OpenWeb ADSL Feedback Thread (Pt2)

[cableguy]

I unfortunately do not have details of the actual account with me at the moment, but I presume that a new password would have been issued at the same time as usage stats being activated.

If the client still has problems, please do not hesitate to let us know. We are always willing to help where we can.

The client does not want usage stats...

The client wanted a password reset.

 

[PostmanPot]

I unfortunately do not have details of the actual account with me at the moment, but I presume that a new password would have been issued at the same time as usage stats being activated.

If the client still has problems, please do not hesitate to let us know. We are always willing to help where we can.

As mentioned, the client asked for a password change, and then received a new account. I assure you that if you read back, you will be brought up to speed.

But we're going around the garden now, so we'll wait for MrBEEP to return.

 

[KALSTER]

Thanks, so you were not getting full speed after hours, which led you to investigating.

KALSTER?

Yes, ONE guy doesn't get full speed. There are MANY alternative, less ridiculous reasons why that could be. The question is how wide spread it is. It wouldn't make ANY sense for OW to share only a few accounts around now would it (in the warped universe where sharing accounts makes sense)?

My contention is that the basic premise is nonsense.

 

[cableguy]

I have asked Leon to give some more input.

Leon (Core Network):

OpenWeb does not share accounts. Each user is issued with their own username and password in order to access the network.

OpenWeb also manages its own network, and controls the amount of capacity it purchases, shares, shapes and divides.

Yes, ONE guy doesn't get full speed. The question is how wide spread it is. It wouldn't make ANY sense for OW to share only a few accounts around now would it (in the warped universe where sharing accounts make sense)?

My contention is that the basic premise is nonsense.

 

[KALSTER]

I have asked Leon to give some more input.

Leon (Core Network):

OpenWeb does not share accounts. Each user is issued with their own username and password in order to access the network.

OpenWeb also manages its own network, and controls the amount of capacity it purchases, shares, shapes and divides.

Thanks cableguy.

I already know this though. Sharing accounts wouldn't make any sense. It is just that some people here have been seriously questioning this and MrBeep has not been able to convince them otherwise.

 

[cableguy]

I have asked Leon to explain the setup to me:

Basically, we purchase large amounts of capacity from our upstream provider. We then sell individual accounts within the pipe. Shaping rules are then created to share the bandwidth.

Thanks cableguy.

I already know this though. Sharing accounts wouldn't make any sense. It is just that some people here have been seriously questioning this and MrBeep has not been able to convince them otherwise.

 

[Kido]

We can presume from what the client has said that the slow speeds have been ongoing, not sudden. And, especially after hours, when most folks are unshaped.

Kido, is this correct?

Perhaps once you've confirmed, KALSTER would like to comment.

Correct

 

[KALSTER]

Correct

And now with the new account?

 

[PostmanPot]

Yes, ONE guy doesn't get full speed. There are MANY alternative, less ridiculous reasons why that could be. The question is how wide spread it is. It wouldn't make ANY sense for OW to share only a few accounts around now would it (in the warped universe where sharing accounts makes sense)?

My contention is that the basic premise is nonsense.

Hey, you asked and Kido answered. I know it's difficult for you to keep denying the possibility of this warped universe.

Would you agree that since the OP attested to slow speeds, you are more inclined to believe the possibility of sharing?

There is a substantial amount of forum-OW-clients who complain about speeds, who would make up a fraction of the entire client base. This means that there is likely a substantial portion of the client base who could be experiencing poor speeds. My point is that having a lot of forum-OW-clients is surely a good measure of the rest of the client base.

Sure some are equipment/line related, but since the IS user stats portal is fairly unknown, added that most people would not think 'account sharing' when getting slow speeds, I don't think it would be fair for us to write off the problem as being ONE guy? It has happened in the past where these concerns were similarly brushed off.

And then combine the different answers in the past, things like OW wanting to block access to IS user stats, the issuing of new accounts, the authentication problems etc... So yes, the question is definitely how widespread it is, which would answer how much 'sharing' is done when we have evidence it is a possibility.

 

[PostmanPot]

I have asked Leon to explain the setup to me:

Basically, we purchase large amounts of capacity from our upstream provider. We then sell individual accounts within the pipe. Shaping rules are then created to share the bandwidth.

Could Leon please comment on this?

And why a new account was given, when it was a password change which was asked for?

