No ID book? No cell number

[Debbie]

So are you going to register them or chuck em?

Neither!

 

[bwana]

Neither!

I see -so you dont believe that the operator will comply and disconnect any unregistered accounts?

 

[Debbie]

I see -so you dont believe that the operator will comply and disconnect any unregistered accounts?

Yup! I don't think that this will be enforced ala FICA.

 

[Prometheus]

Asked whether the level of bureaucracy justify the outcome in the criminal justice system, Manyatshe said: “It will bring in more administrative work, but it is important to know who has a cellphone, it is.”

Yeah, sure it is. FU2 mate.

MTN is appealing that the deadline for the implementation be shifted. The act is still going through a series of amendments, according to MTN’s general manager for legal and regulatory affairs, Graham de Vries.

The citizens are appealling for the act to be abolished. But do we actually have a same in this fcked up country. I think not. Screw the dept of justice, we WILL use false names.

 

[Prometheus]

I have zero trust of these "regulations" - so open to abuse by gub or anybody who has access. Will we ever have another "free" election - I doubt it? Call it was it is: a return to the Police State.

Exactly the reason I will not comply, but what are "the people" going to do about it. Probably just sit back and wait for the tsunami to hit.

Great post and good points! I'm sure I read this whole thing (number registration, cell monitoring) was instigated by SARS? This is about random spying and knowing who made the calls. But it is so open to abuse by government - want to know the dissenting voices - look it up! Want to know who slept with whom? Look it up! Etc. We just don't need all this legislation - why not DO something with the 10 0001 laws that have already been written?

/edit/to me this is not about criminals - it is about ultimate political control.

You mean like actually enforce any of them. We'll have free broadband before any of that ever happens.

The Financial Intelligence Centre Act was an attempt to keep in line with international trends wrt money laundering etc.

Like that has made any difference. Want to remain anonymous then just transfer your funds in R4999.95 chunks. Want to be untraceable then just print out a fake "proof of residence" on preferably a stolen printer.

Aspersie - Save your money. Buy a pigeon! Ultimately there will be no unregistered phones - they'll all be shut down. Writing these words - realise this has to be a fiasco - what genius dreamed this up anyway?

ANC

BTW. Does anyone know what happened to that online form that Vodacom was working on?

 

[schitz011]

Pardon me if this has been asked before, but how exactly will having all cel phones registered help bring down crime?

I agree with all the comments about being a police state. This present gvmt is getting even more power hungry and it wouldn't surprise me if you started getting knocks on your door at 3 in the morning and a goon squad dragged you out of bed for making calls to 'suspicious' telephone numbers... If they want to know who owns the phone, whats to stop them listening in on conversations?

 

[Prometheus]

Pardon me if this has been asked before, but how exactly will having all cel phones registered help bring down crime?

That's exactly the problem it won't.

I agree with all the comments about being a police state. This present gvmt is getting even more power hungry and it wouldn't surprise me if you started getting knocks on your door at 3 in the morning and a goon squad dragged you out of bed for making calls to 'suspicious' telephone numbers... If they want to know who owns the phone, whats to stop them listening in on conversations?

The new law also gives them the "right" to do so.

 

[kilo39]

Pardon me if this has been asked before, but how exactly will having all cel phones registered help bring down crime?

I agree with all the comments about being a police state. This present gvmt is getting even more power hungry and it wouldn't surprise me if you started getting knocks on your door at 3 in the morning and a goon squad dragged you out of bed for making calls to 'suspicious' telephone numbers... If they want to know who owns the phone, whats to stop them listening in on conversations?

Cabinet gives nod to mobile interception

 

[Prometheus]

Reposted with correction:

With 8m-odd prepaid subscribers in the country, MTN South Africa managing director Maanda Manyatshe calculates that the company would have to verify 8 000 subscribers per hour (eight hours a day, five days a week), in order to meet the requirement that all subscribers are captured in a database within a year of July 1 2006.

I hope everyone waits untill June 30 2007 before making any attempt to do so. Then they will have an easy 2,920,000 to register per hour. Then I hope they can work just as fast as the DoC and ICASA. I can't wait for that fiasco or they will have to disconnect 88% of their revenue. Does anyone really think they will do that?

 

[kilps]

They have got to be jokeing right? I mean firstly look at how many of the youth use prepaid packs .. what about those under 16 who don't have an ID?

Besides that, this is what I categorise as an abuse on our right to privacy .. everything i have heard about this law is against that very right - were is our version of the Electronic Frontier Foundation? Were are the people sueing the DoJ for an constitutional abuse of our rights?

