Open source Windows applications

Nod said:
It seems, that you thought that Linux would work like Windows, which it doesn't. The command line is the most powerful part of any *nix OS (Solaris, AIX, BSD, Linux, Mac, etc.). Having config files in plain text, is a major advantage over any other OS, that use binary files, as you need the minimum amount of access to the system to fix it. Granted, to be able to fix some of the issues, you actually have to know how your system works, and what hardware you have, and how all these pieces work together.
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So what you're saying is Linux isn't mainstream and cannot be used by anyone, only Linux geeks and gurus. Cool. I'll remember that the next time someone says something stupid like, Linux is a Windows replacement. They're not the same, wow, who knew? So Windows is for people who want to work and Linux is for geeks who like to tinker and play.

BTW I use scripts on Windows all the time and edit config files. Text base config files are not new and not unique to *nix OSs. I often use *.bat files on the cmd console to automate common actions while developing.

Nod said:
Coming from a windows background, you will struggle with Linux,...
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I actually don't struggle with Linux, I just don't think it's as wonderful as the Fanboys make it out to be.

Nod said:
...as windows tried to hide all the "complexity" from users. Which wasn't very smart in general, as it just dumbed down the user.
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You seem to be confused, the user is dumb and doesn't want to know how the computer works in order to use it. They want to just use it, most of what we do today on a computer is USE content. Create, edit, view, store, retrieve content. OS is actually irrelevant. So if the OS gets in the way of consuming content then it is a hindrance.

Windows currently gets out of the way and lets you play. That said the issue may go away soon as web based apps take over and the OS you run locally becomes irrelevant.

Nod said:
... but I would really suggest, that if you are serious about installing Linux, get somebody from your local Linux User Group, to assist you. In the process you will learn a lot, and maybe also see where you made a mistake (if you have).
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Local Linux user group? WTF, LOL... sure why not.

No I'll try the new Destros, when my cap allows, and see what new things Linux comes up with, but for now I'll stick with a real desktop OS, Windows7 64-bit.
 
Noruk said:
Here is the real problem with Windows, it has to support a LARGE amount of hardware, software and different users. So it gets it right 95% of the time and wrong sometimes. That's actually very good.
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Out of the box, Linux actually supports far more hardware that Windows does. Downloading drivers from third parties is not the same thing.
 
Noruk said:
Sure here you go... don't choke now.

http://threatpost.com/blogs/another-linux-kernel-flaw-emerges-114

http://threatpost.com/blogs/researcher-uses-new-linux-kernel-flaw-bypass-selinux-other-protections

Sure it's been patched, but what other latent bugs are in Linux which are never exposed because no one really cares. Why would malware creators/user focus on 1% market share?
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There are security updates to all OSes all the time. Anyway, crackers love that Wednesday that follows "Patch Tuesday", it gives them almost a month to play.

Microsoft has kept quiet about security vulnerabilities in the past - don't pretend that they are honest and upfront about everything.

Oh, and crackers don't need access to source code to discover vulns. I prefer the "many eyes" approach to the "we don't want to make ourselves look bad" approach that closed-source companies use.
 
Noruk said:
Sure here you go... don't choke now.

http://threatpost.com/blogs/another-linux-kernel-flaw-emerges-114

http://threatpost.com/blogs/researcher-uses-new-linux-kernel-flaw-bypass-selinux-other-protections

Sure it's been patched, but what other latent bugs are in Linux which are never exposed because no one really cares. Why would malware creators/user focus on 1% market share?
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1% of the home desktop market, not of the server market. Linux servers are very popular.

This is the area that people really try to hack for profit. This has already been mentioned.

Personally I'm tired of the whole Windows vs. Linux debate. Both OSes have a place in the world and both have benefits and drawbacks. I am just shocked by the resources consumed by Microsoft OSes. I would much rather my OS use fewer resources so I had more to use on something productive.

I personally use both XP and Linux. You couldn't pay me to use Vista though.

EDIT:...so your argument for showing how easy it is to "crack a linux box" is to post two fixed vulnerabilities?

Show me some unfixed vulnerabilities and then I will take that response seriously :rolleyes:
 
adrianx said:
Out of the box, Linux actually supports far more hardware that Windows does. Downloading drivers from third parties is not the same thing.
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Fudzy said:
No it doesn't.
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I'd like to see the studies that back either of these claims up before I make my mind up.

I've got to admit Linux comes with a lot of drivers and I have hardly ever needed to get something off the net, while with Windows you often need to use that "have disk" option. Although Windows is unrivaled with third party support and while that isn't a strength of the OS itself the fact still cannot be ignored.
 
I've never understood how some people manage to have so many problems with windows or linux.
 
adrianx said:
Microsoft doesn't write those drivers.

Remember, hardware includes things like components that go into fridges and toasters. :p
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No they don't but atleast even with the MS generic drivers you can get the screen to a decent colour depth and resolution.
 
