New PC advice please

[Bielie]

PSUs and cases (even RAM) are IMO components you can use for donkeys years..

True!

Agreed 100% on the latter. Of course it's overkill paying more if you only ever intend on running single gfx card setups.

True too!

But as stevovo has said.. it's for a bit of future proofing. He has already enquired about an extra card for possible SLI and what if the bug really starts biting and he goes for the big mama's in the future? Then he doesn't have to worry about a PSU again..

 

[PostmanPot]

Opens up a whole other can of worms. IMO SLI/Xfire is over-rated, seldom offers better value for money, creates more noise and heat and chews more juice. There's nothing a single gfx card isn't good enough for, so what gives? Bragging rights...

 

[stroebs]

Bragging rights...

In the words of our President, Mr Jacob Zuma: Absolutely!

 

[CriticalConsumer]

One thing I can say is that if you plan on upgrading your gfx cards and adding more drives etc, then go for a decent brand name PSU. In my circumstances, I have a Thermaltake Toughpower 750W PSU and never have to worry about another PSU for a long time to come.

 

[Bielie]

And as far as six cores for gaming is concerned I think I'll retract my earlier doubts about getting one for better game performance. It is starting to look like levovo was wise in future proofing that too. Intel - and to some extent AMD too - already has a program in place that is actively pursuing the game developers to support six cores and it is starting to pay off (how else with pressure from those two giants LOL)

Intel is expected to introduce a 6-core processor designed to crunch through the most 3D-intensive games in the coming weeks.

Intel has added a second six-core desktop chip to its roster of high-end processors used to crunch through the most demanding games and multimedia applications.

Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands is the latest part of the PoP series.. ..According to the Lead Programmer the game will utilize up to six CPU cores..

Since March 2010 (Intel Core i7-980X) or June 2010 (AMD Phenom II X6 1055T and 1090T) respectively, there have been early desktop processors that carry six CPU-cores. Processors with eight or even twelve cores are in progress. What gamers might ask is: What's the gain of these additional cores?

In order to be able to make presentable statements, we tested 24 games allowing for their ability to handle multi-core. A remarkable thing to say is that a great number of games already benefits from six cores. When we think back, the transition from two to four cores was slower. Back then, it took the games almost one year to profit by additional cores.

Games like Civ 5 are now being designed to utilize as many cores as possible. The game does not have to be written for 6 cores to take advantage of it.

Even with older games you could benefit by using a six core processor..

More and more games are being developed that will utilize more cores if it has the opportunity. Let's take Medal of Honor for example (it was specifically written for four cores). The author says "10% increase compared to quad core". This is the reason why it benefits from 2 more cores:
Lets say Medal of Honor runs 100% on all four cores when running a quad core (400% total). If you were to leave the specs of the system the same and put a 6 core processor in, you would see that Metal of Honor now runs at 100% on 4 cores and 10% on the fifth core (although windows would probably split it up amongst the cores and run 68.3% on all 6 cores, for a total of 410%). This is where the 10% increase is coming from. The author never claimed that the games where vastly improved, or visually better in any way. Hell, he didn't even say he got an increase in FPS. All the author was trying to convey, is that this is a list of games, that given the opportunity, will utilize MORE than 4 cores. I'm sure Metal of Honor runs fine on 4 cores, but the advantage here is if it has more cores the game may utilize more than is capable with only 4 cores.

At both 1680x1050 and 1920x1200, the six-core CPU earns slim victories over the Core i7-975 Extreme(four-core). This isn’t because Valve’s Source engine is taking advantage of six cores. Rather, the threads it is employing are getting access to the larger shared L3 cache.

Etc. etc. etc. So, he's not taking a step backward - older games will perform just as well or as close as dammit with the new six-core brutes.

The point I'm trying to make is simply this.. The keyword here is future-proofing, not how things are standing currently - and by all indications the 'future' is already upon us (or at least coming at us with much increased speed!). It won't be long now...

 

[Bielie]

[

...seldom offers better value for money..

