read your post wrong, but it seemed like you suggested both routers be in bridged mode. That wouldn't work as the ADSL router would no longer be able to allocate IP addresses, so dialing it would not result in an IP being granted to the client.

If you meant that only the wireless router be run in bridged mode, then it might work, however each client would then have to dial a connection. You lose the plug and play functionality in this instance as you have to manually dial the connection each time. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean

 

[MDT]

You were right to suspect that it's a DNS issue I pinged www.saix.net, and all I got in return was timed out requests. When I pinged 196.25.1.200, packets got sent.

Now, my question is: Where do I configure the DNS?

On the D-Link router page, there are 3 options for me to choose from. These options being;

Network settings --> Here there are no fields to configure the DNS. Only a tick box, which lets you enable/disable a feature called "DNS Relay"

Wireless settings --> No fields to configure the DNS, as expected I guess

Internet --> There are a few options, including internet connection type, advanced DNS service (this is also only a tick box, to enable/disable this feature)

For the Internet connection type (drop down menu), there are the following:

• Static IP http://i41.tinypic.com/34pcgn7.jpg (Image)
• Dynamic IP (DHCP) http://i40.tinypic.com/154tzep.jpg (Image)
• PPPoE (But this isn't the route we are aiming for right?)

Here is another image showing you the Wireless Network Connection details, if it's of any help
http://i41.tinypic.com/igf2wo.jpg

Eish! I'm starting to feel guilty here! Wish I had more experience with these things!

If anything is unclear, or if you need more info, please let me know! I really appreciate you assisting me!

Regards,
Martin

EDIT: As you can see, the IP address for the Wireless connection is 192.168.2.197, which I find odd. DHCP has been disabled on the D-Link, and the IP pool on the Belkin ranges from 192.168.2.3 to 192.168.2.100. Is that of any relevance?

 

[MidnightWizard]

Hardware

I would sell off the DIR 655 ( or keep it for something else ) from what I see in your diagram you have no need for two ROUTERS
Just get an eight port unmanaged Gigabit switch -- assuming your other computers have gigabit network cards / connections ( otherwise it is just a waste.)

Also assuming your wireless devices have Draft n WiFi cards.


From your Belkin N+ to your unmanaged Gigabit switch to your other devices. ( Keep everything on the same subnet )

Makes life a LOT simpler and easier


MW

 

[w1z4rd]

Great, now there's some progress

I suspect that it might be a DNS issue. From the command prompt, ping www.saix.net. Then ping 196.25.1.200.

If you get a reply from the second one, but not the first, then you need to configure the DNS on the D-link. The DNS server in this case would be the IP of the Belkin router.

Hehe maybe I read your post wrong, but it seemed like you suggested both routers be in bridged mode. That wouldn't work as the ADSL router would no longer be able to allocate IP addresses, so dialing it would not result in an IP being granted to the client.

If you meant that only the wireless router be run in bridged mode, then it might work, however each client would then have to dial a connection. You lose the plug and play functionality in this instance as you have to manually dial the connection each time. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean

Only the first modem should be in bridge mode, the second one should be in router mode, thats what I would do, unless I needed the first one for LAN connections or something.

I assumed the second one could dial the pppoe connection.

 

[RoloTomasi]

Network settings --> Here there are no fields to configure the DNS. Only a tick box, which lets you enable/disable a feature called "DNS Relay"

What is it currently set to? Did you change the setting and did it make a difference?

Internet --> There are a few options, including internet connection type, advanced DNS service (this is also only a tick box, to enable/disable this feature)

For the Internet connection type (drop down menu), there are the following:

• Static IP http://i41.tinypic.com/34pcgn7.jpg (Image)
• Dynamic IP (DHCP) http://i40.tinypic.com/154tzep.jpg (Image)
• PPPoE (But this isn't the route we are aiming for right?)

Since the primary Belkin router is taking care of internet access for your network, theoretically you shouldn't have to set anything for "Internet" (meaning it should be disabled). However, on this tutorial for setting a D-Link 655 as an access point, since there is no disable setting for 'Internet', the person set up dummy information for the "static IP" (even though you don't get a static IP from your ISP in this case), just to keep the router happy, even though it won't use the info set in this section.

As you can see, the IP address for the Wireless connection is 192.168.2.197, which I find odd. DHCP has been disabled on the D-Link, and the IP pool on the Belkin ranges from 192.168.2.3 to 192.168.2.100. Is that of any relevance?

Power cycle the D-Link (pull power cord from router, wait a min and reconnect). Yes, if DHCP is disabled on your D-Link (as it should be) then the computer connecting wirelessly to the D-Link should receive an IP address assigned by the DHCP server on the Belkin router, therefore within 192.168.2.2 - 100 range.

