Next Rooivalk attack chopper?

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saffakanera

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uring November 2007, Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota announced in Parliament, that the SAAF is to invest R962 million (about US$137 million in 2007 exchange rates) in the helicopter over three years to 2010/2011, in order to bring it up to full operational status. The helicopter will be deployed on peace-keeping duties as soon as initial operating capability is achieved.[8]
 
saffakanera said:
uring November 2007, Defence Minister Mosiuoa Lekota announced in Parliament, that the SAAF is to invest R962 million (about US$137 million in 2007 exchange rates) in the helicopter over three years to 2010/2011, in order to bring it up to full operational status. The helicopter will be deployed on peace-keeping duties as soon as initial operating capability is achieved.[8]
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Who is going to fly it? And what peace keeping?
 
AMG133 said:
flip about time, anybody at Denel can give us info?
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Hehe, Denel is facing closure, how would they be making heli's like this?

Anyways. Onething is for sure. Nobody in here will tell you even if they know.
 
lol, you'll be surprised what you can get PM'd on the internets forums, I got plans of the IBV from another forum :D
 
There is NO next Rooivalk!

That R960mil is just to bring 12 SAAF choppers up to operational standard.

Denel has ceased development of the Rooivalk and they are in financial trouble as it is so there is no future for the Rooivalk.

This project, like other government projects, has been a failure from the start. They should have just purchased Agusta, Apache, Kamov or Mil choppers instead.
 
AMG133 said:
lol, you'll be surprised what you can get PM'd on the internets forums, I got plans of the IBV from another forum :D
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:D Yeah, I could have copied all the avionics, radar & weapons related technical docs & circuit diagrams for the Atlas Cheetah years back when I was still studying. Wonder if I would have been able to sell the info?
 
ponder said:
There is NO next Rooivalk!

That R960mil is just to bring 12 SAAF choppers up to operational standard.

Denel has ceased development of the Rooivalk and they are in financial trouble as it is so there is no future for the Rooivalk.

This project, like other government projects, has been a failure from the start. They should have just purchased Agusta, Apache, Kamov or Mil choppers instead.
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I won't really say the project was failure because it was a bad idea/project but rather because of bad management.

I am working for one of the Denel companies and can tell you that this company suffers from some serious bad management and decision making! This ship is sinking faster than they want to believe!
 
The way I understood it, the Rooivalk was/is a very good machine. I've heard it said that they would have fared better in the middle-east conflicts than the apache due to their ruggedness and simpler maintenance. As far as I can recall, it can even fly on normal petrol. It also has the SA version of the apache's helmet-mounted targeting system so it's not like they're archaic DC-3 helo equivalents.

Maybe the upgrade is just to avionics/wep system?
 
MielieSpoor said:
I won't really say the project was failure because it was a bad idea/project but rather because of bad management.

I am working for one of the Denel companies and can tell you that this company suffers from some serious bad management and decision making! This ship is sinking faster than they want to believe!
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The problem with Denel (or Atlas before them) is that they had some good products but could never sell them really (except to SA gov). You can have the best product in the world but if they don't sell it ends up a failure.


Flanders said:
The way I understood it, the Rooivalk was/is a very good machine. I've heard it said that they would have fared better in the middle-east conflicts than the apache due to their ruggedness and simpler maintenance. As far as I can recall, it can even fly on normal petrol. It also has the SA version of the apache's helmet-mounted targeting system so it's not like they're archaic DC-3 helo equivalents.

Maybe the upgrade is just to avionics/wep system?
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Yes, it was designed for dusty environments and to be low maintenance. A squadron needs one support chopper with spares and a maintenance crew of four out in the stix. It's a good chopper but the project could not sustain itself and hence the failure. The tax payer ultimately pays the price here.

You cannot just make 12 choppers for the entire world market and expect the project to be a success, you need numbers.
 
It also has the SA version of the apache's helmet-mounted targeting system...
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In fact, sorry, let me correct myself there. To my knowledge this system was pioneered here and adopted and adapted by the US for the apache.
 
ponder said:
There is NO next Rooivalk!

That R960mil is just to bring 12 SAAF choppers up to operational standard.

Denel has ceased development of the Rooivalk and they are in financial trouble as it is so there is no future for the Rooivalk.

This project, like other government projects, has been a failure from the start. They should have just purchased Agusta, Apache, Kamov or Mil choppers instead.
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Just like they should have just bought C17's or something instead of waiting for Airbus to still develop their products...

The initial pricetag for the Airbus transports deal was 17billion. Man, just how many new C130's could they have bought for that amount?
 
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ponder said:
The problem with Denel (or Atlas before them) is that they had some good products but could never sell them really (except to SA gov). You can have the best product in the world but if they don't sell it ends up a failure.
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Did the SANDF ever buy any? I know the Americans spiked some potential deals, but there were also questions from some interested countries about why SA was prepared to sell them but not to actually use them.
 
Claymore said:
Did the SANDF ever buy any? I know the Americans spiked some potential deals, but there were also questions from some interested countries about why SA was prepared to sell them but not to actually use them.
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Yes, they purchased 12, the first 6 were only delivered in 2005 though!

There were other interested countries but the deals never materialised passed 'interest'. Yes the yanks did offer some sugar coated deals.

The Rooivalk does look a lot like the Agusta A129 Mangusta and I wonder if they have anything in common beyond pure looks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agusta_A129_Mangusta
Which Turkey ended up buying instead of the Rooivalk which is the better chopper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denel_AH-2_Rooivalk
http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/what-went-wrong-with-the-rooivalk-2007-06-08-1 Nice article
 
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The Rooivalk was poorly conceived, designed, developed and produced and as such very late and way over budget. It probably entered production unqualified, and only entered service as a face-saving ploy. Has it really seen active service? Probably spent more time in repair (chasing parts no longer available), retrofit or some training mode (on the ground). All in the best tradition of large defence, politically driven, contracts. The Americans are masters at such endeavours but they have money to burn. It should have been moth-balled years ago. Now with jobs and skills at stake something has to be done to flog a dead horse. Watch the final amount - 3.142 is an often used multiplier :)
 
Flanders said:
In fact, sorry, let me correct myself there. To my knowledge this system was pioneered here and adopted and adapted by the US for the apache.
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Correct.
We designed and built the system.
The Apache uses it under licence.
 
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