New ID Books?

[noxibox]

SA without ID books would make ID fraud a nightmare, Im surprised it hasnt picked up, in the UK all you need is a phone bill / bank statement to open up an account anywhere, and they have dumpster divers who hunt through ur mail for unshredded personal information... now imagine if the criminals could get a loan with one piece of paper out of your bin.

This would be a problem for the bank not you.

People in South Africa who are waiting to get their IDs must manage with something anyway.

My ID book is in very bad condition. So bad that people assume it must be genuine because it would be crazy to have such a tatty fake

(it is genuine, but 20 years old)

 

[Omac]

Would it be easier or less easy to commit ID theft without ID books?

Just wondering!

And what would we do with all those poor souls who are currently employed for the soul purpose of employment is to get our ID books to us in a timeous fashion?

 

[jontyB]

Would it be easier or less easy to commit ID theft without ID books?

Just wondering!

And what would we do with all those poor souls who are currently employed for the soul purpose of employment is to get our ID books to us in a timeous fashion?

ID fraud in this country is both complex and very well organised. Here are the main ways identity fraud is committed:

1. Some people actually buy completely valid Identities. This is done as follows: buy/obtain a birth certificate from home affairs via one of the various "salesman" about - the population register is updated accordingly. Home affairs then issues an ID book against that Population Register entry. This is the worst kind of fraud and cannot be stopped or reversed. No one knows how many of these have happened in the past few years. Each and every single one of these cases results in a new and legitimate (in terms of the population register) South African citizen. This was one of the highlighted issues that Special Assignment investigated recently.

2. Altered ID documents. These are effectively valid ID documents (often stolen) where the photo has been replaced with that of a fraudster. These documents are then used to commit fraud (e.g. by getting Cash Loans or credit, or by manufacturing cheque books, or even marrying an immigrant to get South African citizenship). In some cases people have actually bought houses and cars using these altered IDs.

3. Faking of a whole identity document. These are the most common, and generally the least expensive (depending on the type) cases. In most cases, the document is manufactured using materials as similar as the original document as possible. These documents range from Student Cards all the way to Passports, and in most cases can be identified as fake by a professional. Often errors on the document are quite obvious.

To answer your question: It remains to be seen whether Identity theft will be easier or more difficult with a new identity system, but right now, it's ridiculously easy to obtain a valid new identity in South Africa.

 

[Natas]

Gav, I think you've been lucky up to now.

I'm remined of the bloke who held a dept. employee hastage to get his ID book. If only he had spoken to you guys first, he wouldn't be in so much crp now.

The guy that took the hostages and stuff, said that he could have bought an ID book but that he wanted to do things properly. The lesson there is that doing things by the book doesn't pay. He obviously went all wonky ala Robert De Niro in "taxi driver" or Charlie Sheen in that "Falling Down" movie when he goes postal.

Also, the only peeps who will benefit from new ID books are the people that sell them to whoever is buying. CHanging ID books will simply mean that everyone who bought one will have to buy another. The only way we can hope to solve the problem is to use another form of identification. I, as Hell's representative here in earth, suggest microchips under the skin, or bar codes tattooed on the forehead, the whole mark fo the beast thing.....

 

[bwana]

Are there such countries that do not require their citizens to carry some form of identification?

For example, my UK driver's licence card, and my UK passport are both forms of identification in the UK...

So are mine but you're not required to carry them.

 

[Syndyre]

You're not required by law to carry ID in SA are you?

 

[bwana]

methinks bwana meant one is not required to carry one's driver's licence about in the UK, although I did out of habbit...

Thats correct.

Out of habit I didnt carry mine as until relatively recently it didnt even have a photo on it and it was A4 in size.

Now its a bit easier to carry it as it is wallet sized but if you dont have it on you and you're stopped they'll request you show it at your nearest station.

 

[Syndyre]

Oh ok, I always carry ID here anyway, not because of govt or anything Big Brotherish but a more basic fear called "Fear of being unconscious and ending up in a govt hospital"

 

[Alan]

Bwhahahahha

 

[Syndyre]

Thats correct.

Out of habit I didnt carry mine as until relatively recently it didnt even have a photo on it and it was A4 in size.

Now its a bit easier to carry it as it is wallet sized but if you dont have it on you and you're stopped they'll request you show it at your nearest station.

If you don't have your drivers licence on you at the time you're stopped they can fine you as well.

 

[vespax]

passports

Not many people in the US have a passport. My parents are almost 60 and have never had a passport. A drivers license or Social Security card is enough to do most things in the states.

My opinion, the ID book here is old fashioned and a waste of resources on the state. They should figure out a way to streamline the whole ID system.

I'm not in government, so I don't have fantastic solutions!

