New 3G / HSDPA Tariffs

[charl.voster]

What happens in the following situation:

The Scene:
You activate a ADHOC 250MB GPRS/3G data bundle on your account and a ADHOC 150MB HSDPA data bundle (both active).
You are using an Option HSDPA card.
You then connect in a GPRS area only.

The question:
From which bundle will the data you use in the GPRS area be deducted?

Why did I ask:
I live a GPRS ONLY area and I'm not too happy to subscribe to the more expensive HSDPA option when the majority of my data is GPRS and I want to use HSDPA on the odd occasion I get to go and see the "big city lights"

 

[vodacom3g]

What happens in the following situation:

The Scene:
You activate a ADHOC 250MB GPRS/3G data bundle on your account and a ADHOC 150MB HSDPA data bundle (both active).
You are using an Option HSDPA card.
You then connect in a GPRS area only.

The question:
From which bundle will the data you use in the GPRS area be deducted?

Why did I ask:
I live a GPRS ONLY area and I'm not too happy to subscribe to the more expensive HSDPA option when the majority of my data is GPRS and I want to use HSDPA on the odd occasion I get to go and see the "big city lights"

You're either on the 3G or the HSDPA tariffs (based on your device), so you can't have active bundles from each.

In your case, you'll be on the HSDPA tariffs.

 

[charl.voster]

Ta for the reply.

So we get nailed due to poor HSDPA coverage. All that's left to say now is the new billing and bad coverage sucks

 

[vodacom3g]

Ta for the reply.

So we get nailed due to poor HSDPA coverage. All that's left to say now is the new billing and bad coverage sucks

You basically must decide between:

Paying the original, normal rate and use HSDPA when available.
Paying the new, reduced rates and use 3G when available.

For each individual case, you must decide what's more imporant for you, price or speed.

 

[charl.voster]

For each individual case, you must decide what's more imporant for you, price or speed.

Does this mean that Vodacom will upgrade the rest of Gauteng (and the country) to give us the option? I choose the speed, but there is none.

It's a pity that Vodacom decided to change the price of the MB. 3G and HSDPA are on the same tower, but are charged differently. I was sold the HSDPA enabled card (also is enabled for 3G/EDGE/GPRS) for 3G. I find it offensive and insulting that Vodacom would expect me to at my cost (time=money) to go and swoop a new HSDPA card for a secondhand 3G card because Vodacom changed their mind AFTER selling the HSDPA cards.

I was at a Vodacom launch the other day and Vodacom was saying how much faster mobile broadband will be getting.
a. Are you going to have a new speed and a new price every 6-12 months?
b. Are you going to continue to neglect the areas on the city limits as well as the rural areas?
c. Will HSUPA be even more expensive now that HSDPA?
d. Will we need new hardware for each new jump in speed - eg: HSUPA?

PS. none of this should be an issue - All vodacom has to do is enforce the speed on the Network. If I choose 3G then I should be restricted to 3G. The fact that it is on a HSDPA card should be irrelevant.

 

[diabolus]

Just on that note, excuse me if it's been asked and answered.

I have 2 devices, one is HSDPA, the other is 3G . I use both. I only need 3G [or rather i don't ever get HSDPA anyway]. What will happen if i tell Vodacom to put me on the cheaper 3G bundle, WITHOUT replacing my HSDPA card? Will it stop working? [do i REALLY need to swop out my card?]. What if my device is a HSDPA cellphone.... [If Vodacom is really locking their cards now, it means people will be buying the cards cash/getting them from other providers.....no swopping out option there]

Will Vodacom detect i am using an HSDPA device and "upgrade" my bundle automatically? So for instance, i go away with my 3G pda, on a cheaper 3G bundle, somewhere in the month i go online with my datacard...bam my bundle gets converted? Yet the opposite isn't true?

No matter how i am trying to find the logic in it, it sounds badly thought out...i imagine it came from the same place the Voda Billing system came from [which do not allow prepaid bundles and contract migration from voice->data]...

 

[vodacom3g]

Does this mean that Vodacom will upgrade the rest of Gauteng (and the country) to give us the option? I choose the speed, but there is none.

Yes, the network is rolling out and will eventually cover the whole country. It'll obviously take time. We all would love to get the highest possible speed but there are many factors, technical and commercial that determine the roll-out priority.

It's a pity that Vodacom decided to change the price of the MB. 3G and HSDPA are on the same tower, but are charged differently.

Remember, there's only been a price drop. We could've kept the standard price across the board.

I was sold the HSDPA enabled card (also is enabled for 3G/EDGE/GPRS) for 3G. I find it offensive and insulting that Vodacom would expect me to at my cost (time=money) to go and swoop a new HSDPA card for a secondhand 3G card because Vodacom changed their mind AFTER selling the HSDPA cards.

