Open Mosque to Host Christmas Unity Dinner

falcon786 said:
If you like it so much then go join them instead of singing praises for something you won't actually support when push comes to shove.
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Why should I join them, is that compulsory if you are in agreement with something?

Keep it coming, you can do better than that.
 
George Cloney said:
I don't know whether Hargey should be considered a non-Muslim or if the Ahmedia should be classified as a non-Muslim cult.
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They're not a cult, just ordinary muslims. This was decided in the Cape Supreme Court. Ahmadiyya have for ages been buried in the muslim graveyard. In the 1980s some local rad-trads under the influence of Pakistani clerics tried to get the Ahmadiyya excluded from the muslim section of the Cape Town municipal graveyard. The Ahmadiyya took them to court and won. Long before 911, the Cape Supreme Court, based on expert testimony by muslim scholars and clerics, made findings about definitions of jihad, what it is to be a mohammedan, etc.
 
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Arthur said:
They're not a cult, just ordinary muslims. This was decided in the Cape Supreme Court. Ahmadiyya have for ages been buried in the muslim graveyard. In the 1980s some local rad-trads under the influence of Pakistani clerics tried to get the Ahmadiyya excluded from the muslim section of the Cape Town municipal graveyard. The Ahmadiyya took them to court and won. Long before 911, the Cape Supreme Court, based on expert testimony by muslim scholars and clerics, made findings about definitions of jihad, what it is to be a mohammedan, etc.
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Why do you refer to Muslims as Mohammedans? It's not the first time.
 
Fury05 said:
Why do you refer to Muslims as Mohammedans? It's not the first time.
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The term has been used by the Catholics since probably around the 8th century. If you look up the Muslim invasions of Christian Visigothic territories it might provide a better understanding.
 
jingaling said:
The term has been used by the Catholics since probably around the 8th century. If you look up the Muslim invasions of Christian Visigothic territories it might provide a better understanding.
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Yeah I know the origin of the word. I also know that it was also used as a derogatory word to describe Muslims. Largely been made obsolete now as it is well established that the term of description has always been Muslim.
 
Fury05 said:
Yeah I know the origin of the word. I also know that it was also used as a derogatory word to describe Muslims. Largely been made obsolete now as it is well established that the term of description has always been Muslim.
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Not derogatory. How can it possibly be derogatory? Do you know what the word/name Mohammed means? ("Praiseworthiest".) Mohammadan is more accurate. Christianity is also a religion of submission/obedience to God, as several Christian Arab writers in the 8th-10th centuries have noted.
 
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Fury05 said:
Yeah I know the origin of the word. I also know that it was also used as a derogatory word to describe Muslims. Largely been made obsolete now as it is well established that the term of description has always been Muslim.
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It's still used in Europe afaik. First time hearing it's derogatory though. Suppose it depends on point of view, like Islamic groups wanting Ahmadis officially declared kafirs (infidels). To the Islamic groups it might not seem derogatory but to the Ahmadis it does.
 
Arthur said:
Not derogatory. How can it possibly be derogatory? Do you know what the word/name Mohammed means? ("Praiseworthiest".) Mohammadan is more accurate. Christianity is also a religion of submission/obedience to God, as several Christian Arab writers in the 8th-10th centuries have noted.
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daveza said:
A Mohammedan is someone who worships Mohammed.

A muslim is someone who worships Allah
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Arthur said:
Not in English.

Freudians don't worship Freud any more than Wesleyans worship John Wesley or Presbyterians worship the presbyteriat.
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In your interpretation it might be more accurate but to a Muslim it is completely inaccurate.

Some modern Muslims have objected to the term, saying that the term was not used by Muhammad himself or his earlier followers, and that the religion teaches the worship of God alone (see shirk and tawhid) and not Muhammad or any other of God's prophets, according to Muslim beliefs. Thus modern Muslims believe "Mohammedan" is a misnomer, "which seem to them to carry the implication of worship of Mohammed, as Christian and Christianity imply the worship of Christ." Also, historically the term al-Muḥammadīya has been used in Islam to denote several sects that have been considered heretical by mainstream Islam
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammedan

It's not a term accepted by any Muslim, nor should it be. It's the implication of the word itself and what it evolved to mean i.e an implied worship or semi worship of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
 
I am well aware of the muslim apologetic that tries to argue that all other religions take their name from a created being and are therefore false, whereas Islam doesn't (so they argue) and is therefore the true and natural religion.

That's complete baloney.

A Lutheran would be just as horrified to hear he worships Martin Luther as any Mohammedan is to hear he worships Mohammed. Lutherans call themselves Lutherans because they understand the European languages and don't for a millisecond think there's any implication about worship or divine or semi-divine. Period.

I strongly resist attempts by these moslem apologists to take over the English language and to tell us what we can and cannot say in our own language. Same goes for pictures of created things, like Mohammed.

I suppose you think that because I'm a Catholic I worship Cathol. :p
 
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Arthur said:
I am well aware of the muslim apologetic that tries to argue that all other religions take their name from a created being and are therefore false, whereas Islam doesn't (so they argue) and is therefore the true and natural religion.

That's complete baloney.

A Lutheran would be just as horrified to hear he worships Martin Luther as any Mohammedan is to hear he worships Mohammed. Lutherans call themselves Lutherans because they understand the European languages and don't for a millisecond think there's any implication about worship or divine or semi-divine. Period.

I strongly resist attempts by these moslem apologists to take over the English language and to tell us what we can and cannot say in our own language. Same goes for pictures of created things, like Mohammed.
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It's got nothing to do with apologetics. It's got to do with the fact that the term has never been and will never be Mohammedans. It's a construct used to belittle the religion itself and by implication Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as well. There is no other word that can describe what a Muslim is one who achieves peace through the submission unto the will of God. The deficiency of the English language to come up with a single term for that should not be held against Muslims. They are called Muslims because that's what they are.
 
Deficiency of English? Are you serious?!

Anglicans would differ. And it's their language, not the Arabs'. Mohammedans would do well to quit trying to impose the syntaxis of Arabic on European tongues.
 
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There are Portuguese Catholics who also use the term. But it's no secret they're still bitter towards Muslims for the invasions back in the day.

A warning was issued several years back for Roman Catholic women not to marry Muslim men. Most likely the same applies in Spain as they're also predominantly Catholic. South Africans are a lot more unified, don't you think?

http://islamineurope.blogspot.co.za/2009/01/portugal-cardinal-warns-against.html?m=1
 
Arthur said:
Deficiency of English? Are you serious?!

Anglicans would differ. And it's their language, not the Arabs'. Mohammedans would do well to quit trying to impose the syntaxis of Arabic on European tongues.
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Dead serious. Find me a term in English which defines a Muslim the way it should then you can argue your point. I'm not arguing whether the language is better or not. I'm arguing that the term Mohammedans does not fit the description of a Muslim.
 
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