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Nov 2005 Broadband Report
- Thread starter rpm
- Start date
Hi rpm,
yes of course research can only be factual, however.......
The results of the research are not based on ALL the facts....
A result of 76% for telkom 384kbps broadband would be laughable
in the international context of broadband.
May I suggest that the report is withdrawn until it includes all the facts.
yes of course research can only be factual, however.......
The results of the research are not based on ALL the facts....
A result of 76% for telkom 384kbps broadband would be laughable
in the international context of broadband.
May I suggest that the report is withdrawn until it includes all the facts.
Hi again nOhIwAy
Since this is a local broadband comparison, international comparisons are not needed here. The purpose of this report is to inform users about the best broadband options in South Africa, and not to compare our services to international offerings. There is a place for that and we will certainly produce such information in future.
Regards,
RPM
Since this is a local broadband comparison, international comparisons are not needed here. The purpose of this report is to inform users about the best broadband options in South Africa, and not to compare our services to international offerings. There is a place for that and we will certainly produce such information in future.
Regards,
RPM
sunsoffun
Expert Member
@nOhIwAy - What RPM is trying to say, "which company is going to screw you over more."
sunsoffun said:
Agreed, he has been saying this for years, but............
This research is fundamentally flawed and produces false results.
Nobody on this earth, so far, can deliver mobile broadband in competition with fixed line broadband,
so comparing these different technologies in the way this research does is meaningless.
The few variables included in this research model produce false results because it has been oversimplified.
SA "mobile" broadband performance and cost is quite comparable with international trends.
SA fixed line broadband is completely out of skelter with international.
And yet this research concludes the opposite of the facts in the real world.
TheRoDent
Cool Ideas Rep
nOhIwAy, the results are just that. Results. Simple empirical basic tests.
If you are an internet user in South Africa, the fact is that as far as quality of service is concerned, as shown by empirical testing: ADSL is the best choice. We can argue semantics and value and ripoffs for all we want. Bottom line is that ADSL outperforms all other advertised "broadband" services in the criteria selected for these tests.
The report doesn't say that we're not being screwed by Telkom. It just says that as far as service goes, ADSL outperforms other services. If we had an SNO offering DSL services the pricing would likely look better. But as we all know, the SNO is "Real Soon Now (tm)" status.
All other supposed "broadband" providers in South Africa are using Telkom's pricing as a base measure, because that's the base offering. This skews the market entirely. But in a skewed market the only true comparison as far as quality of service, and the other criteria selected is concerned, ADSL is a winner. If you consider that Telkom has an unlimited budget, unlimited resources it only makes sense that their service is the incumbent winner -- because everyone else has to compete with them on every other aspect such as international, and local bandwidth.
The report shows the truth. Telkom's service is better than everyone else's because the control every megabyte of bandwidth in this country, and they don't have to pay the prices that they are charging their competitors. Such is the bane of monopoly.
If you are an internet user in South Africa, the fact is that as far as quality of service is concerned, as shown by empirical testing: ADSL is the best choice. We can argue semantics and value and ripoffs for all we want. Bottom line is that ADSL outperforms all other advertised "broadband" services in the criteria selected for these tests.
The report doesn't say that we're not being screwed by Telkom. It just says that as far as service goes, ADSL outperforms other services. If we had an SNO offering DSL services the pricing would likely look better. But as we all know, the SNO is "Real Soon Now (tm)" status.
All other supposed "broadband" providers in South Africa are using Telkom's pricing as a base measure, because that's the base offering. This skews the market entirely. But in a skewed market the only true comparison as far as quality of service, and the other criteria selected is concerned, ADSL is a winner. If you consider that Telkom has an unlimited budget, unlimited resources it only makes sense that their service is the incumbent winner -- because everyone else has to compete with them on every other aspect such as international, and local bandwidth.
The report shows the truth. Telkom's service is better than everyone else's because the control every megabyte of bandwidth in this country, and they don't have to pay the prices that they are charging their competitors. Such is the bane of monopoly.
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TheRoDent said:
Hi TheRodent,
I really don't wan't to argue, but the results are not empirical.