 

[werner]

If you don't have your drivers licence on you at the time you're stopped they can fine you as well.

dunno if you meant in s.a., or in the UK, but my wife got stopped on monday, and was given a form to fill in, and take to the police station within 14 days to show her license and insurance etc.

so, no, in the UK it is not compulsary to carry driver's license with you at all times. In fact, besides my car keys I normally have f*all on me at any stage of the game, barring a few £££'s in my pocket.

and as we have no id cards or books here, guess you can be free to walk around. just be aware of the cameras following you...doo dee doo dee doo dee doo dee doooooooooo

 

[kilo39]

and as we have no id cards or books here, guess you can be free to walk around. just be aware of the cameras following you...doo dee doo dee doo dee doo dee doooooooooo

Spoken like a true victim of the Surveillance Society.

Britain is acknowledged as the world leader of Orwellian surveillance. An estimated 4.2 million closed-circuit TV cameras observe people going about their everyday business, from getting on a bus to lining up at the bank to driving around London. It's widely estimated that the average Briton is scrutinized by 300 cameras a day.
-
Under current UK laws, if you are arrested for any recordable offence, police are allowed to take your fingerprints and a sample your DNA. Even if you are subsequently released and found innocent, police can still keep your DNA, which is added to a PERMANENT database.

Worse still, hundreds of thousands of children aged between 10 and 18 have had their DNA added to the database despite never being cautioned or charged for any offence.

 

[werner]

yes, well done. I thought I made that point clear. too many cameras here.

<edit> sorry, I think the wrong tone was used in my reply....what I meant to say was
"I would rather have my wife hacked to death as a witch in a 3rd world squatter settlement because, really, there are too many cameras here"

hehehe

 

[kilo39]

yes, well done. I thought I made that point clear. too many cameras here.

touchy!

You obviously didn't read the article werner - namely this bit in this middle:

Authorities maintain the cameras deter crime, despite the fact that police have admitted that they are 'too busy' to watch CCTV, even AFTER a crime has taken place. The outrage of civil libertarians has fallen on deaf ears as the public seems willing to accept the constant monitoring for the greater good.

 

[werner]

yup, didnt read that, but didnt need to.
cameras here are regarded as a necessary evil..not for constant surveillance, but as a backup to see what had happened.
so, go shopping be merry, do whatever you like. if a murder has taken place, be merry that there is footage somewhere.

personally, i dont like it much, but i also remember standing in a queue at school when i was 16 to blissfully hand over my fingerprints for an id book, and i didnt like that either. nor the compulsory military service in potchestroom. but if i had to pick.....then i guess this is kinda more acceptable to me

and to a previous poster..id here is kind of on a basis of trust. yes, you use utility bills etc, but not just one bill. the type of "id" you present is scored on a weighted system. e.g. you may need 17 points to apply for a bank account, and a electricity bill may be 4 points, your tenancy agreement may be 8 points etc. so you cant just hop in a dumpster and gleefully grab an electricity bill and commit id fraud.
generally, if i say i am the pope, then i am the pope. and if i am not the pope, but wish to be called the pope, then you should respect my wishes. i trust you, you trust me. yes, the system is open to abuse, but they try keep undesirables out.

lol

Home Affairs Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula says green ID books "must go as a matter of urgency" because they are "contaminated" by criminals.

bonfire on sunday at my house, bring your tainted id books...respect the esteemed minister's wishes!!!!

 

[NoRulez]

I, as Hell's representative here in earth, suggest microchips under the skin, or bar codes tattooed on the forehead, the whole mark fo the beast thing.....

Much safer anyway (microchips that is), but quite the turn-off for the religious types. See how many fake implants/tattoos are gonna be around then. With all the qualified tech personnel emigrating, they will have to import chips and scanners - what a boom for black market sales!
How about retinal scans? Oops, that would be discrimination against the blind...

 

[kilo39]

QUOTE=werner
so, go shopping be merry, do whatever you like. if a murder has taken place, be merry that there is footage somewhere.


generally, if i say i am the pope, then i am the pope. and if i am not the pope, but wish to be called the pope, then you should respect my wishes. i trust you, you trust me. yes, the system is open to abuse, but they try keep undesirables out.

Ah werner, TRUST is the word I be most missing and most concerned for, of the future.

 

[bwana]

I guess the questions are does the cctv fulfil its purpose and is it worth the hit to civil liberties.

 

[Ekhaatvensters]

Civil Liberties? i dont really get the problem? It records what you do, if you arent doing anything wrong then its fine, why would you care?

If it can catch even a few criminals, which it does, then what is the problem?

Sorry I haven't really read the thread, but I dont see what can be so terrible that you would want it stopped if it can prevent crime or catch criminals.