Ooooh that is just not true anymore. Many, many times you can buy two of the same cheaper cards for SLI/XFire purposes for less than a top card and it outperforms the top card. Those technologies has really taken off and come to age. Just go look at the tests done in this regard on sites like guru3D, tom's hardware. overclockers club etc.

What I do agree with 100% though is the exponential increase in heat, noise, power consumption and so on!

 

[PostmanPot]

[

Ooooh that is just not true anymore. Many, many times you can buy two of the same cheaper cards for SLI/XFire purposes for less than a top card and it outperforms the top card. Those technologies has really taken off and come to age. Just go look at the tests done in this regard on sites like guru3D, tom's hardware. overclockers club etc.

What I do agree with 100% though is the exponential increase in heat, noise, power consumption and so on!

SLI/Xfiring has indeed become more cost efficient over the years in terms of price : performance.

But did you factor in the increased PSU cost? And electricity bill?

What, all to run your games at a few more unnoticeable FPS?

 

[stevovo]

How much extra power consumption will sli take up generally? At the moment I only have the computer and a tv in my house, besides the normal stuff like one fridge and stove etc. so my electric bill is usually around R400 and I don't mind paying R100 or so more.

If I take for eg. the corsair gs700 will it handle 2 x gtx460?

 

[luxe]

I dont know the specs of the motherboard you bought, but its unlikely that it will have 2 x 16x Pci-e slots.

Crossfire / Sli is not just " Oh, there's an empty slot, let me put another gfx card in."

And this is the reason why you consider what you want long term and short term before buying PC Parts...not at checkout.

edit: 2x pci-e 2.0 16x ( at 16x or 8x+8x ) - thats what you have, so not a complete disaster in the end.

 

[Bielie]

How much extra power consumption will sli take up generally? At the moment I only have the computer and a tv in my house, besides the normal stuff like one fridge and stove etc. so my electric bill is usually around R400 and I don't mind paying R100 or so more.

If I take for eg. the corsair gs700 will it handle 2 x gtx460?

You won't come close to R100 more

I can't find info on that Corsair (strange). What I do know though is that it's a 700W supply and that will be enough to handle both according to this..



You can read the whole GTX460 SLI review HERE

What's more important to me now though (since I don't know this offhand) is, does that PSU have enough 6-pin PEG power connectors for your cards? (each of them takes 2 - as you know)


ps: see how quickly one can gobble up watts? LOL. You are correct in going for a higher rated PSU (future proofing). 550W just isn't enough anymore if you have half a decent gaming rig

 

[stevovo]

That power supply only comes with 2 of those 6-pin connectors. Is it a bad thing to use those adapters that take 2 x 4-pin connectors to 1 6-pin connector to get the extra 2 x 6-pins?

My current 460 came with one of those adapters

 

[PostmanPot]

You are correct in going for a higher rated PSU (future proofing). 550W just isn't enough anymore if you have half a decent gaming rig

'Course it's enough - if you plan on having single gfx card setups into the future. A good 550watt will run the most powerful single gfx cards, so why get more if you're never going to have 2 or more cards?

Furthermore, all components become more efficient and less power-hungry over time.

 

[PostmanPot]

That power supply only comes with 2 of those 6-pin connectors. Is it a bad thing to use those adapters that take 2 x 4-pin connectors to 1 6-pin connector to get the extra 2 x 6-pins?

My current 460 came with one of those adapters

Personally I wouldn't ever use those adapters when running half-decent graphics cards. If you want a PSU for SLI/Xfire, at least get one that has 4 x 6/8-pin connectors.

If I may ask, why would you want SLI/Xfire?

 

[stevovo]

Because I can buy another gtx 460 for ~R1700 and combine it with my existing 460 and get the same power or better than a single gtx 480 which would have cost me ~R4500.

 

[PostmanPot]

Because I can buy another gtx 460 for ~R1700 and combine it with my existing 460 and get the same power or better than a single gtx 480 which would have cost me ~R4500.

Right, so you would save ±R1,000.

But then you need to factor in increased PSU cost.

