Open Mosque to Host Christmas Unity Dinner

ponder said:
What's wrong with an open mosque? Churches allow & welcome all as far as I'm aware.
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Nothing wrong with the idea of welcoming anyone (which is what happens anyway, I've never heard of someone standing at the door asking for your ID before entering). I specifically said it could work if done properly.

The fact that it identifies itself as a Mosque, an Islamic place of worship in its classical sense, but then have something which is completely different does not make sense. I have no problem with the concept and that people believe that there is a need for it, but one cannot identify it as a Mosque. There are reasons why there are regulations and procedures in the mosque in terms of separation of men and women. Please understand I'm referring to a simple separation be it a curtain or partition in between, different levels upper and lower, front and back, whatever the case is. There are no Islamic sources whatsoever to support having mixing of sexes during prayer, afterward sure (even though conservative Muslims will disagree with me) but during prayers it's another matter. One needs to look at the entire Islamic system when understanding why things are done the way they are, you cannot simply pick a particular procedure and look at in isolation.

If the open Mosque founders could engage with the community and make them understand how this is Islamic (if it is indeed islamically based) then by all means label it as a mosque. Also note by saying that it cannot be referred to as a mosque does not mean I'm implying that they are not Muslim (people tend to say that once I've given this explanation) I'm simply saying they're creating something other than a Mosque.

I'm going to point out again there isn't a problem with the idea, best of luck and all strength to them, but one simply cannot base the idea on Islam. I'm also going to point out again that I have not found a single mosque that pick and chooses who enters the Mosque.
 
daveza said:
Are there any sources that prohibit it ?
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We've had this conversation before with falcon786 involved as well, I'm sure you remember it. Do you really need me to research and find sources on something well established in Islam?
 
falcon786 said:
And that was the only gripe I ever had with this mosque when it first launched is it's name,it's trying to indirectly imply other mosques are not open.

Nobody stands at the door to check if you are gay or even Muslim,all mosques are open mosques.

But you haven't addressed your attack on Fury05 ,I think you should apologize to him or show yourself out to be a bigot.
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This open 'mosque' seems more tolerant and accommodating to me.

Bigot, is that worse or better than being called an islamaphobe?
 
Fury05 said:
The fact that it identifies itself as a Mosque, an Islamic place of worship in its classical sense, but then have something which is completely different does not make sense. I have no problem with the concept and that people believe that there is a need for it, but one cannot identify it as a Mosque. There are reasons why there are regulations and procedures in the mosque in terms of separation of men and women. Please understand I'm referring to a simple separation be it a curtain or partition in between, different levels upper and lower, front and back, whatever the case is. There are no Islamic sources whatsoever to support having mixing of sexes during prayer, afterward sure (even though conservative Muslims will disagree with me) but during prayers it's another matter. One needs to look at the entire Islamic system when understanding why things are done the way they are, you cannot simply pick a particular procedure and look at in isolation.

If the open Mosque founders could engage with the community and make them understand how this is Islamic (if it is indeed islamically based) then by all means label it as a mosque. Also note by saying that it cannot be referred to as a mosque does not mean I'm implying that they are not Muslim (people tend to say that once I've given this explanation) I'm simply saying they're creating something other than a Mosque.
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I find their approach more open & progressive than the views you hold [Edit: or the religion prescribes].
 
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grantza said:
i have to ask (always a thousand questions from me), why is mixing of sexes not permitted.
judaism is the same to the best of my knowledge.
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I'm a bit concerned with derailing, want to post it in the other thread?

To explain it simply and for the sake of discussion, the wisdom behind it is to remove all distractions from ones mind during prayer (all those which are practical to remove). This applies to both sexes.

All laws pertaining to the regulations of prayer or salaah is based on the idea of ones awra or satr whichever term the meaning is the same. To protect those parts of the body or that of ones self which is private. Apart from the coverings which are mandatory for both male and female, as mentioned above during prayer it goes one step further. To engage is prayer with ones creator, there is a need for the individual to be focused on the prayer itself. Hence the wisdom of separation mentioned in the first paragraph. In the case of a Mosque particularly, it is an obligation on the males to attend the mosque and is considered sinful if not adhered to whereas there is no obligation on the females. I need to preface that there is also absolutely no restriction in women attending Mosques.

It's simply a logistical issue at the end of the day as to how best does one separate sexes to allow that complete focus.
 
Fury05 said:
There are no Islamic sources whatsoever to support having mixing of sexes during prayer
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According to to him:

Let me explain first that it's totally fine in Islam for men and women to pray together in one area.
The Prophet, He did not make or ask his companions to have a curtain or wall between the lines of men and women.
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He does specify that woman should be behind men but the separate rooms, walls and curtains, this is taking the separation to a level not really required.


Edit://
But as I am not in Cape Town, I can't see how the "open mosque" interpret this.
 
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Fury05 said:
Nothing wrong with the idea of welcoming anyone (which is what happens anyway, I've never heard of someone standing at the door asking for your ID before entering). I specifically said it could work if done properly.

The fact that it identifies itself as a Mosque, an Islamic place of worship in its classical sense, but then have something which is completely different does not make sense. I have no problem with the concept and that people believe that there is a need for it, but one cannot identify it as a Mosque. There are reasons why there are regulations and procedures in the mosque in terms of separation of men and women. Please understand I'm referring to a simple separation be it a curtain or partition in between, different levels upper and lower, front and back, whatever the case is.There are no Islamic sources whatsoever to support having mixing of sexes during prayer, afterward sure (even though conservative Muslims will disagree with me) but during prayers it's another matter. One needs to look at the entire Islamic system when understanding why things are done the way they are, you cannot simply pick a particular procedure and look at in isolation.

If the open Mosque founders could engage with the community and make them understand how this is Islamic (if it is indeed islamically based) then by all means label it as a mosque. Also note by saying that it cannot be referred to as a mosque does not mean I'm implying that they are not Muslim (people tend to say that once I've given this explanation) I'm simply saying they're creating something other than a Mosque.

I'm going to point out again there isn't a problem with the idea, best of luck and all strength to them, but one simply cannot base the idea on Islam. I'm also going to point out again that I have not found a single mosque that pick and chooses who enters the Mosque.
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lived666 said:
According to to him:


He does specify that woman should be behind men but the separate rooms, walls and curtains, this is taking the separation to a level not really required.
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See my bold. I'm not sure what your argument is.
 
Isn't it the norm already? Just the other day a Catholic Church in Northern Jo'burg hosted a market and there were a number of Muslims who attended, still in traditional Friday attire. Perhaps the media is creating a general sentiment of intolerance between religions, or is it a social media attraction?
 
WaxLyrical said:
Are men and women in mecca separated during prayer?
Must be a logistical nightmare during the hag.
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Just a correction, the pilgrimage is Hajj not hag. They are not separated. As I mentioned in my previous posts we do what is practical and in this instance it would be not only impractical but near impossible to separate people. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is reported to have said:

"Religion is easy, and no one overburdens himself in his religion but he will be unable to continue in that way. So do not be extremists, but try to be near perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded. Gain strength by worshipping in the mornings and afternoons and during the last hours of the night.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari (39) and Muslim (2816).
 
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