LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Which demand is reasonable to you?
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Pilots' strike grounds Lufthansa
- Thread starter LazyLion
- Start date
Which demand is reasonable to you?
I think the demand that is being seen as reasonable is stopping the airline from increasing the retirement age.
The irresponsibility of the company that is aggressively pursuing the retirement age increase is not mentioned where it really should be!
Strikes may be terrible and are extremely detrimental to our economy but sadly at this point in time some companies only listen to strikes. Of course, this all came about because strikes became a common thing. The double edged sword strikes again. Mass strikes now affecting the parts of society you really don't want to see them in.
The irresponsibility of the company that is aggressively pursuing the retirement age increase is not mentioned where it really should be!
Strikes may be terrible and are extremely detrimental to our economy but sadly at this point in time some companies only listen to strikes. Of course, this all came about because strikes became a common thing. The double edged sword strikes again. Mass strikes now affecting the parts of society you really don't want to see them in.
Keeping the retirement age where it has been all along.
Dave
Honorary Master
That's one of the reasons for the strike, the airline want to push the retirement age UP beyond 55, the pilots don't want to, as they think it's a safety issue to force pilots to fly beyond that agreed age.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Um no... You and I agree with the safety issue... but you can bet the only reason why the pilots like the idea of retiring at 55 is an issue of laziness.
Who wants to work beyond 55 when you can just retire and be paid out.
But as I mentioned earlier, their pensions are nearly worthless now as they can't buy a living on the the value of the Euro as opposed to food prices.
Dave
Honorary Master
You keep saying it, but is has little meaning or truth, you don't seem to be all that knowledgable or clued up with European economics, in the case in question, Lufthansa is in Germany, and the German economy isn't doing that badly and the idea that a final value scheme pension is nearly "worthless" is ludicrous. The pilots want to retire, they can live quite happily on their current pension.
I really don't see where you even get the idea that the € is so worthless compared to food prices, unlike other regions of the world Germany is seeing inflation around 1.5%, and while some foodstuffs have increased, it's still fairly easy to live reasonably well on the average salary, and an airline pilot earns a lot more than an average salary (co-pilots start around €60k pa, even a €60k salary on a final salary scheme would give a pension of around €37k pa by BA's calculator and would probably be doubled for a Captain at retirement).
Don't believe everything you see and read in all your press releases...
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Oh yes, it is improving, and it has always been the economic powerhouse of Europe, but it is also struggling under the weight of the Euro.
Article posted 14 hours ago....
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-wins-pay-deal-as-industry-frets-over-outlook
AlphaBravo
Expert Member
Anyone that connected a flight through Frankfurt will be stunned by the impact this will have on all travellers around the world. A major connection hub now stranded for three days. Boy, AMCU got no leverage compared to these pilots.
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Dave
Honorary Master
Yes, there have been some tough economic times, but Germany has done quite well, I also don't get how your linked article equates to a pilots € pension leaving them unable to buy food and having to work beyond agreed retirement age (something you seem to be continually missing in this exchange), the pilots are striking to be allowed to retire as agreed and not continue working as the airline is trying to force them to.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Here you go.... maybe we should just start at the beginning for you...
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-euro-debt-crisis-and-its-impact-on-the-world.html
Dave
Honorary Master
That link has your name on it. So it's of little use to me (who happens to live in Europe and who happens to do work for a multinational with a large German footprint). Suffice to say, the German economy is doing well, a hell of a lot better than many other places, including SA which seems to be your only area of expertise.
I can't be bothered to find a suitable report for super dummies, so wiki will have to do.
PS None of this has anything to do with your idiotic assertion at an airline pilot can't afford to retire in Germany because their € pensions are worthless and they can't afford to buy food.
You need to find a book called "German economy for the super Dummy" it might help, again I'll say, stop believing every single press release you scout the internet for and post here.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
lol... pretty much every politician in Germany is condemning the strike, but here we have one slavering, knee jerk patriot who thinks they are all wrong because he knows better than all of them.
We'll just leave it at that then.
We'll just leave it at that then.
Dave
Honorary Master
Of course the strike will be condemned, the government don't want it, passengers don't want it, but the pilots feel the need to strike as they are entitled to, and they probably feel the government and passengers will exert pressure on the company to try and resolve the issues the pilots are aggrieved by.
But at least we are back to discussing the strike
.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
LUFTHANSA FLIGHTS TO RETURN TO NORMAL SATURDAY: CEO
German airline Lufthansa, which is currently battling the biggest strike in its history, expects normal services to be up and running on Saturday, its chief executive said.
"Our aim is to be back to normal operations on Saturday," CEO Christoph Franz told the mass-circulation daily Bild in an interview published Thursday.
However, "in isolated cases, there could still be a few anomalies for operational reasons," he added.
Germany's biggest airline has cancelled most of its flights until Friday as a result of a three-day walkout by its pilots, who are demanding better pay and retirement conditions.
Some 3,800 flights have been cancelled in all between Wednesday and Friday, leaving as many as 425,000 passengers stranded.
Franz said he hoped management and the Cockpit pilots' union "can resume talks quickly and come to a compromise that it is acceptable for both sides".