Did you buy the card outright or did you buy it on contract? Or was it a swap-out?

I was at a Vodacom launch the other day and Vodacom was saying how much faster mobile broadband will be getting.
a. Are you going to have a new speed and a new price every 6-12 months?

The network will adapt to new technologies as they become available. I'm pretty sure you would insist on it. Pricing is always under pressure. Again, I'm pretty sure you'll insist on it

b. Are you going to continue to neglect the areas on the city limits as well as the rural areas?

???? Vodacom has more coverage of exactly these areas than anyone else and continue to roll out here.

c. Will HSUPA be even more expensive now that HSDPA?

Doubt it, prices have been coming down and I see no reason that the trend won't carry on.

d. Will we need new hardware for each new jump in speed - eg: HSUPA?

Yes, HSUPA will require new hardware on your side.

PS. none of this should be an issue - All vodacom has to do is enforce the speed on the Network. If I choose 3G then I should be restricted to 3G. The fact that it is on a HSDPA card should be irrelevant.

Agree, and this is being developed, i.e. you'll be network locked to a certain speed, a bit like ADSL.

 

[vodacom3g]

Just on that note, excuse me if it's been asked and answered.

I have 2 devices, one is HSDPA, the other is 3G . I use both. I only need 3G [or rather i don't ever get HSDPA anyway]. What will happen if i tell Vodacom to put me on the cheaper 3G bundle, WITHOUT replacing my HSDPA card? Will it stop working? [do i REALLY need to swop out my card?]. What if my device is a HSDPA cellphone.... [If Vodacom is really locking their cards now, it means people will be buying the cards cash/getting them from other providers.....no swopping out option there]

Will Vodacom detect i am using an HSDPA device and "upgrade" my bundle automatically? So for instance, i go away with my 3G pda, on a cheaper 3G bundle, somewhere in the month i go online with my datacard...bam my bundle gets converted? Yet the opposite isn't true?

No matter how i am trying to find the logic in it, it sounds badly thought out...i imagine it came from the same place the Voda Billing system came from [which do not allow prepaid bundles and contract migration from voice->data]...

I often feel, if we kept one single price for all access speeds most of the confusion (some very valid) would not have existed. Also, if we did not give a free swap-out to HSDPA, everything would be simpler.

This is what we should have done:

1) Keep a fixed price.
2) New subscribers would be supplied with HSDPA cards. Current users stay on 3G cards and have to pay to upgrade their cards, just like with handsets.

You'll remember the above was actually the case.

But then we did two things wrong:

1) We listened to subscribers who said a lower speed should reflect in a lower tariff, not a higher speed in higher rates, i.e. don't make HSDPA more expensive than the then-3G rates.
2) We listened to subscribers who said that the contracts were only a few months old and to get all this new, cool technology they would have to wait a year or so. (I was very vocal on this)

So we did two things:

1) We dropped the 3-only tariffs.
2) We swapped the cards out for free.

This resulted in a few phenomena:

1) Everyone now seems to think HSDPA is more expensive, not 3G is 20% less.

2) You have to make a decision on what speed / price bracket you want to use, i.e. you now have a choice you never had before.

3) We need to have some method on determining your access speed to bill you accordingly. Currently it is determined by the device. In the future, it'll be on the network.

4) Some anomalies will occur. Certain permutations will not make sense. Paying HSDPA tariff for EDGE, for example. But we've always been open to discuss these and come to an arrangement.

 

[charl.voster]

ta for the reply.

I bought the card cash at vodaworld. It's all they had in stock for 3G at the time.

Rural neglect - I meant I'm disappointed that there is not at least EDGE in the whole of Gauteng (and pref the whole of SA.) I understand the whole equipment and commercial viability thing, but it's sad when people only have GPRS in the Capital city, never mind the surrounding areas.

I saw something about 5 mbps for HSUPA - Is that up and down?

I agree with you 100%. It will be better to have one price per MB - especially due to the fact that there is limited HSDPA coverage and people will be using GPRS/EDGE from time to time due to the coverage. One price will be nice, but being able to select a tariff and being restricted to that by the network is also half a solution.

 

[vodacom3g]

Theoretical max of HSUPA is 5.7Mb/s in the uplink and 14.4Mb/s in the downlink, but it'll be some time before we get there.

Will need to check what the initial uplink speed will be, but whatever, it'll (again) result in smaller cells.

PM me all your contact details and we can pick up your specific case. It's one of those I'd like to give over for consideration.

 

[diabolus]

So we did two things:

1) We dropped the 3-only tariffs.
2) We swapped the cards out for free.

Well i'm not complaining, i am happy getting an HSDPA card without spending extra cash. The problem is, i don't see it as a very "marketable" way to lower prices. I think Vodacom should just have left it and do a "proper" price reduction when they could handle it.