View attachment 104878

View attachment 104880

 

[CTBP]

Damn! 10Mb in 48mins on my "10 Mb Gamers King, Downloaders Bling" account, oh happy days!!! I would recommend looking into changing the name of these accounts, just add a "maybe" in front, it's well suited. Blaming all these updates is no excuse to the performance I am and have been getting so far this week. Same S@#t every other week. I feel like I need to take my money elsewhere. 3.5kb/s :wtf:

 

[KALSTER]

Hey, you asked and Kido answered. I know it's difficult for you to keep denying the possibility of this warped universe.

I am not denying the possibility. It is possible, but it is also possible that a meteorite will kill you within the next few minutes. The premise of it just seems very unlikely to me.

Would you agree that since the OP attested to slow speeds, you are more inclined to believe the possibility of sharing?

Yes, like there is a higher probability that you'll choke on a piece of apple within the next few minutes than being killed by a meteorite. (please substitute "you" for "me" if you think I am trying to say something with "you").

There is a substantial amount of forum-OW-clients who complain about speeds, who would make up a fraction of the entire client base. This means that there is likely a substantial portion of the client base who could be experiencing poor speeds. My point is that having a lot of forum-OW-clients is surely a good measure of the rest of the client base.

That doesn't follow. People are more inclined to come on here to complain or ask for resolution of issues and even when there are legitimate problems, then there is a long list of much more possible explanations to account for it. One plausible reason given would be OS updates. You should expect a larger portion of complaining clients than happy ones. Extrapolating that into "This means that there is likely a substantial portion of the client base who could be experiencing poor speeds" is presumptuous, when viewed from the perspective of your proposed explanation.

Sure some are equipment/line related, but since the IS user stats portal is fairly unknown, added that most people would not think 'account sharing' when getting slow speeds, I don't think it would be fair for us to write off the problem as being ONE guy? It has happened in the past where these concerns were similarly brushed off.

Again, one guy's situation fitting SOME of the criteria one would expect from an account sharing situation does not tell you much when a host of other more plausible explanations are available. One would expect widespread, virtually perpetual speed problems if account sharing was commonplace, given that account sharing for only a few members makes no sense (in the warped universe where account sharing makes sense). When two people share an account that allows two concurrent connections, the account speed is halved the entire time both users are logged on, no? We have not been seeing such a trend and no firm basis from which to extrapolate such.

And then combine the different answers in the past, things like OW wanting to block access to IS user stats, the issuing of new accounts, the authentication problems etc... So yes, the question is definitely how widespread it is, which would answer how much 'sharing' is done when we have evidence it is a possibility.

The evidence is very shaky indeed imo. Occam's Razor demands the simpler explanation, which would be the usual ones given.

 

[PostmanPot]

I am not denying the possibility. It is possible, but it is also possible that a meteorite will kill you within the next few minutes. The premise of it just seems very unlikely to me.

Yes, like there is a higher probability that you'll choke on a piece of apple within the next few minutes than being killed by a meteorite. (please substitute "you" for "me" if you think I am trying to say something with "you").

That doesn't follow. People are more inclined to come on here to complain or ask for resolution of issues and even when there are legitimate problems, then there is a long list of much more possible explanations to account for it. One plausible reason given would be OS updates. You should expect a larger portion of complaining clients than happy ones. Extrapolating that into "This means that there is likely a substantial portion of the client base who could be experiencing poor speeds" is presumptuous, when viewed from the perspective of your proposed explanation.

Again, one guy's situation fitting SOME of the criteria one would expect from an account sharing situation does not tell you much when a host of other more plausible explanations are available. One would expect widespread, virtually perpetual speed problems if account sharing was commonplace, given that account sharing for only a few members makes no sense (in the warped universe where account sharing makes sense). When two people share an account that allows two concurrent connections, the account speed is halved the entire time both users are logged on, no? We have not been seeing such a trend and no firm basis from which to extrapolate such.

The evidence is very shaky indeed imo. Occam's Razor demands the simpler explanation, which would be the usual ones given.

I agree with most of what you've said. But I am not willing to renounce the possibility that account sharing may be more widespread than one user, if account sharing is the case.

The official response certainly is that it is not sharing.

Let's continue investigating the account sharing which you agree is a possibility. We'll wait to hear from Kido if his after hours experience has improved since receiving a new account (after simply asking for a password reset).