(the performance graphs, sure)
If the report was empirical I would have nothing to say.
The results are based on an "algorithm" as rpm has said and this algorithm
has been applied to all the contenders to give a scale of squares to each
contender in a few variables and then a overall percentage result for each one.
So the results (percentages) are based on a model.
The algorithm is flawed and hence the percentage comparisons are faulted.
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Hi nOhIwAy
Maybe there is a misunderstanding. The results are 100% based on empirical testing. We have performed over 50 000 tests across 60 variables (lab based and with 150 volunteer testers), and the results were then analyzed using an algorithm (applying the weights you guys have given to each component of a broadband service). This is really the only way in which a service can achieve an overall percentage and where an overall comparison can be made.
I think TheRoDent summed up the rest of the issues quite nicely.
Regards,
RPM
Maybe there is a misunderstanding. The results are 100% based on empirical testing. We have performed over 50 000 tests across 60 variables (lab based and with 150 volunteer testers), and the results were then analyzed using an algorithm (applying the weights you guys have given to each component of a broadband service). This is really the only way in which a service can achieve an overall percentage and where an overall comparison can be made.
I think TheRoDent summed up the rest of the issues quite nicely.
Regards,
RPM
TheRoDent
Cool Ideas Rep
Looking at the "performance/speed" section of the MyADSL testing, the tests are pretty much empirical and the same across all services. That is the bottom line of the testing. Pricing is pretty much a basic set across all services too, not much to argue there. Reliability is pretty much empirical too, not much that can be argued there.
The only difficult thing to guage is support.
I've heard this kind of argument from many ISPs, MTN being the largest whiner. The bottom line is: If you suck on the MyADSL broadband report, you suck. And we're saying you suck because you suck, because we know you suck, and the users that participated in the testing said you sucked too.
You can argue all you want, but the results of the 3 largest factors measured in the MyADSL tests are pretty much down to empirical testing and comparing the results of said testing with the other sucky-contestors.
The only "vague" factor is support, and quite frankly, that is measurable too.
Keep in mind that the report is a summary of all the data gathered during the testing, then statistically corrected so that no single user participating in the test can skew the results. This is the algorithm RPM speaks of.
If you want emipirical proof, it can be provided in the form of loads of spreadsheet data, I'm sure. Keep in mind that the report is just that! A report on the findings of weeks of testing and user participation.
MyADSL is by no means a Telkom lover. That much should be obvious. But quite honestly -- when looking at the performance, pricing, and reliability data the bottom line is that ADSL is the best kind of connectivity available in South Africa. We're not saying that it's AWESOME. It's just that it doesnt SUCK AS MUCH AS THE OTHERS DO!
The only difficult thing to guage is support.
I've heard this kind of argument from many ISPs, MTN being the largest whiner. The bottom line is: If you suck on the MyADSL broadband report, you suck. And we're saying you suck because you suck, because we know you suck, and the users that participated in the testing said you sucked too.
You can argue all you want, but the results of the 3 largest factors measured in the MyADSL tests are pretty much down to empirical testing and comparing the results of said testing with the other sucky-contestors.
The only "vague" factor is support, and quite frankly, that is measurable too.
Keep in mind that the report is a summary of all the data gathered during the testing, then statistically corrected so that no single user participating in the test can skew the results. This is the algorithm RPM speaks of.
If you want emipirical proof, it can be provided in the form of loads of spreadsheet data, I'm sure. Keep in mind that the report is just that! A report on the findings of weeks of testing and user participation.
MyADSL is by no means a Telkom lover. That much should be obvious. But quite honestly -- when looking at the performance, pricing, and reliability data the bottom line is that ADSL is the best kind of connectivity available in South Africa. We're not saying that it's AWESOME. It's just that it doesnt SUCK AS MUCH AS THE OTHERS DO!
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kaspaas
Expert Member
rpm said:
Hi RPM,
maybe just mention it in the report. Maybe something like: We are aware of the following offerings, but these are not evaluated in this report due to too few volunteer testers..
Did IS provide support for the Labtesting?
Anyway, great work!
Kaspaas.
Kalvaer
Expert Member
Thanks RPM.