It all boils down to confusing the living hell out of the customer , making the system so complex that they are so lost in the complexity that they never figure out how much it is costing them.

It's like dropping phone rates between 3:15am and 3:24am if you are using a Nokia 6210 , and then believing you are doing the customer a favour.

 

[Piesang]

Well, I think Vodacom, MTN and Cell-C should follow Virgin Mobile's lead and drop their data prices to 50c/MB for prepaid and contract subscribers.

If a new company can do it then the older ones should be able to do it as well.

 

[Diplos]

3) We need to have some method on determining your access speed to bill you accordingly. Currently it is determined by the device. In the future, it'll be on the network.

Sounds like the technology is moving faster than [Vodacom's] strategic team's brains. You know what this means, don't you.... come the end of September, anyone wanting to migrate down from HSDPA to 3G will have to swap out their hardware by this time. A while later [Vodacom] will announce that [Vodacom] are now able to enforce access speed on your network and it is no longer to change your hardware....

Tip: Don't go near a fan during this period....

PS. You are right about a fixed charge across both HSDPA and 3G and this price *should* be the lower (ie 3G) price - it's that simple! [Vodacom] want take up and market share - it's not necessary to gouge - [Vodacom] are obviously making money or will make money on the 3G rates so why not just level the whole damn thing. The simplification will probably save [Vodacom] ten times in the man hours [Vodacom] are currently wasting trying to sort out this dual pricing model....

 

[vodacom3g]

Sounds like the technology is moving faster than your strategic team's brains. You know what this means, don't you.... come the end of September, anyone wanting to migrate down from HSDPA to 3G will have to swap out their hardware by this time. A while later you will announce that you are now able to enforce access speed on your network and it is no longer to change your hardware....

Tip: Don't go near a fan during this period....

PS. You are right about a fixed charge across both HSDPA and 3G and this price *should* be the lower (ie 3G) price - it's that simple! You want take up and market share - it's not necessary to gouge - you are obviously making money or will make money on the 3G rates so why not just level the whole damn thing. The simplification will probably save you ten times in the man hours you are currently wasting trying to sort out this dual pricing model....

Just something to consider (i.e. I'm not disagreeing with you):

HSDPA might have been a software upgrade on the towers but the impact on the (Telkom supplied, thus paid-for) backhaul is substantial. As is Internet connectivity.

 

[Diplos]

Just something to consider (i.e. I'm not disagreeing with you):

HSDPA might have been a software upgrade on the towers but the impact on the (Telkom supplied, thus paid-for) backhaul is substantial. As is Internet connectivity.

I don't want to kill the messenger either, you are here at least, unlike my tragic network...

 

[adsl3g]

OK, ok - I've now read through this whole thread (something about what IC said about ignoring stickeys). My senario is as follows.
I have a MTN HSDPA card and use a contract voda sim in it. I got a addhoc 3G bundle on the sim.
1) What happens if I get HSDPA speeds via the card. Is the data coming off my bundle or am I being charged R2 p/meg even though I do have the 3G bundle.
2) I assume that if I only get 3G there should be no problem.
3) Also - w.r.t. add hoc bundles - am I right is assuming that these are once off and do not automatically carry on month to month until they are cancelled.
4) Also, do addhoc bundles run over a calendar month or for a month from when they are activated (seem to recall reading something like this).
5) Can I add another addhoc in one 30 day period when the other one is depleated.

Comments would be appreciated..

 

[MyDraadloos]

Theoretical max of HSUPA is 5.7Mb/s in the uplink and 14.4Mb/s in the downlink, but it'll be some time before we get there.

Will need to check what the initial uplink speed will be, but whatever, it'll (again) result in smaller cells.

PM me all your contact details and we can pick up your specific case. It's one of those I'd like to give over for consideration.

Unfortunately the faster speeds on access equipment and network infrastructure will amount to nothing if the backhaul links and backbone is not coping.

I don't think Vodacom has come to grips with the fact that for the second time round they are an ISP; yet again.(Remember Yebo net) They failed the first time.

This brings questions regarding peering links and the status thereof. The net is fickle and the user experience is only as good as his service providers uplinks and peering connections.

Who is the 1st tier upstream provider ?

Contention ratio's ?

Why is there no QoS or SLA ?

Are there some forms of bandwith prioritisation on the network i.e. voice before data and HSDPA before 3G or GPRS ?

Are we paying premium rates for what is essentially a best effort service ?

 

[vodacom3g]

Let me think a bit about this and revert....or PM me an e-mail addr in the mean-time.

 

[LabAnimal]

mmm... let me know when you can get 10gig for less than R200*, otherwise Any and all the wireless providers can keep their Ripoff tarrifs just to get porn faster!.


*Yes, won't happen

 

[adsl3g]

Let me think a bit about this and revert....or PM me an e-mail addr in the mean-time.

You talking to me or Mydraadloos??