Online piracy

[Drunkard #1]

I feel like I'm wasting my time posting on this topic, but anyway.

The past few weeks of DSTV have worse than usual (which is quite an achievement, given how bad the monopoly broadcaster's programming is usually.) Eventually I cracked, and queued up 30 gigs of the shows I want to watch. Why should I suffer like a 3rd class idiot, while an American has access to a hundred time more TV content than I do, for less than a quarter of the cost in real terms? Birthright? **** waiting for the local extortionists Naspers to bring the content over. I want every channel available in the US, here, now, for the same cost and with the same rights as in the US. I will willingly pay for this service. As Garyvdh said "price and distribution", idiots.

Secondly, this whole capitalism/socialism debate is ridiculous. You're not discussing the merits of various political systems; you're discussing property rights. Rights which are granted by society (ie: rights that don't exist in nature), to persons (natural or legal), for the benefit of society. If society decides to restrict or revoke those rights, you've got two choices: accept it, or war. This is what's happening right now. Large corporations are fighting in the courts to preserve and extend their rights. Society has said no. Society will win, because the rights granted in terms of copyright are no longer benefiting society.

Capitalism works well when there is competition. When monopolies are present (through natural or artificial barriers to entry), regulation must step in to ensure a fair market. Corporations are, by their very nature, greedy, self serving, opportunistic entities. Given these two factors, and a lack of regulation, the entertainment business has become abusive. However, they are not bigger than society itself, and once society turns on an entity, it can either adapt or die. From my vantage point the entertainment companies have chosen to die. Stupid, but it's their choice, I guess.

The next few years are going to be interesting. I doubt copyright and other intellectual property (like the curse of "brands") will survive in its current form. It's just a matter of time. Until then, I'll continue to do my bit by breaking unjust and outdated laws.

As an aside: What does the law say about recording TV shows for my own use. I believe that it's legal. What about recording to PC? As far as I can see, this is no different to recording to VHS. So what about acquiring a show from the internet, but one which I'm legally allowed to record off the air? It's just a different method of delivery? Legal/illegal? So can I legally obtain from the internet any show which I could legally have recorded to my PC? What about shows that haven't yet been broadcast? I assume that they're illegal to download; but what about after that show is broadcast? Does my copy then become legal? Just wondering...

 

[JoSorc]

so what exactly is your point?

If you don't want it pirated then make it widely available for a cheap price direct to the public with no restrictions. Otherwise, yes, it is going to be pirated.. just because it is there. If you don't want it pirated then don't put it on the internet. Even then, someone else is going to upload it and distribute it. That is a fact of life. Is it wrong or not? yes, no, maybe? Who cares? not me. Not the pirates. The only way to fight piracy is through price and distribution.

We don't give a **** about the content distributors, the middle men, the fat cats, the industry execs. They can rot in hell. They are worse pirates than us and far more greedy.... but pirates do care about the content creators. The movie producers, actors, singers and bands. We want them to be rewarded and we would rather reward them directly. With money if we can, with our money, and if that is not possible then with popularity.

Find a way to get the movies and music DIRECTLY to the public at a cheap price and the large part of the piracy will go away. It will never go away completely, but a lot of it will go away. People will always download, yes... that is a fact of life. They will always share and distribute. It has been happening for millions of years since Thug the first caveman invented a shovel (the next day he woke up and Brug next door had already copied his shovel and told ten other people how to make one).

I would guess that 90% of piracy exists because people want the stuff easily and directly at a cheap rate (or free). So the only way to provide them and make a profit is to give it to them how they want it at the cheapest rate or supported by advertising. Fortunately the Internet lends itself to that easy distribution model.

It is not a social protest, but a social revolution, a social phenomena... and the cat is out of the bag and will not go back. The internet has created a global network of consumers. The smart content producers will harness that demand and make a truckload of money out of it. The stupid content distributors will continue to fight their very consumers, and will eventually shrivel up and die. Simple economics.

I know a lot of pirates, including myself. But very few I know are not purchasers. We all have extensive DVD and music collections and continue to add to that all the time. We are not the enemy - we are the cash cow... just ask my credit card company.

The trick will be to turn the up and coming generation into online purchasers as well. I have said this before... but the company that comes up with a model where a user/downloader can buy a certain number of credits and then download as much as he wants and gets a lifetime license to that content at the same time. That man will be a billionaire.