This is probably a prime example of how laid back us South Africans are ... we can complain like hell but are not very willing to do much about it - I mean look at the comotion in the US at the moment because of the NSA wiretaps ... here in SA wiretaps are practically given to law enforcers and a couple of articles are writen about it but now one really batters and eyelid

Pitty there is no money in activism

 

[jarr]

...The act is still going through a series of amendments...

wouldn't it be great if the cell phone operators would stand up to this act, on the basis that it is unconstitutional (even if they just did it for the sake of their own bottom line)? i mean, what's next... retina scanning and thumbprint id's at every public telephone booth?

and, just out of interest sake, do you currently have to present your id book when sighning up for a contract as well? if not, will contract users also have to go 'register' themselves?

 

[Highflyer_GP]

Yup you need to provide identification when signing up for a contract, as well as being credit worthy

 

[bwana]

and, just out of interest sake, do you currently have to present your id book when sighning up for a contract as well? if not, will contract users also have to go 'register' themselves?

Yeah - you do have to supply ID when you sign a contract - but that could be a cellphone company policy rather than a legal one.

I'm sure if it's unconstitutional the courts can strike it down right?

 

[kilo39]

Reminds me of the fiasco of new driving licences - we went from having a licence for life to having one that must be renewed every 5 years - in the name of illegal drivers... seems to have made no difference to illegal drivers - still 50 odd % of all drivers(?)

 

[jarr]

Yup you need to provide identification when signing up for a contract...

Yeah - you do have to supply ID when you sign a contract...

darn, there goes that idea

I'm sure if it's unconstitutional the courts can strike it down right?

well, i'm no lawyer, but it just sounds like it should be unconstitutional!
especially if you have the odd paranoid tendency...

 

[Prometheus]

Here's the problem with the constitution. Currently they can invade your privacy in order to obtain evidence. Not much protection is in place for law abiding citizens. A judge can issue a warrant if he believes there's "reasonable" suspicion to show that a person is guilty without anyone even blinking an eyelid if they are wrong. Now they seem to be skipping that stage altogether and now they even want to take away the power of the judiciary to decide over constitutional matters. What use will our constitution serve then? It will be nothing but another meaningless document.

They have gone too far in the past already. Imo they should no longer have any legal means by which to invade on our privacy. Before they can enter any premises or system to search for evidence they should have indisputable evidence to back up their suspicions and there should be very clear and established consequences if they are wrong. If you think that is taking it too far then just consider that they are the ones that have shown us they can't be trusted. They should be treated like they are treating the citizens of this country. They have abused their rights and now they should lose them, no exception.

I wish to God that the so called "boeremag" can bring this government to its knees. But unfortunitely their plans weren't very feasible. That's if there was ever any plans to begin with and our incompetent government (who doesn't even know the maximum speed of our ADSL) was able to interpret them correctly. It might be a bit off topic, but unfortunately that's the only way we will ever see freedom again in this country.

 

[Prometheus]

darn, there goes that idea well, i'm no lawyer, but it just sounds like it should be unconstitutional!
especially if you have the odd paranoid tendency...

Well, actually it's completely unconstitutional, but then so are a lot of other laws that has been in effect for decades. And as I said don't forget who will from now on decide what is constitutional and what is not; the parliament, aka ANC.

 

[JimM]

Here's the scenario.

You can't get a SIM pack as you have no ID.

You've not be able to steal one either... Even though you're a tough criminal?

You need a cellphone to commit some sort of crime...

You get someone returning from the UK to bring you a: Orange, O2, Vodafone, T-Mobile, Virgin Mobile, Tesco Mobile or Fresh SIM pack. You can top up the account by swipe style Electronic Top-up-card in the UK (almost anywhere) so you'll either need someone to do this in the UK before they leave or if they are still in the UK send them a text or e-mail and ask them to top you up...

You insert the UK SIM into your handset in South Africa and dependant on the UK network you chose, you'll be able to roam and make calls on either MTN or Vodacom.

UK SIM's can be bought in the usual cellular stores plus about every supermarket in the UK and you can top the account up when you go to the tills to pay!

Although "roaming" calls to in-country numbers are not that expensive!

 

[Prometheus]

What about skype calls and encrypted emails? Do these government idiots really think that a criminal who can make a false id and even make a bomb is too stupid to use the internet? Come on people, this is aimed at the law abiding citizen so they can invade YOUR privacy in order to catch you for every parking ticket which you "should have gotten" or find out about what you were "confused" about on your tax return form or what grape you "accidentally" ate at the supermarket yesterday. Don't be so naive as to think it's anything else. Refuse to register your phone or sim. They will quickly take the gov to court for potential lost revenue if they have to implement this.

 

[Highflyer_GP]

The networks keep a record of voice and text data anyway, so if anyone wanted to invade your privacy the records are already there. Prometheus I'll say it again, nobody wants to invade your privacy, nobody cares who you have phone sex with and whether it's with a guy or a girl. This has nothing to do with your precious privacy. It's just a flawed idea, which should have been better thought out, that's going to cause a lot of inconvenience.