Nokia burning though cash reserves

[Elimentals]

Well, Gartner estimates that Nokia accounts for over 60% of WP7 sales out there and if you look at the figures that came out of China and Russia, WP7 in Q1 2012 has already surpassed iOS in market share. The same Gartner estimates Samsung only accounts for 40% in Android sales, in China and Russia at least, Nokia's choice seems to be paying off with just a few months of activity in those markets. I dont expect the WP7 trend of it outselling iOS in the mature markets, but they will grab a few percentage points of share and Nokia will benefit more than any other, IMO

http://hexus.net/mobile/news/windows-phone/39601-windows-phones-outsell-iphone-q1-china-russia/

What does that bring to the argument? Please explain that to me?

I said include not focus. Yes its a big diffidence when it comes to people's perception.

 

[sox63]

What does that bring to the argument? Please explain that to me?

I said include not focus. Yes its a big diffidence when it comes to people's perception.

Dude, I was just continuing on from my profitabilty comment. Being the bigger fish in WP7 pond will give Nokia the better placed chance on capitalising on WP7 increasing market share

 

[Elimentals]

Dude, I was just continuing on from my profitabilty comment. Being the bigger fish in WP7 pond will give Nokia the better placed chance on capitalising on WP7 increasing market share

If Windows Phone was really that much more profitable than say Android do you still think Samsung or HTC would focus on Android?

Remember they stock both. If you where management would you stick to something that makes less money and forgo the product that brings in the most? See: HTC Titan, Mozard And say Samsung Omnia

 

[ClintX]

Only reason Samsung is not selling Windows Phones by the hundreds is because they don't market them. If profit was really an argument you would think they would focus on Android models instead of Windows Phone ones?

I've said it already, Samsung seem to like to take the easy road. Short term gain takes precedence. They don't seem big on doing the hard yards themselves. If Nokia gets WP to work they'll go running... this is where I hope Microsoft gives Nokia some sort of edge for being loyal.

 

[sox63]

If Windows Phone was really that much more profitable than say Android do you still think Samsung or HTC would focus on Android?

Remember they stock both. If you where management would you stick to something that makes less money and forgo the product that brings in the most? See: HTC Titan, Mozard And say Samsung Omnia

You are right, they have covered their bases. WP7 is relatively new and because of Nokia sticking with symbian for so long, their focus on WP7 has to be much larger. Should WP7 market share increase, trust me, the likes of Samsung will focus more heavily on it...

 

[sox63]

I've said it already, Samsung take the path of easy road. Short term gain takes precedence. If Nokia gets WP to work they'll go running... this is where I hope Microsoft gives Nokia some sort of edge for being loyal.

+1

 

[Elimentals]

I've said it already, Samsung seem to like to take the easy road. Short term gain takes precedence. They don't seem big on doing the hard yards themselves. If Nokia gets WP to work they'll go running... this is where I hope Microsoft gives Nokia some sort of edge for being loyal.

You are right, they have covered their bases. WP7 is relatively new and because of Nokia sticking with symbian for so long, their focus on WP7 has to be much larger. Should WP7 market share increase, trust me, the likes of Samsung will focus more heavily on it...

I think you are misunderstanding my argument. I don't say Nokia should now bring out millions of Android phones and start running Android Phone ads and go replacing the whole Windows Phone line up aka Samsung easy road.

I am saying they should have at least included one or 2 Android models. So for the users that want Android + Nokia they can have that without affecting there marketing push for Windows Phone.

PS: My stock Options that I bought in Microsoft(Paying out 2015) will tell that I think Windows Phone will hit it off big in the future so I am not debating windows as a success or failure. I am debating this as someone seeing a company (Nokia) bleeding customers to other OEM's. I wonder how many of you placed your money where your mouths is?

Oh the reason I say they should include them is so that the company do not fail or Windows Phone OS do not get blamed if they do. Simple as that. Cause trust me if Nokia Goes under right now, everyone and his mate will blame the OS(Windows Phone) and not the management at Nokia.

 

[Dups!]

This is really sad. I never owned a Nokia phone before but played with the N900 and Elop's decision to kill Meego was one huge mistake. Nokia should've continued with Meego alongside Windows and see where that led them.

I am afraid Windows will not save Nokia, Microsoft has the cash but the landscape has changed so much in the cell phone arena that people love their iOS and Android and just don't feel Windows phone.

Nokia are in an even bigger mess.

 

[ClintX]

I think you are misunderstanding my argument. I don't say Nokia should now bring out millions of Android phones and start running Android Phone ads and go replacing the whole Windows Phone line up aka Samsung easy road.

I am saying they should have at least included one or 2 Android models. So for the users that want Android + Nokia they can have that without affecting there marketing push for Windows Phone.

I hear that. And I'm certain they would have been successful but it just does not seem to be Nokia's way. I am trying to think what they would have lost by doing so and I'm not really sure, so perhaps you are right that it was part of the partnership agreement. I suppose it makes sense. If you partner with BMW and then carry on driving a Mercedes in the interim it just doesn't seem right. If you back a horse you should back it whole heartedly. I admire Nokia for this.

I am debating this as someone seeing a company (Nokia) bleeding customers to other OEM's.

My view is that the consumer is rather fickle, and not in the slightest bit loyal, once the tide changes they'll come running back. No one has ever denied Nokia's ability to build great hardware. They still have that rep.

I wonder how many of you placed your money where your mouths is?