Whoa! Who are you to tell me which model I must use to license my intellectual property? Isn't that a little hypocritical? As for you knowing a lot of pirates. So do I. As a web application programmer who has been on the internet since 1995, there is nothing you can tell me about pirating. I was one of the first people in the country to get a satellite connection specifically to download. Maybe some do buy games after they play them and really like them. Very few buy music. I've come to realise over the years that it's wrong. What bugs me is the shouting from the rooftops 'look at me, I can pirate and download 10GB's a month and there is nothing you can do about' . Authorities don't like this and it will lead to a reduction in personal freedom.

Also, serious question, what is it with this culture of entitlement today? I can't afford it, so **** it, I'll just take it?

 

[JoSorc]

The past few weeks of DSTV have worse than usual (which is quite an achievement, given how bad the monopoly broadcaster's programming is usually.) Eventually I cracked, and queued up 30 gigs of the shows I want to watch. Why should I suffer like a 3rd class idiot, while an American has access to a hundred time more TV content than I do, for less than a quarter of the cost in real terms?

Then **** off and watch their mindless **** in their country. You'll still download there and you'll do it quicker and leave some bandwidth for the rest of us.

 

[cybershark]

Whoa! Who are you to tell me which model I must use to license my intellectual property? Isn't that a little hypocritical? As for you knowing a lot of pirates. So do I. As a web application programmer who has been on the internet since 1995, there is nothing you can tell me about pirating. I was one of the first people in the country to get a satellite connection specifically to download. Maybe some do buy games after they play them and really like them. Very few buy music. I've come to realise over the years that it's wrong. What bugs me is the shouting from the rooftops 'look at me, I can pirate and download 10GB's a month and there is nothing you can do about' . Authorities don't like this and it will lead to a reduction in personal freedom.

Also, serious question, what is it with this culture of entitlement today? I can't afford it, so **** it, I'll just take it?

So when is self application of hypocritical standard going to take place?

Then **** off and watch their mindless **** in their country. You'll still download there and you'll do it quicker and leave some bandwidth for the rest of us.

This comment exudes ignorance.

 

[killadoob]

So josorc you used to pirate but now preach .

Ok then.

 

[JoSorc]

So josorc you used to pirate but now preach .

Ok then.

Can't recall ever saying I didn't or don't download software in contravention of copyright. I do not download music, I buy it. I'm questioning a) the attempt to motivate a reason for it b) the stupid greed involved in downloading 10's of GB of things that you never use or pass.

 

[LazyLion]

Whoa! Who are you to tell me which model I must use to license my intellectual property? Isn't that a little hypocritical?

I really don't give a rat's shaved bum which distribution model you use. Adapt or die.

As for you knowing a lot of pirates. So do I. As a web application programmer who has been on the internet since 1995, there is nothing you can tell me about pirating. I was one of the first people in the country to get a satellite connection specifically to download.

Whoopee for you! Want a Noddy badge? So this fact makes you qualified to make a moral judgement on the rest of us?

Maybe some do buy games after they play them and really like them. Very few buy music. I've come to realise over the years that it's wrong. What bugs me is the shouting from the rooftops 'look at me, I can pirate and download 10GB's a month and there is nothing you can do about' . Authorities don't like this and it will lead to a reduction in personal freedom.

Like I said before... they can try and crack down as much as they want... but the cat is out of the bag. They will never put it back in. The pirates will always find a way. Adapt or die.

Also, serious question, what is it with this culture of entitlement today? I can't afford it, so **** it, I'll just take it?

It's called the Internet. It is the nature of the Internet. If you have been so long on the internet surely you should know this? It is basic human nature to share stuff. Other people are greedy yes... but most of us just like to share. Find a way to make a profit from it. Adapt or die.

 

[Zewp]

It is the nature of the world that people kill each other for money. We can't change it, nor should we try to change it. People are greedy. Adapt or die.

Anyway, bickering over piracy over the internet is an exercise in futility. You aren't going to change anyone's view on the matter and you're just going to waste unnecessary bandwidth. People are greedy. They always seek to justify their greed to the point where they believe they are actually in the right or that there is nothing wrong with it, because 'a lot of people do it'. This phenomenon isn't limited to software piracy either. That's just the way things work. Nobody is going to change just because somebody on the internet tells them to.

 

[PeterCH]

Can't recall ever saying I didn't or don't download software in contravention of copyright. I do not download music, I buy it.

Good. The RIAA exec thanks you for the coke and hooker.