Lufthansa's head of operations, Werner Knorr, had said on Wednesday that there would be no new talks while the strike is ongoing.
Franz reiterated the company's estimate that the industrial action would cost "double-digit millions" (or tens of millions) of euros in profit.
"But we won't be able to give a more concrete figure until after the strike is over," he said.
In a bid to avert chaos, Lufthansa has been keeping passengers up to date about flight changes via text message or email and offering to re-book them onto other airlines.
The situation at Frankfurt airport, the country's largest, has remained calm so far, with few queues evident at check-in terminals. And those flights that were operating were proceeding normally.
The pilots are protesting against Lufthansa's plans to push back the age at which pilots are able to take early retirement from 55 at present to 60 by 2017.
They are also seeking wage increases.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mjs
Date : 03 Apr 2014 11:01
German airline Lufthansa, which is currently battling the biggest strike in its history, expects normal services to be up and running on Saturday, its chief executive said.
"Our aim is to be back to normal operations on Saturday," CEO Christoph Franz told the mass-circulation daily Bild in an interview published Thursday.
However, "in isolated cases, there could still be a few anomalies for operational reasons," he added.
Germany's biggest airline has cancelled most of its flights until Friday as a result of a three-day walkout by its pilots, who are demanding better pay and retirement conditions.
Some 3,800 flights have been cancelled in all between Wednesday and Friday, leaving as many as 425,000 passengers stranded.
Franz said he hoped management and the Cockpit pilots' union "can resume talks quickly and come to a compromise that it is acceptable for both sides".
Lufthansa's head of operations, Werner Knorr, had said on Wednesday that there would be no new talks while the strike is ongoing.
Franz reiterated the company's estimate that the industrial action would cost "double-digit millions" (or tens of millions) of euros in profit.
"But we won't be able to give a more concrete figure until after the strike is over," he said.
In a bid to avert chaos, Lufthansa has been keeping passengers up to date about flight changes via text message or email and offering to re-book them onto other airlines.
The situation at Frankfurt airport, the country's largest, has remained calm so far, with few queues evident at check-in terminals. And those flights that were operating were proceeding normally.
The pilots are protesting against Lufthansa's plans to push back the age at which pilots are able to take early retirement from 55 at present to 60 by 2017.
They are also seeking wage increases.
Source : Sapa-AFP /mjs
Date : 03 Apr 2014 11:01
Friend of mine is a pilot with Air Berlin.
The Lufthansa pilots get almost double the other airline pilots get on average, and yet they keep on striking, almost every year for higher pay, and better benefits.
The Lufthansa pilots get almost double the other airline pilots get on average, and yet they keep on striking, almost every year for higher pay, and better benefits.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
LUFTHANSA CALLS FOR REFORM OF RIGHT TO STRIKE
The head of Lufthansa called for a reform of workers' right to strike Friday as the biggest strike in the airline's history entered its third and final day.
While Lufthansa chief executive Christoph Franz insisted that the right to strike was a constitutional right, "from our point of view, there must be a guarantee that critical infrastructure is kept up and running.
"And that includes railways and air traffic control," Franz told the business daily Handelsblatt in an interview.
Lufthansa's pilots have been on strike since Wednesday, grounding most of the airline's flights and leaving as many as 425,000 passengers without a connection.
Lufthansa cancelled around 3,800 flights on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday as a result of the walkout by pilots who are demanding better pay and retirement conditions.
While the walkout is expected to cost Lufthansa tens of millions of euros (dollars), no travel chaos has ensued because Lufthansa was able to warn passengers in advance and help them make alternative travel arrangements.
The strike has come under heavy fire from politicians and industry, but a poll by ARD public television showed that the majority of Germans supported the pilots' industrial action.
As many as 55 percent of those surveyed said they understood the pilots' position versus 42 percent against, the poll found.
Nevertheless, the level of support is still much lower than two years ago when 75 percent of Germans said they understood a strike by cabin staff.
Lufthansa CEO Franz has said he expects services to return to normal on Saturday, even if there might be a few isolated disruptions for operational reasons.
Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 04 Apr 2014 11:48
The head of Lufthansa called for a reform of workers' right to strike Friday as the biggest strike in the airline's history entered its third and final day.
While Lufthansa chief executive Christoph Franz insisted that the right to strike was a constitutional right, "from our point of view, there must be a guarantee that critical infrastructure is kept up and running.
"And that includes railways and air traffic control," Franz told the business daily Handelsblatt in an interview.
Lufthansa's pilots have been on strike since Wednesday, grounding most of the airline's flights and leaving as many as 425,000 passengers without a connection.
Lufthansa cancelled around 3,800 flights on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday as a result of the walkout by pilots who are demanding better pay and retirement conditions.
While the walkout is expected to cost Lufthansa tens of millions of euros (dollars), no travel chaos has ensued because Lufthansa was able to warn passengers in advance and help them make alternative travel arrangements.
The strike has come under heavy fire from politicians and industry, but a poll by ARD public television showed that the majority of Germans supported the pilots' industrial action.
As many as 55 percent of those surveyed said they understood the pilots' position versus 42 percent against, the poll found.