Ensure you have the IP and DNS addresses set to 'obtain IP address automatically' and 'obtain DNS server automatically' in the WLAN Properties on the computer.

As a side note:
I see you set your D-Link's IP address as 192.168.2.2. In my experience it's better to set the IP address of the 2nd router, in this case the D-Link, to fall within the same subnet as the primary Belkin router but outside the DHCP IP range of the primary router. I'd therefore set the IP address of the D-Link as something like 192.168.2.200

All computers connected to the network whether it's via the Belkin or the D-link, will still automatically receive IP addresses automatically assigned from the Belkin's DHCP server and should fall within the 192.168.2.2 - 192.168.2.100 range.

Also remember that the D-Link must be connected to the Belkin LAN to LAN, not WAN to LAN.

 

[Conradl]

You were right to suspect that it's a DNS issue I pinged www.saix.net, and all I got in return was timed out requests. When I pinged 196.25.1.200, packets got sent.

Now, my question is: Where do I configure the DNS?

On the D-Link router page, there are 3 options for me to choose from. These options being;

Network settings --> Here there are no fields to configure the DNS. Only a tick box, which lets you enable/disable a feature called "DNS Relay"

Wireless settings --> No fields to configure the DNS, as expected I guess

Internet --> There are a few options, including internet connection type, advanced DNS service (this is also only a tick box, to enable/disable this feature)

For the Internet connection type (drop down menu), there are the following:

• Static IP http://i41.tinypic.com/34pcgn7.jpg (Image)
• Dynamic IP (DHCP) http://i40.tinypic.com/154tzep.jpg (Image)
• PPPoE (But this isn't the route we are aiming for right?)

Here is another image showing you the Wireless Network Connection details, if it's of any help
http://i41.tinypic.com/igf2wo.jpg

Eish! I'm starting to feel guilty here! Wish I had more experience with these things!

If anything is unclear, or if you need more info, please let me know! I really appreciate you assisting me!

Regards,
Martin

EDIT: As you can see, the IP address for the Wireless connection is 192.168.2.197, which I find odd. DHCP has been disabled on the D-Link, and the IP pool on the Belkin ranges from 192.168.2.3 to 192.168.2.100. Is that of any relevance?

You should be getting your DNS server from the ISP automatically on your DSL router, and your PC should in turn be pointing at your ADSL router for its DNS. Please post the info page for your WAN connection so that we can check if the ADSL router has a correct DNS server specified.

You client (192.168.2.197), is still getting an IP address from 192.168.2.2. Did you disable the DHCP server, or the DHCP client on the wireless router?

 

[MDT]

I would sell off the DIR 655 ( or keep it for something else ) from what I see in your diagram you have no need for two ROUTERS
Just get an eight port unmanaged Gigabit switch -- assuming your other computers have gigabit network cards / connections ( otherwise it is just a waste.)

Also assuming your wireless devices have Draft n WiFi cards.


From your Belkin N+ to your unmanaged Gigabit switch to your other devices. ( Keep everything on the same subnet )

Makes life a LOT simpler and easier


MW

It would yes, I agree. I would definitely go this route in my home one day. The thing is, I'm setting this up in my mother's home. It's a "plat dak huis", meaning, no gap between the ceiling and the actual roof. She doesn't want holes drilled, and cables running against the ceiling.

If that is what you meant of course.

What is it currently set to? Did you change the setting and did it make a difference?

The DNS Relay is set to enabled, and nothing changes if I disable it

Power cycle the D-Link (pull power cord from router, wait a min and reconnect). Yes, if DHCP is disabled on your D-Link (as it should be) then the computer connecting wirelessly to the D-Link should receive an IP address assigned by the DHCP server on the Belkin router, therefore within 192.168.2.2 - 100 range.

Ensure you have the IP and DNS addresses set to 'obtain IP address automatically' and 'obtain DNS server automatically' in the WLAN Properties on the computer.

As a side note:
I see you set your D-Link's IP address as 192.168.2.2. In my experience it's better to set the IP address of the 2nd router, in this case the D-Link, to fall within the same subnet as the primary Belkin router but outside the DHCP IP range of the primary router. I'd therefore set the IP address of the D-Link as something like 192.168.2.200

All computers connected to the network whether it's via the Belkin or the D-link, will still automatically receive IP addresses automatically assigned from the Belkin's DHCP server and should fall within the 192.168.2.2 - 192.168.2.100 range.

Also remember that the D-Link must be connected to the Belkin LAN to LAN, not WAN to LAN.

Power cycled the D-Link, and yes, the DHCP is disabled on the D-Link. It now has an IP of 192.168.2.4.

