spiff
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the only way to "punish" eskum is to STOP paying them. most of us have generators already so screw them where it hurts the most - the bottom line!
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Petition against Eskom
- Thread starter ettubrute
- Start date
orin76
Expert Member
Can wind, solar or tidal power be used for base load generation. In other words, can they provide power under almost all conditions 24/7? That's the kind of power SA needs, we have sufficient peaking generation for now.
orin76
Expert Member
LOL. Really constructive stuff there.
Studies have been done (I believe by Potch) that shows we can run completely green due to the various climate conditions throughout South Africa. If there is little sun there is usually wind.... etc.... didn't read all of it (700 pages plus of research) but it is entirely possible. The tides will never stop and the cows will never stop making dung.... there are ways and means and the bonus to all of this is is that these options are relatively cheap in comparison to nuclear or coal based power generation. They also create thousands of jobs that weren't there before.
Can't find the original research. Will keep looking and will post if I find it.
ettubrute
Expert Member
Please do!
problem is they will come down on you, they just to scared to go into the townships.....
About 2.5-3x as much as coal per MW...
FlatspinZA
Expert Member
Not to put a damper on anyone's grand ideas for renewable options & punishing "Eskum" by refusing to use their electricity, has it ever crossed anyone's minds that Eskom is not the only company in the world that could help with our power requirements?
Why has nobody ever called for proposals from foreign investors? Surely competition is healthy? Why does Eskom have the sole licence for generation of power in this country? Why not let some multi-national corporation build nuclear, solar, or even wind powered stations to supply Eskom's existing infrastructure? That would take a heap of burden off Eskom and us.
No petition is ever going to work in this country. Do you think Eskom, or the ANC, give a damn about a piece of paper with a few thousand signatures on it when nobody, but nobody, can tell them how to run this country, and its power! You saw what they did with that petition that Afriforum Youth tried to deliver to JM? http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/a...-hofmyer-nearly-come-to-blows-with-anc-police
Why has nobody ever called for proposals from foreign investors? Surely competition is healthy? Why does Eskom have the sole licence for generation of power in this country? Why not let some multi-national corporation build nuclear, solar, or even wind powered stations to supply Eskom's existing infrastructure? That would take a heap of burden off Eskom and us.
No petition is ever going to work in this country. Do you think Eskom, or the ANC, give a damn about a piece of paper with a few thousand signatures on it when nobody, but nobody, can tell them how to run this country, and its power! You saw what they did with that petition that Afriforum Youth tried to deliver to JM? http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/a...-hofmyer-nearly-come-to-blows-with-anc-police
Last I heard plans to get private suppliers onto the grid are underway, but it's pretty complicated. There's tons of regulations that would have to be put in place, it's a massive initial investment and the private stations would have to compete against the existing stations. The price hikes are actually more likely to see the establishment of private stations, as they're more likely to get a return on their investment once the price they can sell their power for is a bit higher.
XysteR
Active Member
Im going to work for eskom. Dont sign the petition, thats my salary!!!
FlatspinZA
Expert Member
Good on you - money is money, wherever you find it. Beggars can't be choosers.
Singularity1
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If understood correctly the reason Eskom stopped building power stations several years ago was to make way for independent power producers. However prices for electricity then were too low for private companies to make a profit the result is the current mess.
ettubrute
Expert Member
That sounds like BS. The reason they stopped is because they did not understand that maintenance and growth is necessary, and they were only filling their pockets. The market a few years ago did not allow for independent power producers! Monopoly enforced by the state...
ettubrute
Expert Member
Good joke.
His reason was correct. It was to give other companies a chance. Problem is, as stated, the profit margin is not sustainable for another provider. The government still did not allow Eskom to build new power stations afterwards and (back then we still had ample power) Eskom was thus unable to effectively plan for the future. The current mess we are in is not totally not Eskom's fault, but the government still did not listen to some of the people at Eskom who pushed the issue of "we need more power stations".
You guys should actually be glad that Eskom got the loan. Not saying anything, but one day you'll realise it is for the best.
Good joke.
His reason was correct. It was to give other companies a chance. Problem is, as stated, the profit margin is not sustainable for another provider. The government still did not allow Eskom to build new power stations afterwards and (back then we still had ample power) Eskom was thus unable to effectively plan for the future. The current mess we are in is not totally not Eskom's fault, but the government still did not listen to some of the people at Eskom who pushed the issue of "we need more power stations".
You guys should actually be glad that Eskom got the loan. Not saying anything, but one day you'll realise it is for the best.
This is true - Eskom approached the government in the late 90s asking permission to build more stations, which was denied in order to allow IPPs to enter the market. They also claimed that Eskom's assumptions about the country's growth were unrealistic. The IPPs never materialised and the growth was even bigger than what Eskom had predicted - by the time the government sorted out their act, Eskom's growth was about 5 years behind the growth that was needed to supply the country properly. As it is, we regularly enter peaking territory and it will get worse as the weather gets colder.
If the world bank had blocked this loan for some reason, it would have absolutely crippled the economy. Even if they had said "we'll give you the money if you spend it on green power", planning a power station and negotiating the contracts to build takes years. By the time they had a 'green' plan to present for a loan, we'd be in a energy crisis worse than the one in 2007.
FlatspinZA
Expert Member
I don't know how true this is, I got it from the comments section on Times Live.
HamburgerDave said:
"Did you know that E-on a German power company offered to build the most modern green coal power station in the world in SA, the condition would be that they run it. The state turned them down. The technology would be ground breaking and all this would not cost SA a cent to build. But Eskom does not want any competition. "
HamburgerDave said:
"Did you know that E-on a German power company offered to build the most modern green coal power station in the world in SA, the condition would be that they run it. The state turned them down. The technology would be ground breaking and all this would not cost SA a cent to build. But Eskom does not want any competition. "
I'm pretty sure coal is black
Seriously though, what's the timeline on that article? The government's stance on IPPs has bounced back and forth a couple of times in the last 10 years. And there's a big difference between the state and Eskom. I've never gotten the impression that Eskom is against having competition (then again, I dont work at a level where people would decide that sort of thing), and once the demand on the grid starts to regularly exceed capacity, they'll actually lose money if there's noone to pick up the slack.
The big problem with building stations and IPPs is that they just take so damn long to build, you have to plan for what will happen in 10-20 years time.