PhD graduate can't find work

[cguy]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/20/compsci_degrees_not_landing_lucrative_jobs/

The article doesn't appear to link to the source survey at all, so it's unclear what they are actually measuring. I also can't seem to find the source survey inn Stack Overflow either. They do link to a Stack Overflow salary calculator though, and according to that I would expect to be making 102k pounds/year, which is a lot more than the article's 42k/y number which is stated without source.

I can also say for a fact, that I would make much more than 102k/year. Apart from the usual reluctance of high earners to fill in salary surveys, I expect that the downward bias is because stackovefow becomes less useful as one's daily questions become more domain specific, more IP sensitive and and more mathematical/statistical in nature. I.e., those more likely to fill in the survey, are those who use StackOverflow more.

 

[cguy]

As a PhD grad, please share your experiences

Basically, I have yet to meet an Engineering or CS PhD who hasn't been able to get a great job. I've also seen that it is a huge benefit for inter country mobility, and is often a requirement to access the best positions in one's field.

I don't know who these people are who need to get jobs that in no way require PhDs at NarrowBandFtw's company. It could be that these degrees are now being handed out for all sorts of "soft" topics, or that like in the person in the OP's case, they don't actually have a PhD, but the rest of the world just doesn't know the difference.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Intend to agree with you cguy... The PhD works wonders inter country mobility, but inside SA it's a different story except in very specific industries...

We as a nation do not give the recognition due to a PhD graduate in my opinion

 

[TooFastTim]

Intend to agree with you cguy... The PhD works wonders inter country mobility, but inside SA it's a different story except in very specific industries...

We as a nation do not give the recognition due to a PhD graduate in my opinion

There was an article about this recently on one of the Saffie sites that agrees with your synopsis.

 

[cguy]

Intend to agree with you cguy... The PhD works wonders inter country mobility, but inside SA it's a different story except in very specific industries...

We as a nation do not give the recognition due to a PhD graduate in my opinion

Yup. For my own personal career, I was doing very nicely in SA as a new PhD (R400k+/y, in early 2000's), but it was still pretty small scale in comparison to what was available overseas (not just in terms of salary, but also in terms of interest, impact, exposure, etc.)

 

[ponder]

Do you have to list the PhD on your CV, why not just list up to a Masters for example?

 

[cguy]

Do you have to list the PhD on your CV, why not just list up to a Masters for example?

That is very unlikely to be beneficial.

 

[ponder]

That is very unlikely to be beneficial.

In what way?

If seeing a phd on a guys cv becomes an obstacle to employment then why not remove it only showing his masters if that is considered more employable? It's not fraud as he actually has the masters qualification.

 

[cguy]

In what way?

If seeing a phd on a guys cv becomes an obstacle to employment then why not remove it only showing his masters if that is considered more employable? It's not fraud as he actually has the masters qualification.

It's unlikely that it is ever an obstacle to employment. I agree with your other points though.

 

[Oppiekoffie]

Maybe that's true for engineering, but in IT a PhD means absolutely nothing to the vast majority of employers. I actually feel sorry for some of the PhD grads I've interviewed over the years when I see that reality setting in: you've just wasted years of your life and lots of money to boot for zero benefit.

Wonder if its once you start working, your chances of studying for a PhD is slim, unless you get into a 8-5 IT position allowing you to study. IT is ridden with lots of overtime. How people do overtime, and study. Just studying while working is hard, in IT its harder.

 

[konfab]

Intend to agree with you cguy... The PhD works wonders inter country mobility, but inside SA it's a different story except in very specific industries...

We as a nation do not give the recognition due to a PhD graduate in my opinion

I would disagree.
Firstly PhDs are primarily a qualification for academics, in that regard, you would battle to do well in academia without one in this country so I think they get the recognition they deserve in academia. But that is academia, not the real world.

Where I think the problem lies is with people who get their PhDs without any work or real world experience, then expect the topic of their PhD to be applicable to the real world. A masters degree can set you up very nicely with a lot of the theoretical skills needed in the real world. After that, if you see a good topic for a PhD, then you can start considering it. Also as I said before, it depends where you get your PhD as well.

 

[Lupus]

Inclusive doesn't mean preference to other groups, it means exactly what the term means. You cannot have 6 million South Africans carrying the economy as we have now when you can have 25 million. It really is logical.

Yes and in order for the 25 million to get jobs, things like BEE and AA need to be dropped and a proper free market needs to happen. A lot of small businesses are stifled under red tape and having to be 51% owned by an AA partner and and and. There is so much red tape in starting businesses most people don't. If they could get off the ground properly they could employ people, who then could spend more money and the cycle goes on and on.
Education also needs to be drastically fixed up, we need academic and trade schools, cause lets face it not everyone can get through academic work and society still needs plumbers, electricians and and. The biggest issue I think countries that insist on varsity degrees are going to see is a massive need for menial labour soon, and those guys are going to be coining it.
Already I can see electricians, plumbers and various other more hands on trades earning more than my white collared job.