I am still a Symbian fan so I will try to get as much mileage as possible out of that OS. My next phone will be the 808 Pureview. When WP gets it's act together and is able to support the hardware that Nokia can provide I will happily shift. I already contemplated the Lumia 900 but the Pureview camera lure is just too strong.

 

[ClintX]

This is really sad. I never owned a Nokia phone before but played with the N900 and Elop's decision to kill Meego was one huge mistake. Nokia should've continued with Meego alongside Windows and see where that led them.

I think what we should all realise from these discussions is that Nokia doesn't hedge their bets. Every option others are suggesting is a hedge. They chose an option and ran with it. Good luck to them and as stated Microsoft better give Nokia something back when the others comes running.

 

[LazyLion]

Nokia dropped the ball. That much is obvious. How they dropped the ball is another discussion... but the fact is... they dropped the ball.

 

[Syphonx]

They should have stuck with Meego and put all their resources into that, I've heard nothing but praise for the N9. They could have differentiated their phones from android but still be very competitive with no license fees or stupid limitations. I think a pureview meego phone would have sold 10 million without breaking a sweat

 

[damian24]

They should have stuck with Meego and put all their resources into that, I've heard nothing but praise for the N9. They could have differentiated their phones from android but still be very competitive with no license fees or stupid limitations. I think a pureview meego phone would have sold 10 million without breaking a sweat

Elop has done Nokia a disservice, the biggest mistake was likely the positioning the Nokia was going totally Wp and throwing the Symbian to Meego upgrade path out, they did this at a time when the n9 was a contractual requirement.

You're crossing between platforms and then announce that the upgrade path is essentially dead and being replaced by WP, you're going to hemmorage customers if your positioning becomes confused.

They messed up, it clear from their present financial woes. Perhaps it would have been better to continue backing Meego while positioning WP as an addition to the suite and not a replacement. I personally dropped them for this very reason.

D

 

[Elimentals]

Elop has done Nokia a disservice, the biggest mistake was likely the positioning the Nokia was going totally Wp and throwing the Symbian to Meego upgrade path out, they did this at a time when the n9 was a contractual requirement.

You're crossing between platforms and then announce that the upgrade path is essentially dead and being replaced by WP, you're going to hemmorage customers if your positioning becomes confused.

They messed up, it clear from their present financial woes. Perhaps it would have been better to continue backing Meego while positioning WP as an addition to the suite and not a replacement. I personally dropped them for this very reason.

D

I have a feeling the reasoning for that was the same for not stocking Android models. Its in the contract between Microsoft and Nokia.

You can not blame Microsoft for it either. I would place the same clause in the contract if I was them cause the last thing you want is to give some company Millions of dollars and they use it to develop a rival OS.

 

[KleinBoontjie]

I think you are misunderstanding my argument. I don't say Nokia should now bring out millions of Android phones and start running Android Phone ads and go replacing the whole Windows Phone line up aka Samsung easy road.

I am saying they should have at least included one or 2 Android models. So for the users that want Android + Nokia they can have that without affecting there marketing push for Windows Phone.

PS: My stock Options that I bought in Microsoft(Paying out 2015) will tell that I think Windows Phone will hit it off big in the future so I am not debating windows as a success or failure. I am debating this as someone seeing a company (Nokia) bleeding customers to other OEM's. I wonder how many of you placed your money where your mouths is?

Oh the reason I say they should include them is so that the company do not fail or Windows Phone OS do not get blamed if they do. Simple as that. Cause trust me if Nokia Goes under right now, everyone and his mate will blame the OS(Windows Phone) and not the management at Nokia.

I also would've liked to see Nokia try at least one Android handset (Put one toe in to test the water!?!?), just to test the market. IMO it would have been a killing. Cult groups would've formed around that device.

 

[Elimentals]

I also would've liked to see Nokia try at least one Android handset (Put one toe in to test the water!?!?), just to test the market. IMO it would have been a killing. Cult groups would've formed around that device.

It would have formed a religion. Just look at what people did to the N900 should give you an idea. With that said if you really really want a Android based Nokia you can always go N9 and install ICS on it. There is a rom for it.

 

[McCrazieGoalz]

Wait and see what will happen when Windows 8 and WP8 (Apollo) are released.

Android shmandroid. Droid shmoid.

 

[AstroTurf]

Symbian sucked pretty hard if you ask me, but I do still hope Nokia sticks around and brings something that's actually competitive to the market

this

 

[ClintX]

They should have stuck with Meego and put all their resources into that, I've heard nothing but praise for the N9. They could have differentiated their phones from android but still be very competitive with no license fees or stupid limitations. I think a pureview meego phone would have sold 10 million without breaking a sweat

It's rather interesting you say that as most of the commentary coming out about WP seems to be praise too. It has a way to go yet to get to the same level of functionality as Symbian but, hell, so do Android and iOS.

Symbian sucked pretty hard if you ask me, but I do still hope Nokia sticks around and brings something that's actually competitive to the market

this

The three words "bandwagon", "jump" and "on" come to mind when I read comments like this. All of a sudden it has become popular to bash Symbian and everyone is doing it.

 

[icyrus]

Had Nokia chosen Android that negative spiral would have reversed. I have always liked Nokia hardware. Their OS is what is holding them back.

All Nokia could have done was include Androids models in there line up, they could have kept up with the Windows Marketing and focus on Windows Phone but at least would have enjoyed the sales of their Android models in thus blocking the current leak wait refraze current surge of customers changing brands just to get Android Phones.

This is counter to reality. There is only one phone maker that sells Android devices that isn't losing money hand over fist. The rest are in an even worse position than Nokia.

So how exactly would Android have helped Nokia?