And increased mobo cost - for one that has 2 x PCI-E 16x slots.

As well as increased power usage.

So yeah, I understand your point, but it balances out after factoring in those points.

 

[stevovo]

I'm getting the mobo due to the 4 ram slots it has, not because of the sli. The cheaper mobos were either brands that I had bad experiences with or didn't support the cpu, so I'm not paying extra for the mobo.

I don't see how I'll only be saving R1000 because the average price of the gtx460 is R1700, then add the PSU which is R1000 and that makes it R2700.

Now look at the gtx 480, the average price is R4500. So that's a saving of about R1800. and the increase in electricity doesn't bother me.

 

[PostmanPot]

Here we go.

Well you could get this single PCI-E 16x mobo with 4 X RAM slots for R650:

Asus M4N68T / M4N68T V2 ; for AM3 only ( upto 140w ) , nvidia nForce630a chipset , 4x DDR3-1800(O.C)/1600(O.C)/1333/1066 , 4 x s-ata with raid 0/1/5/10 , 1 x parallel ata133 , on-board VT1708S 7.1 audio + gigabit lan ; 2x pci-e (1x) , 1x pci-e (16x) , 4 x pci , with EPU4 + express gate + turbo key + 100% high-quality conductive polymer capacitor , with com/serial + parallel port - atx

Okay so that's a R300 saving.

Then, you could get this PSU for R575 for single card setups:

Corsair CX500 , Eps12V , ATX 12V V2.3 - 500w ( 12v : 408w ) , 24pin ( 4pin detachable ) , with active-PFC , 2x8pin (2+6) PCI-E power , 1x 120mm thermal controled fan , 5x SATA - 3 years warranty - no power cord

Or this PSU, enough for SLI/Xfire for R1215:

Corsair TX750 , Eps12V , ATX 12V V2.2 - 750w ( 12v : 720w ) , nvidia SLi ready , 80PLUS certified for energy saving , 24pin ( 4pin detachable ) , with active-PFC , 4 x 8pin (2+6) PCI-E power connectors , 8x SATA , 1x 140mm thermal controled fan ; with OCP, OVP, OPP, SCP, UVP - 5 years warranty - no power cord

Okay so that's R640 saving.

R940 in total.

So you will save ±R1,000 by getting 2 x GTX460s for similar performance to a GTX480, but it would cost you R940 extra to support the 2 cards.

So not really as cost effective as you perhaps thought. And more noise, more heat.

But the bragging rights...!

 

[Bielie]

'Course it's enough - if you plan on having single gfx card setups into the future. A good 550watt will run the most powerful single gfx cards, so why get more if you're never going to have 2 or more cards?

Furthermore, all components become more efficient and less power-hungry over time.

Yes PP, I fully agree with you. In fact I don't think I disagree with anything you've said in this whole thread except maybe the daily running cost (electricity bill) BUT...

I am looking at the whole thing from an upgradeability (spelling??) / future-proofing point of view and the reason for that is from what was said by levovo. It's that WHAT IF factor. He is obviously more and more seriously considering the SLI setup, so it makes sense to cater for it now - just incase - versus having to worry about it again at a later stage.

Undeniably, if he never gets to doing the SLI thingy, he's wasted a few bucks on that PSU because your statement about that is correct. But what if he does finally decide to go that route? And judging from his posts that seems to be a very big possibility... So therefore I'm supporting him in that idea. See where I'm coming from?

He's not simply upgrading.. a new mobo, CPU, RAM... man, he is building a brand new system. Thus I believe he is doing all the right things - building a rig that would serve him a long time to come (by going a bit bigger on certain things now).

I'm sure he will go for SLI in the end hehehe Keep us updated on that levovo!

 

[Bielie]

But the bragging rights...!

which is always nice! LMAO

 

[Bielie]

Personally I wouldn't ever use those adapters when running half-decent graphics cards. If you want a PSU for SLI/Xfire, at least get one that has 4 x 6/8-pin connectors.

Agreed! Can you recommend a good one there PP?