 

[Oppiekoffie]

Yes and in order for the 25 million to get jobs, things like BEE and AA need to be dropped and a proper free market needs to happen. A lot of small businesses are stifled under red tape and having to be 51% owned by an AA partner and and and. There is so much red tape in starting businesses most people don't. If they could get off the ground properly they could employ people, who then could spend more money and the cycle goes on and on.
Education also needs to be drastically fixed up, we need academic and trade schools, cause lets face it not everyone can get through academic work and society still needs plumbers, electricians and and. The biggest issue I think countries that insist on varsity degrees are going to see is a massive need for menial labour soon, and those guys are going to be coining it.
Already I can see electricians, plumbers and various other more hands on trades earning more than my white collared job.

Unfortunately the ANC is shyte scared to include the white man, because they fear the white man will make the country better than they'll ever do. Thats why the economy will go down the drain further. Just another African country.

 

[cguy]

I would disagree.
Firstly PhDs are primarily a qualification for academics, in that regard, you would battle to do well in academia without one in this country so I think they get the recognition they deserve in academia. But that is academia, not the real world.

Where I think the problem lies is with people who get their PhDs without any work or real world experience, then expect the topic of their PhD to be applicable to the real world. A masters degree can set you up very nicely with a lot of the theoretical skills needed in the real world. After that, if you see a good topic for a PhD, then you can start considering it. Also as I said before, it depends where you get your PhD as well.

On the first point, a PhD is not primarily a qualification for academics. It is a qualification for research. Research is a key function of universities, but also an enormous component of industry. A lot more research is done in industry than academia, although it isn't always publically disseminated.

On the second point, it's great if one's topic is directly applicable to one's job, but one doesn't generally employ a PhD graduate for that. They're employed for their relatively broad knowledge of their subject, their ability to read and understand academic papers, their ability to follow proper research procedures, and the creative spark to solve an unsolved problem, or to build something new on top of whatever has been done thus far. Usually the above can just be summarized as "can solve hard problems".

 

[ToxicBunny]

I would disagree.
Firstly PhDs are primarily a qualification for academics, in that regard, you would battle to do well in academia without one in this country so I think they get the recognition they deserve in academia. But that is academia, not the real world.

Where I think the problem lies is with people who get their PhDs without any work or real world experience, then expect the topic of their PhD to be applicable to the real world. A masters degree can set you up very nicely with a lot of the theoretical skills needed in the real world. After that, if you see a good topic for a PhD, then you can start considering it. Also as I said before, it depends where you get your PhD as well.

Hardly, more research is done in the "real world" than in academia. So yes the PhD gets recognition in academia, but that is not what I was referring to at all. If you are talking in the real world there is very little recognition for PhD's, and even at times an amount of derision for wasting so much of their lives on studying.

 

[konfab]

If you are talking in the real world there is very little recognition for PhD's, and even at times an amount of derision for wasting so much of their lives on studying.

There is recognition if the PhD work is relevant to the real world work. This is statistically unlikely since PhDs are so specialised.

 

[saturnz]

There is recognition if the PhD work is relevant to the real world work. This is statistically unlikely since PhDs are so specialised.

being able to complete a Phd implies many things besides the knowledge you acquire as cguy has already mentioned, infact the knowledge you acquire is not that important.

as for your real world comments

I graduated with a masters in economics, went straight into an executive environment and left it 7 years later. I've been living in the real world with only that as my work experience and I'm doing fine I would like to think, despite having forgotten all the jacobians and partial derivatives in solving general models.

 

[cguy]

There is recognition if the PhD work is relevant to the real world work. This is statistically unlikely since PhDs are so specialised.

As I said before, that's just plain wrong. Every single PhD in my team is working on a different topic from which we got our PhDs in. This is true over the vast majority of the industry. They want people who can approach problems with the depth one gets from a research perspective, not people with highly specific knowledge.

 

[R13...]

As I said before, that's just plain wrong. Every single PhD in my team is working on a different topic from which we got our PhDs in. This is true over the vast majority of the industry. They want people who can approach problems with the depth one gets from a research perspective, not people with highly specific knowledge.

True that's why a lot of them are sought after in management consultancy

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

There is recognition if the PhD work is relevant to the real world work. This is statistically unlikely since PhDs are so specialised.
View attachment 465055

Is there a variation of that graphic catering for humanities PhDs e.g. PhD in Gender Studies? Where you can study and keep pushing all your life, but your focus is bullcrap and you will not expand human knowledge AT ALL, if anything you're making the world a dumber place