Paleo diets = weight gain

[DJ...]

Not sure what you are saying here? All proteins are made up of amino acids, and they only get converted into glucose if there is nothing more useful for them to do (ie repair cells).



I think you mean fatty acids here. In any case, being in a ketogenic state has less to do with what you eat and more to do with glycogen depletion. Its possible to enter a ketogenic state while eating carbs and no fats - its just a lot more difficult. You would probably have to go on a long distance run to deplete your glycogen, then you would enter ketosis and start burning your existing fat stores.

There is a difference between various amino acids. While most amino acids are glucogenic to some extent, proteins reserve carbon during metabolism, and the remnants of this are stored as carbohydrates via a process called gluconeogenesis, whereas the carbon remnants from ketogenic amino acids form fatty acids via fatty acid synthesis pathways. One of two things results: in the former, it results in synthesis of glucose or lipids, and in the latter as previously mentioned it results in energy via oxidation to carbon dioxide (and actually H2O) via the citric acid cycle.

Amino acids come in glucogenic, ketogenic, and a hybrid mix of the two flavours. Only lycine and leucine are entirely ketogenic as far as I can recall - the rest are glucogenic to some extent, and in protein this is certainly the case. So glucogenic amino acids result in the production of molecules that are the precursors to glucose via gluconeogenesis whereas ketogenic amino acids result in the production or net increase of acetyl CoA or acetoacetyl CoA, both molecules being purely ketogenic and are not precursors to glucose and are not subject to gluconeogenesis.

In short, not all amino acids are equal and protein does not only convert as a last resort, although one could theoretically say the same about most glucose in any case in people who don't suffer from type 2 diabetes or the metabolic syndrome...

 

[Kosmik]

There is a difference between various amino acids. While most amino acids are glucogenic to some extent, proteins reserve carbon during metabolism, and the remnants of this are stored as carbohydrates via a process called gluconeogenesis, whereas the carbon remnants from ketogenic amino acids form fatty acids via fatty acid synthesis pathways. One of two things results: in the former, it results in synthesis of glucose or lipids, and in the latter as previously mentioned it results in energy via oxidation to carbon dioxide (and actually H2O) via the citric acid cycle.

Amino acids come in glucogenic, ketogenic, and a hybrid mix of the two flavours. Only lycine and leucine are entirely ketogenic as far as I can recall - the rest are glucogenic to some extent, and in protein this is certainly the case. So glucogenic amino acids result in the production of molecules that are the precursors to glucose via gluconeogenesis whereas ketogenic amino acids result in the production or net increase of acetyl CoA or acetoacetyl CoA, both molecules being purely ketogenic and are not precursors to glucose and are not subject to gluconeogenesis.

In short, not all amino acids are equal and protein does not only convert as a last resort, although one could theoretically say the same about most glucose in any case in people who don't suffer from type 2 diabetes or the metabolic syndrome...

Technical, smecknical

 

[Ancalagon]

Thanks for the explanation DJ.

I've been waiting for this to blow up in social media, but I don't think it has made much of an impact.

I do think it negatively affects the credibility of the university, that they posted this study. It really is poorly constructed.

 

[Vegeta]

Eat less, eat what you like, exercise.

So simple yet people prefer studies so that they can stuff their faces(the right way)

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Eat less, eat what you like, exercise.

So simple yet people prefer studies so that they can stuff their faces(the right way)

or do banting/paleo/whatever if it works for you ...... anything non traditional is always looked at by the backwards as not wanting to exercise or stuff faces. Archaic thinking is archaic.

 

[Batista]

Protein amino acids break down into glucose whereas the suggested ketogenic amino acids in most low carb "diets" (note, not all - most truly are fads and the morons don't understand what they're advising) supported by science break down into acetyl-CoA which is kind of the basis for ketogenic principles as it is the precusrsor to shifting the body away from glucose dependence. It breaks down into carbon dioxide in the citric acid cycle while stimulating ketone development in the body.

So if you're doing this to avoid glucose (cutting out the sugar and carbs) then you're largely defeating the purpose by substituting fat requirements for protein.

Eating fats does not cause one to get fat - that is a complete fabrication not supported by science. It's broken down into its constituents during metabolism so really, fundamentally and biologically it's such a nonsense line of thinking that for some reason has been brainwashed into people. In all likelihood if we called consumption fats 'lipids' or any other name this misunderstanding and fear wouldn't exist.

Certain fats (long chain fats) can contribute to poor cardiovascular health and can also contribute to metabolic syndrome development. However this is more nuanced than meets the eye and has to do with why certain types of long chain fats are bad. Animal fats are awesome though, and we should be consuming more in our diet, and spending time understanding why, which will lead one to the citric acid cycle, ATP cycle, cyclic AMP, ATP:AMP ratios and how that influences signal transduction and therefore the metabolic pathways etc.

Once people take responsibility for better understanding these things, we're in a better position to make decisions based on knowledge rather than "feelings". I sang lyrics once that went "I got a feeling, that tonight's gonna be a good night". That night was schit. Feelings are not scientific - they're fundamentally subjective or at least interpreted as such by our brains. Feelings also make for a really schit diet. I occasionally feel like eating chocolate. That doesn't mean it's suddenly good for me. Science helps us to understand how our body works. Feelings don't, and in fact often stand in the way of that. Case in point above...

Yeah point taken, BUT i have lost 16kg since Nov.I;ve been doing this for a long time so I know what works for my body.I can decide to be whatever weight I want at whatever bf% I want.I dont need to figure it out like how everyone else has to because i have spent years figuring out how my body reacts to certain foods.Im slowly increasing fat intake now because i;ve reached my ideal waist size and want to slowly pack on muscle mass while retaining my waist size.This is where i have to be very careful though and this is where most guys loose it while trying to bulk back up.

 

[faniebraai]

or do banting/paleo/whatever if it works for you ...... anything non traditional is always looked at by the backwards as not wanting to exercise or stuff faces. Archaic thinking is archaic.

convincing people of banting, is like convincing a religious nut they are wrong

 

[Ancalagon]

convincing people of banting, is like convincing a religious nut they are wrong

Even worse, try convincing people that a calorie is not just a calorie, and fat loss is more than just calories in vs calories out. They look at you funny and then they tell you that you are a lazy fatty who just wants to shove pies in his face all day.

 

[mister]

convincing people of banting, is like convincing a religious nut they are wrong

lol true... but you have to remember that people have had garbage preached to them about nutrition forever & ever amen.