Also, every connection is set to automatically obtain the IP and DNS

And, the D-Link is also connected LAN to LAN

Here is an image of the details from the wireless D-Link connection: http://i44.tinypic.com/vxdgdh.png (If of any help)

Since the primary Belkin router is taking care of internet access for your network, theoretically you shouldn't have to set anything for "Internet" (meaning it should be disabled). However, on this tutorial for setting a D-Link 655 as an access point, since there is no disable setting for 'Internet', the person set up dummy information for the "static IP" (even though you don't get a static IP from your ISP in this case), just to keep the router happy, even though it won't use the info set in this section.

Thanks for posting that guide! It was quite late last night, and I was getting tired I have followed those steps, filled in all the fields with "dummy" values.

Image of the configuration on the D-Link for the Static IP dummy values: http://i41.tinypic.com/5xrkmv.png

You should be getting your DNS server from the ISP automatically on your DSL router, and your PC should in turn be pointing at your ADSL router for its DNS. Please post the info page for your WAN connection so that we can check if the ADSL router has a correct DNS server specified.

Are you referring to these settings Conradl?
http://i43.tinypic.com/2dhbc7b.png

You client (192.168.2.197), is still getting an IP address from 192.168.2.2. Did you disable the DHCP server, or the DHCP client on the wireless router?

Yes I did. It needed to be disabled in order to be used as an access point.

I'd like to thank everyone once again for helping me!

Regards,
Martin

EDIT: Typos

 

[MidnightWizard]

What I meant

It would yes, I agree. I would definitely go this route in my home one day. The thing is, I'm setting this up in my mother's home. It's a "plat dak huis", meaning, no gap between the ceiling and the actual roof. She doesn't want holes drilled, and cables running against the ceiling.
If that is what you meant of course.

OK

I assume that you would still need ONE cable to connect the TWO routers ?

I also assume that there must be SOME sort of wiring closet / conduit for ALL the normal wiring in a house.


I would first have tried one of those external extended range wireless antennas ( you can then put the actual box somewhere low down and put just the antenna in a nice place )

Then

One of those AP's that allow you to extend your wireless coverage without running wires -- one of the ZYXEL range perhaps.

You could of course still use a switch ( and plug everything into it ) and hide it away somewhere.

You will still have the problem of POWER cables to all the devices ( ZYXEL does POE ).


MW

 

[RoloTomasi]

The DNS Relay is set to enabled, and nothing changes if I disable it

Did you power cycle the D-Link router after changing the setting? Change to 'disable', power cycle D-Link.

Then on the laptop, go to command prompt (black DOS window) and do the following:
- Type: "ipconfig /release" (without quotation marks) in the DOS window.
- Wait a few seconds for a reply that the IP address has been released.
- Type: "ipconfig /renew" (without quotation marks) in the DOS window.
- Wait a few seconds for a reply that the IP address has been re-established.
- Type: "ipconfig /flushdns" (without quotation marks) in the DOS window.
- Close the DOS window and attempt to browse websites.

If it makes no difference, then "enable DNS relay" again, power cycle D-Link, and folllow the ipconfig steps as stated above, again. See if you can browse sites.

Every time you make a major change to DHCP or DNS you need to power cycle the router so it can assign the IP address again and in this case the DNS setting perhaps only takes effect after a reboot of the router.

Looking at your latest screenshots, everything seems fine (from what I can see!), the Belkin has DHCP enabled and assigns all the IP addresses on the network, including to computers connected to the secondary D-Link router. DHCP is disabled on the D-Link, and everything can connect and get an IP address automatically. Your only problem is that the devices that connect to the D-Link still does not receive/recognise the DNS settings which should be passed on by the primary Belkin to the D-Link to the computer.
The "DNS Relay" setting mentioned above is the only setting I can see on that D-Link interface which allows or disallows the DNS to be passed to the D-Link from the Belkin. So do it as I suggested above, with power cycles, try to re-connect the laptop wirelessly and see if you have any luck.

Workaround...
There is an obvious temporary workaround but it's not the best solution since you have to manually enter the DNS settings on the laptop which connects wirelessly. Do you connect that laptop at work as well? Elsewhere? If not, then you can just go to the WLAN Properties on the laptop network connection and where it says "Obtain DNS server address automatically" you just choose the other option "Use the following DNS server addresses" and manually fill in the Preferred DNS server and alternate DNS server (which you get from your ISP, it will display on the status page of the Belkin router). You should then be able to browse websites on the laptop.

But again, it's just a workaround and not the best solution because if you connect that laptop on the network at the office or elsewhere, you'll have to change it back to "obtain DNS server automatically" every time.