I'm questioning a) the attempt to motivate a reason for it

I'm questioning your one man crusade to force everyone to think like YOU. Your way of thinking in my mind, is not correct.

b) the stupid greed involved in downloading 10's of GB of things that you never use or pass.

Exactly. If the marketers had forced the pirate to buy all that stuff he'd never want to use it would be fraud or extortion or marketing. We buy hyped up products most of us hardly or ever use and we pay good money for junk. I don't think that's fair. We can say it would have been better for the person concerned NOT to have bought that 'never use' content. If that's the case, and he downloads it, he is not costing anyone anything. He is just spending money at his ISP who is making a profit. At least someone benefits. Secondly, he may brag about his collection and how he has all 256 episodes of LOST and how that must be a good show. Someone else will hear, and buy it - after all it must be a good show if people are downloading it.

 

[PeterCH]

Whoa! Who are you to tell me which model I must use to license my intellectual property?

That's up to you. You should chose the model which gives you most profit, however you should not rely on the government to protect your business. That I will vote against at every opportunity I get. My tax should not go to protect your business.

As a web application programmer who has been on the internet since 1995, there is nothing you can tell me about pirating. I was one of the first people in the country to get a satellite connection specifically to download.

So you pirated. Then you became more affluent and started programing and got greedy? Perhaps you imagined that there are 1000s of people downloading your program.

Maybe some do buy games after they play them and really like them. Very few buy music. I've come to realise over the years that it's wrong. What bugs me is the shouting from the rooftops 'look at me, I can pirate and download 10GB's a month and there is nothing you can do about' . Authorities don't like this and it will lead to a reduction in personal freedom.

Studies have shown that people who download also buy more than those who don't pirate at all. So you're wrong. Secondly, protecting the music/movie/software industries (which make up less than 1-2% of the GDP in the US for example) should not be the authorities business. Those authorities should be thrown out of office. They're only protecting the MPAA/RISA/RIAA/BSA etc because they're getting kickbacks from these organisations. Governments like that should be voted out.

Also, serious question, what is it with this culture of entitlement today?

It's hardly culture of entitlement. You hear music in the mall and on your radio, you may as well download it and listen to it - I guess that's where it comes from. No-one wants to be a crook but since there is no cheap and convenient way for ordinary people to buy DRM free music, they end up downloading pirate goods. Much of the time the person would not have bought the music anyway and if not, that money ends up being spent elsewhere anyway. If a pirate has R100 and downloads the CD instead, the ISP made some money and R95 goes toward something else - someone else benefits. The most important thing is that no-one loses out. The music would not have been purchased anyway and the license holder is still able to sell the music to whomever he pleases, the license was not removed from him.

I can't afford it, so **** it, I'll just take it?

Yes, if it doesn't hurt anyone. If you're not removing the CD from the shop and you wouldn't have bought the CD anyway, no-one loses anything. Chances are that when this person becomes more affluent, he'll want to build up a collection of CDs with nice liner notes, merchandise and guess what - he'll want to see the band perform LIVE and for that, he'll gladly pay the ticket.

 

[PeterCH]

It is the nature of the world that people kill each other for money. We can't change it, nor should we try to change it. People are greedy. Adapt or die.

Your generalisation implies that everyone who wants a better deal is greedy. In fact you also offer justification for the companies which charge so much for music - their greed, too.

I'll paraphrase you.
Software companies are greedy. They always seek to justify their greed to the point where they believe they are actually in the right or that there is nothing wrong with it, because 'every company does it'. This phenomenon isn't limited to software sales either. That's just the way things work. Nobody is going to change just because somebody on the internet tells them to.

 

[Morgoth]

I'll stop pirating when bandwidth prices are more expensive then downloading movies or games, how much money do games make just through the advertisement on the CD itself? They are all a greedy bunch, it costs me about R300 per game in store, I can get a 2nd hand copy for less then R10, or download it for R50....

get a new model or stop complaining. The copyright legislation is outdated.

 

[PeterCH]

However, they are not bigger than society itself, and once society turns on an entity, it can either adapt or die. From my vantage point the entertainment companies have chosen to die. Stupid, but it's their choice, I guess.

It should be said that in the US, Hollywood, music and software make up about 1-2% of the GDP. Definately not 'larger then society' by any measure. The US could kill all the software/music and movies and still have 98% of their GDP.

 

[JoSorc]

Yes, if it doesn't hurt anyone. If you're not removing the CD from the shop and you wouldn't have bought the CD anyway, no-one loses anything. Chances are that when this person becomes more affluent, he'll want to build up a collection of CDs with nice liner notes, merchandise and guess what - he'll want to see the band perform LIVE and for that, he'll gladly pay the ticket.