I see the upload results from the tests are not given, I know there where a number who could not do these due to firewalls and antivirus programs. Was there any other reason why they were left out?
I also wish My latency was always >400
Would there be any way next year to check latency in any other way? Doing a ping to certain sites as was done always gives a different result than what is seen in working conditions for programs, games, etc
Now it seems that until 1024 is cheaper.. I need to downgrade to 384, for the price i'm paying there is not that much difference to it and 512
I see the upload results from the tests are not given, I know there where a number who could not do these due to firewalls and antivirus programs. Was there any other reason why they were left out?
I also wish My latency was always >400
Would there be any way next year to check latency in any other way? Doing a ping to certain sites as was done always gives a different result than what is seen in working conditions for programs, games, etc Now it seems that until 1024 is cheaper.. I need to downgrade to 384, for the price i'm paying there is not that much difference to it and 512
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TheRoDent
Cool Ideas Rep
Kalvaer said:
Good luck. I stopped end August, after smoking for a similar amount of time. I also tried various methods. I have only one word for you: Zyban.
mancombseepgood
Executive Member
Gr8 report
I would have refrained from using words like "most reasonable" when discussing pricing. It has been used in the relative sense (as in relative to the alternatives), but nothing is reasonable when dicussing pricing in SA. Otherwise gr8 work!
I would have refrained from using words like "most reasonable" when discussing pricing. It has been used in the relative sense (as in relative to the alternatives), but nothing is reasonable when dicussing pricing in SA. Otherwise gr8 work!
I stopped in Jan 2004 after 20 years with the help of Zyban and Altoids.TheRoDent said:Good luck. I stopped end August, after smoking for a similar amount of time. I also tried various methods. I have only one word for you: Zyban.
Two comments on the report - apart from nice work. Firstly calling the 1024 the cream of the crop - I can soooo see telkom abusing that line. Also IMO the term broadband should not be used in any capacity wrt 384 or 192, or anything under 512 for that matter, lest we inadvertently create a definition for the term broadband.
On a side note - I think we (MyADSL) needs to define broadband. My opinion, at this point in time, 512k minimum.
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kaspaas
Expert Member
bwana v.6 said:
Maybe the report should be "always on Consumer Internet" or something similar.
Then the categories can be "broadband" and "always on slowband"?
That would put Telkom's lightning fast 192kb/s option in perspective.
anything less than 512 can still be reported on
Crummy_Gummy
Well-Known Member
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Hi
Just a thought. Would the consumers not have found a more application orientated approach to the testing more useful and understandable. A typical scenario would be, which network is better for games, voip etc. Port shaping would obviously come into play here. This sort of use based approach would abstract away from consumer unfriendly terms such as latency.
Just a thought. Would the consumers not have found a more application orientated approach to the testing more useful and understandable. A typical scenario would be, which network is better for games, voip etc. Port shaping would obviously come into play here. This sort of use based approach would abstract away from consumer unfriendly terms such as latency.
st3ve
Senior Member
Nice one thanks for all your hard work, sorry I didn't contribute to the bandwidth tests, will definitely do so next year.
So my MTN 3g sucks (no prob it's free for me), but thanks to your report it should improve soon.
And I downgrade from 512, but hopefully (thanks to your report) Telkom will give me a ring to say they're upgrading me to 1024 for free.
Now (MTN and Telkom take note) that would at least make me (and I'm sure many others) happy, for now.
Thanks to the whole team that put this report together and to the contributors. Nicely done
So my MTN 3g sucks (no prob it's free for me), but thanks to your report it should improve soon.
And I downgrade from 512, but hopefully (thanks to your report) Telkom will give me a ring to say they're upgrading me to 1024 for free.
Now (MTN and Telkom take note) that would at least make me (and I'm sure many others) happy, for now.
Thanks to the whole team that put this report together and to the contributors. Nicely done
st3ve
Senior Member
bwana v.6 said:
South Africa has some excellent journalists, they will do that for themselves.
All the other journo's who are reading this and thinking "Hey Bwana's right!" Here's my advice, "Go find another job you lazy sappers."