I will also kindly ask Kido to check back on the IS stats page in a few hours/days.

Also waiting for Leon to confirm as above.

 

[KALSTER]

Let's continue investigating the account sharing which you agree is a possibility. .

As likely as a meteorite killing you within the next few minutes, sure.

 

[cableguy]

The tool used here does not look like an OpenWeb tool.

Please only use the OpenWeb tools when monitoring usage. If your OpenWeb panel does not display usage information it means that usage stats are switched off on your account. Email us on [email protected] and we will activate it for you.

From my understanding, and as a former OpenWeb client before joining the staff, I do not see why OpenWeb would need to share accounts if they are paying for capacity as Leon explained.

Whether 1 or 20 people use 1 account or 20 different accounts, it would cost them the same amount of money.

Could Leon please comment on this?

And why a new account was given, when it was a password change which was asked for?

View attachment 104878

View attachment 104880

 

[PostmanPot]

The tool used here does not look like an OpenWeb tool.

Please only use the OpenWeb tools when monitoring usage. If your OpenWeb panel does not display usage information it means that usage stats are switched off on your account. Email us on [email protected] and we will activate it for you.

From my understanding, and as a former OpenWeb client before joining the staff, I do not see why OpenWeb would need to share accounts if they are paying for capacity as Leon explained.

Whether 1 or 20 people use 1 account or 20 different accounts, it would cost them the same amount of money.

1. We are not monitoring usage. We are looking at two sessions for one account from different locations.

2. Why a new account was given, when it was a password change which was asked for?

Leon's answers, please?

 

[wingnut771]

Too many cooks in the kitchen.

1. We are not monitoring usage. We are looking at two sessions for one account from different locations.

2. Why a new account was given, when it was a password change which was asked for?

Leon's answers, please?

 

[KALSTER]

From my understanding, and as a former OpenWeb client before joining the staff, I do not see why OpenWeb would need to share accounts if they are paying for capacity as Leon explained.

Whether 1 or 20 people use 1 account or 20 different accounts, it would cost them the same amount of money.

Good point.

Look at this explanation: http://mybroadband.co.za/news/adsl/87741-true-cost-of-a-gb-of-adsl-data.html

It means that at any given time, there is a certain amount of bandwidth available to be shared amongst all of OW's customers. Shaping rules manage the shared bandwidth to remain within the allowed capacity. Why would it make any sense to make customers share accounts? Having two people connected on the same account halves the connection speed the whole time both are logged on.

Conceivably one would be able to sell two, say, 4Mbps accounts, while only providing 2Mbps to each client, but that would ONLY make sense (if you were a crook) if you did it with a substantial number of clients. A large number of people with only half the account speeds they paid for at any given time would surely have caused major troubles by now, not just from the customers, but also from IS themselves. Instead you have a very few people who complain here and mostly they get their issues sorted out, by the CEO personally no less. Most customers who complain here still get full speed after hours. That wouldn't happen with shared accounts.

This whole line of reasoning is bunk.

 

[wingnut771]

Good point.

Look at this explanation: http://mybroadband.co.za/news/adsl/87741-true-cost-of-a-gb-of-adsl-data.html

It means that at any given time, there is a certain amount of bandwidth available to be shared amongst all of OW's customers. Shaping rules manage the shared bandwidth to remain within the allowed capacity. Why would it make any sense to make customers share accounts? Having two people connected on the same account halves the connection speed the whole time both are logged on.

Conceivably one would be able to sell two, say, 4Mbps accounts, while only providing 2Mbps to each client, but that would ONLY make sense (if you were a crook) if you did it with a substantial number of clients. A large number of people with only half the account speeds they paid for at any given time would surely have caused major troubles by now, not just from the customers, but also from IS themselves. Instead you have a very few people who complain here and mostly they get their issues sorted out, by the CEO personally no less. Most customers who complain here still get full speed after hours. That wouldn't happen with shared accounts.

This whole line of reasoning is bunk.

Then why did I have somebody else's name (over and over and over and over and over and over) instead of a login account sporting my own name like every other ISP I've ever used?

That alone puts too much doubt in my mind, and if I was OW, I would stop this practice immediately, which would drop the hostility instantly.

 

[vanstone]

It seems after hours has been throttled to just below half of the normal speeds this evening again...