Noruk said:
So what you're saying is Linux isn't mainstream and cannot be used by anyone, only Linux geeks and gurus. Cool. I'll remember that the next time someone says something stupid like, Linux is a Windows replacement. They're not the same, wow, who knew? So Windows is for people who want to work and Linux is for geeks who like to tinker and play.
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I see that comprehension tests are your Achilles heel.

BTW I use scripts on Windows all the time and edit config files. Text base config files are not new and not unique to *nix OSs. I often use *.bat files on the cmd console to automate common actions while developing.
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Good for you. Glad you're not new to the concept, yet you still complain about editing them on Linux. Strange.

I actually don't struggle with Linux, I just don't think it's as wonderful as the Fanboys make it out to be.[/quote
It is clear that you don't work with any unix type system for any prolonged period, and only seem to install it, so that you can complain how difficult it is, instead of actually really trying to learn how it works.

You seem to be confused, the user is dumb and doesn't want to know how the computer works in order to use it. They want to just use it, most of what we do today on a computer is USE content. Create, edit, view, store, retrieve content. OS is actually irrelevant. So if the OS gets in the way of consuming content then it is a hindrance.
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Users aren't dumb by default, as you imply. Certain people/companies just like to treat them as such. The OS should enable you to do your work as effective as possible. By knowing your OS, you can optimize it, to make your working habits more effective.

Windows currently gets out of the way and lets you play. That said the issue may go away soon as web based apps take over and the OS you run locally becomes irrelevant.
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No, Windows are in the way. Doesn't Vista suffer from that pop-up that asks for permissions the whole time, until you disable the security? Doesn't virusses, worm ,etc get in the way of your (average user's) work?

Local Linux user group? WTF, LOL... sure why not.

No I'll try the new Destros, when my cap allows, and see what new things Linux comes up with, but for now I'll stick with a real desktop OS, Windows7 64-bit.
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I know, coming from Windows you never had contact with a group of people that actually are out to help each other, and any other person that asks for it.

Noruk, please don't talk about subject you know little about, or at least admit that you don't have all the information.
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Fudzy said:
No they don't but atleast even with the MS generic drivers you can get the screen to a decent colour depth and resolution.
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You've got admit, Fudzy has a point.

It is still anecdotal, but he has a point.

Here is some more anecdotal evidence:
I had problems with a HDD controller not working with Linux at one point. It has subsequently been fixed, but it is pretty futile trying to get Linux running when it can't use the mobo's HDD controller.
 
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Hey Noruk, if you can deface my smoothwall at smoothwallza.homeftp.net then I'll agree with you that Linux is also vulnerable. :D

As is now, I still maintain that Linux is not vulnerable due to its open source nature, and that anybody can fix problems when there is vulnerabilities.
 
The_Librarian said:
@porchrat - was that a SATA or plain PATA controller?
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SATA Promise controller. They have a terrible Linux support history so there wasn't much I couldn't really do about it. Luckily the motherboard had an extra controller and I used that instead. Annoying because the eSATA port worked off of the promise controller so I had to do without eSATA.

There was a fix involving rebuilding the kernel with a fix that a helpful individual had provided, but the new kernel release was imminent (and I mean real imminent not Neotel imminent) and the problem was solved in it so I just decided to wait for the new kernel.

It has not been an issue since beyond 2.6.24 if I recall correctly, but it was still REALLY annoying at the time. :p
 
Wrong facts in article
Image editing: Paint.net

Originally started as a free alternative to Microsoft's Paint application, the latest version of this application is exceptionally powerful and a good alternative to the likes of Photoshop. The core application, which can be extended through plugins, offers layer control, unlimited undos, special effects and a large collection of editing tools. The download of the core Paint.net files is just over 1.5MB in size. The one drawback for real open source fans is that Paint.net is not entirely open source software, with some limitations on its use. But the source code is available.
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The source was available, but that was almost 2 years ago.

You can verify this on their forums.
 
porchrat said:
You couldn't pay me to use Vista though
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Agreed... vista is a bad mistake rolled up in an awful joke.

porchrat said:
EDIT:...so your argument for showing how easy it is to "crack a linux box" is to post two fixed vulnerabilities?

Show me some unfixed vulnerabilities and then I will take that response seriously :rolleyes:
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No my argument is that since a large part of the world doesn't really care about Linux, vulnerabilities aren't shown up so often, this kernel flaw was running around for the last 9 years. Open for all to hack and abuse, but no one really gave a toss because it's Linux. So how many other holes are there??? Oh wait, if we knew about them they'd be patched. Point is they exist.

Additionally how many Linux users, not geeks, will know that they should patch their Linux? The problem is that many, many, many Linux boxes in the wild will remain un-patched. Oh wait, face-palm, what am I worrying about, little old ladies don't use Linux... and the geeks all know, right?

http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2009021101135SCCY
http://www.linuxtoday.com/high_performance/2009010800835OSSWDV
http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/2009041501935SCKN
http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/2009040901635SCSW
 
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