Except that you give it to a friend who gives it to his friend and within a week 60 people have it without paying for it. And they never are going to pay for it.

 

[Zewp]

I'm not going to get involved in another half-baked, crappy piracy discussion, as none of us get anywhere in convincing the other party of anything. Just live and let live.

 

[leonb]

This is the "problem" with internet forums - its "faceless": kids (or inexperience people) get the opportunity to give their point of view, without the need for responsibility or accountability.

I really appreciate the technical advice and assistance I get on these forums, but when it gets to bigger issues (which need some emotional intellegance, or life experience, or even common sense), you can see the inexperience - either kids, or people that does get out of their house into the real world.

I mean, for someone to think piracy is OK, you must be really *****ed in the head. Where do you think you going to get anything to pirate if nobody is paying for it.

 

[Drunkard #1]

Then **** off and watch their mindless **** in their country. You'll still download there and you'll do it quicker and leave some bandwidth for the rest of us.

Oh sorry, you're a Web Applications Developer. I guess that makes you the perfect person to decide who can live in this country. Do all Applications For Permission To Stay pass over your desk, or do you have legions of bureaucrats to process the mundane ones? I feel privileged to have my Request To Stay Here processed by the chief himself! And those of us with real jobs prefer our entertainment "light hearted", it helps us relax. Something the Americans do quite well; but don't take my word for it, ask their billions of weekly viewers. Don't you get enough drama in real life, what with you being a Web Applications Developer and Chief Continued Residence Application Stamper?

This is the "problem" with internet forums - its "faceless": kids (or inexperience people) get the opportunity to give their point of view, without the need for responsibility or accountability.

I really appreciate the technical advice and assistance I get on these forums, but when it gets to bigger issues (which need some emotional intellegance, or life experience, or even common sense), you can see the inexperience - either kids, or people that does get out of their house into the real world.

I mean, for someone to think piracy is OK, you must be really *****ed in the head. Where do you think you going to get anything to pirate if nobody is paying for it.

Welcome to the year 2010, I think you'll find it quite different to your previous residence. How does it feel to be out from under your rock? Does the sunlight burn?

Your assertion that we're all cowardly "kids" or "hermits" is quite insulting, not to mention a fine display of your ignorance. Come over here and I'll tell you to your face that piracy is OK, how the old distribution models are outdated and dying, how the new models are thriving (with examples), and even offer you a few hundred gigs of content. Just because you've got some misguided trust in the laws of the US, doesn't mean that those who question their laws are irresponsible or immature. Here in the year 2010, we question everything. Also, we find the attitude of you "war generation" types quite pathetic.

Go crawl back under your rock, I'm sure your be comfortable there, just don't come out again, because the world is going to change a lot more in the next few years.

PS: I have to question the intellegance(sic) of someone who can't even spell the word (or use a spellchecker).

 

[JoSorc]

Oh sorry, you're a Web Applications Developer. I guess that makes you the perfect person to decide who can live in this country. Do all Applications For Permission To Stay pass over your desk, or do you have legions of bureaucrats to process the mundane ones? I feel privileged to have my Request To Stay Here processed by the chief himself! And those of us with real jobs prefer our entertainment "light hearted", it helps us relax. Something the Americans do quite well; but don't take my word for it, ask their billions of weekly viewers. Don't you get enough drama in real life, what with you being a Web Applications Developer and Chief Continued Residence Application Stamper?

Sarchasm lost on me Dronkie. Personally I can't stand mostly immature American TV programmes especially 'comedy' with canned laughter but that is MO. You want American TV? Why not go and live there? Have you been to America?

 

[JoSorc]

Come over here and I'll tell you to your face that piracy is OK,

Internet hardman alert!

 

[sin_x]

Come over here and I'll tell you to your face that piracy is OK, how the old distribution models are outdated and dying, how the new models are thriving (with examples), and even offer you a few hundred gigs of content.

Oooohh, telephone tough guy.
So scared.

Heres an idea. Why don't you run off to your nearest police station, and tell them that your illegal activity is OK. While all piracy advocates immediately default to telling you that "the law doesn't define it as theft", they all seem to overlook the fact that it is still illegal.

I believe that road traffic rules are outdated. I can speed whenever I want, and ignore traffic lights and stop signs, because when I get home, nobody has lost anything. Thats ok right? I'm sticking it to the man. How revolutionary of me.