No EFF Coalition with ANC or DA

The latest is Mashaba is willing to sacrifice his Joburg leadership and go back to business if that's what's required of him. But Maimane made made it clear to the EFF that the people voted Mashaba and that's what the DA is sticking with.
 
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BBSA said:
The poor will always vote ANC or EFF, no mater who the mayoral candidate is or what the DA do. How many of the poor voted DA?

They just need to increase their support under the black middle class.

Good governance FTW
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I don't see where the implication is in my statement that cognisance of the poor should come at the cost of good governance. It was simply in response to a comment that the majority [of Jo'burg] is middle-class...

As access to information spreads, so will voter education. The ANC also thought the vast majority would 'always' vote for them, yet here we are... If the poor can see real change around them, the votes will come. Blind loyalty to the ANC sprouts, to a significant degree, from a generation in decline.
 
HapticSimian said:
I don't see where the implication is in my statement that cognisance of the poor should come at the cost of good governance. It was simply in response to a comment that the majority [of Jo'burg] is middle-class...
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The majority of JHB is middle-class. Yes, there are a lot of poor people but they are not the majority, maybe 30%
 
BBSA said:
The majority of JHB is middle-class. Yes, there are a lot of poor people but they are not the majority, maybe 30%
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Got a source of stats to back that up?
 
Excalibur said:
"Nobody won Tshwane, nobody won Joburg, nobody won Ekurhuleni, nobody won Mandela Bay...we'll be back".
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Alternative angle to Comrat Gwede's interpretation.
We have for years been bleeding support everywhere, but have been to arrogant to frikking care. Now we have LOST control of Tshwane, Lost control of JHB, Lost control of Ekurhuleni, and LOST control of Mandela Bay. Not sure where to from here.

Its all about how you interpret the skinning.
;)
 
BBSA said:
The majority of JHB is middle-class. Yes, there are a lot of poor people but they are not the majority, maybe 30%
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That's difficult to qualify and quantify, but if one uses the SAARF's LSM scale then the picture is a little more harrowing than you might assume. Without getting mired in details, suffice it to say that LSM 1-4 is classified as underclass, 5-7 as emerging middle-class and 8-10 as realised middle-class and up. There's a calculator here to see how you'd stack up... It's disconcerting how few of the little things most of us take for granted shoots one up the ladder.

Now, By the City of Jo'burg's own demographics projection (1.8mb .pdf) for its Sustainable Human Settlements Urbanisation Plan - admittedly from 2012 - the figure for LSM 1-5 stood at 57.8% back then. For only LSM 1-3 - wholly underclass - the figure was already 44.4%. I doubt much has changed in the past 3 or 4 years, and I wouldn't be surprised if the situation's actually worsened.

Not that I'm looking to pick an argument, mind you. I'm just trying to convey that it's of vital importance to whatever local government is formed, to not disregard the poor.
 
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HapticSimian said:
That's difficult to qualify and quantify, but if one uses the SAARF's LSM scale then the picture is a little more harrowing than you might assume. Without getting mired in details, suffice it to say that LSM 1 - 4 is classified as underclass, 5-7 as emerging middle-class and 8-10 as realised middle-class and up. There's a calculator here to see how you'd stack up... It's disconcerting how few of the little things most of us take for granted shoots one up the ladder.

Now, By the City of Jo'burg's own demographics projection (1.8mb .pdf) for its Sustainable Human Settlements Urbanisation Plan - admittedly from 2012 - the figure for LSM 1 - 5 stood at 57.8% back then. For only LSM 1 - 3 - wholly underclass - the figure was already 44.4%. I doubt much has changed in the past 3 or 4 years, and I wouldn't be surprised if the situation's actually worsened.

Not that I'm looking to pick an argument, mind you. I'm just trying to convey that it's of vital importance to whatever local government is formed, to not disregard the poor.
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I'm not saying you must disregard the poor, but I do not belief a big portion of the poor will ever vote DA.

The black middle class will be the key if the DA want to get more than 50% of the vote.
 
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BBSA said:
I'm not saying you must disregard the poor, but I do not belief a big portion of the poor will ever vote DA.
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Yeah, I'm not much for beliefs; I'd much rather have an opinion shaped by verifiable data. To wit, your earlier belief that the majority of Jo'burgers are middle-class seems wrong on the face of it, and I suspect time will prove this one of yours tenuous too.

The times, the are a changin'... even if sometimes frustratingly slowly. :)
 
HapticSimian said:
Yeah, I'm not much for beliefs; I'd much rather have an opinion shaped by verifiable data. To wit, your earlier belief that the majority of Jo'burgers are middle-class seems wrong on the face of it, and I suspect time will prove this one of yours tenuous too.
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How are you going to get verifiable data that the poor will vote for the DA in the future? One can only predict.

The DA received almost 40% of the vote in JHB, those votes did not come from the poor.

I still say, the black middle class will be the key for the DA in JHB, not the poor.
 
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BBSA said:
The DA received almost 40% of the vote in JHB, those votes did not come from the poor.

I still say the black middle class will be the key for the DA in JHB, and not the poor.
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Both will be, along with every other demographic. It doesn't make for a great approximation because voter turnout is normally heavily skewed toward the more affluent but keep this in mind, using the same source as earlier: LSM 6-10 (or arguably the real middle-class and up, if you will) together account for only 42.2% of the Jo'burg populace. The ANC were heavily punished by voters staying away from the polls. Yes, Soweto and the like voted predominantly ANC, but they did so in far smaller numbers than they could have which tipped the scales away from a metro-wide ANC majority.

The key to the future will be to start convincing those who would have voted ANC but didn't vote at all, either because of disenchantment or apathy, that they'd be better served voting for someone else. The ANC will be on an all-out drive to convince their supporters to turn out en masse in the next election. If they succeed, we will take a dramatic step backwards. The only way to counter that strategy will be to fight them in the trenches, across all socioeconomic lines.
 
HapticSimian said:
Both will be, along with every other demographic. It doesn't make for a great approximation because voter turnout is normally heavily skewed toward the more affluent but keep this in mind, using the same source as earlier: LSM 6-10 (or arguably the real middle-class and up, if you will) together account for only 42.2% of the Jo'burg populace. The ANC were heavily punished by voters staying away from the polls. Yes, Soweto and the like voted predominantly ANC, but they did so in far smaller numbers than they could have which tipped the scales away from a metro-wide ANC majority.

The key to the future will be to start convincing those who would have voted ANC but didn't vote at all, either because of disenchantment or apathy, that they'd be better served voting for someone else. The ANC will be on an all-out drive to convince their supporters to turn out en masse in the next election. If they succeed, we will take a dramatic step backwards. The only way to counter that strategy will be to fight them in the trenches, across all socioeconomic lines.
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Good luck with that.
 
BBSA said:
I'm not saying you must disregard the poor, but I do not belief a big portion of the poor will ever vote DA.

The black middle class will be the key if the DA want to get more than 50% of the vote.
Click to expand...

IMO it's in the DA's best interest to focus on the poor right now and grow the middle class. This is where their future votes will come from.

Let's be honest - most of us are living ok and can forego nice-to-have things like free wifi. Rather invest heavily in the poorer areas, not just on the bare necessities like water and electricity, but middle class infrastructure that we would expect in middle class areas. Things like efficient public transport, fibre infrastructure, wifi and so on.

Basically bring these areas up to middle class standards, thereby giving them access to information and education. This is the most dangerous tool that can be used against the ANC. And I'm quite ok living my current lifestyle and seeing little benefit for me in the short term, if this can be the end goal...
 
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