Nevertheless, the level of support is still much lower than two years ago when 75 percent of Germans said they understood a strike by cabin staff.
Lufthansa CEO Franz has said he expects services to return to normal on Saturday, even if there might be a few isolated disruptions for operational reasons.
Source : Sapa-AFP /kd
Date : 04 Apr 2014 11:48
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
LUFTHANSA REFUSES NEW OFFER AS STRIKE WINDS DOWN DPA
Lufthansa ruled out on Friday any concession to pilots, whose three-day strike to demand better pension benefits forced cancellation of 3,800 flights. The German flag carrier said it expected to resume flights quickly Saturday after the unionized pilots return to work at midnight (2200 GMT) Friday. Only about 190 pilots and 100 managers with pilot's licences defied the strike and flew during the stoppage. Lufthansa and its Germanwings budget subsidiary employ about 5,400 pilots. They are demanding the revival of a pensions deal that let them retire at will from age 55 on 60-per-cent pay. Kay Kratky, chief of passenger operations, told reporters in Frankfurt that a company offer to the union last week contained sufficient substance to sustain continuing negotiations. He repeated that the strike had cost the company tens of millions of euros and damaged customer confidence in the airline. "The effects of this strike are very damaging," he said, calling on the pilots' union to resume negotiations "within the next few days." In an unusual step for a German company, Lufthansa chief executive Christoph Franz appeared on a YouTube video just after the strike began to apologize in English for the stoppage, saying he wanted to "make the inconvenience as small as possible." Werner Knorr, a Lufthansa executive, said the airline would fly almost all its 1,800 scheduled flights Saturday despite the fact that many jets have been stranded away from the airports where they are needed. Mechanics would work overtime to get planes airborne quickly, he said. The airline says very few passengers have been stranded at its two biggest hubs, Frankfurt and Munich, because most were either rebooked or cancelled travel. The strike was announced in advance. The pilots have also demanded a 10-per-cent wage increase over two years. The airline has responded to the union's demands by offering a one-off plus a two-step increase of 5.16 per cent over five years. A poll for ARD television on Thursday showed 55 per cent of Germans sympathize with the pilots, whereas 42 per cent think the strike is wrong.
Source : Sapa-dpa /kd
Date : 04 Apr 2014 15:02
Lufthansa ruled out on Friday any concession to pilots, whose three-day strike to demand better pension benefits forced cancellation of 3,800 flights. The German flag carrier said it expected to resume flights quickly Saturday after the unionized pilots return to work at midnight (2200 GMT) Friday. Only about 190 pilots and 100 managers with pilot's licences defied the strike and flew during the stoppage. Lufthansa and its Germanwings budget subsidiary employ about 5,400 pilots. They are demanding the revival of a pensions deal that let them retire at will from age 55 on 60-per-cent pay. Kay Kratky, chief of passenger operations, told reporters in Frankfurt that a company offer to the union last week contained sufficient substance to sustain continuing negotiations. He repeated that the strike had cost the company tens of millions of euros and damaged customer confidence in the airline. "The effects of this strike are very damaging," he said, calling on the pilots' union to resume negotiations "within the next few days." In an unusual step for a German company, Lufthansa chief executive Christoph Franz appeared on a YouTube video just after the strike began to apologize in English for the stoppage, saying he wanted to "make the inconvenience as small as possible." Werner Knorr, a Lufthansa executive, said the airline would fly almost all its 1,800 scheduled flights Saturday despite the fact that many jets have been stranded away from the airports where they are needed. Mechanics would work overtime to get planes airborne quickly, he said. The airline says very few passengers have been stranded at its two biggest hubs, Frankfurt and Munich, because most were either rebooked or cancelled travel. The strike was announced in advance. The pilots have also demanded a 10-per-cent wage increase over two years. The airline has responded to the union's demands by offering a one-off plus a two-step increase of 5.16 per cent over five years. A poll for ARD television on Thursday showed 55 per cent of Germans sympathize with the pilots, whereas 42 per cent think the strike is wrong.
Source : Sapa-dpa /kd
Date : 04 Apr 2014 15:02
techead
Honorary Master
well this better get sorted out ASAP. Im flying Lufthansa in a months time!!!
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
LUFTHANSA CANCELS 1,350 FLIGHTS AS PILOTS STRIKE FOR NINTH TIME
Lufthansa plans to cancel about 1350 or half its scheduled flights over the next two days after the German airline's pilots launched their ninth strike this year over a new retirement scheme.
The airline said the nation-wide strike, which starts at noon (1100 GMT) on Monday, will hit about 150,000 passengers who were scheduled to travel on the carrier's short-, medium- and long-haul flights.
Cockpit, the union representing Lufthansa's 5400 pilots, said the strike will bring to a standstill all of the airline's short- and medium-haul flights until 23.59 (22.59 GMT) on Tuesday.
Pilots on long-haul flights will walk off the job at 3 am on Tuesday until 23.59 on Tuesday. Those flying Lufthansa Cargo aircraft will also strike from 3 am until 11.59 Tuesday.
Flights on Lufthansa budget offshoot Germanwings will not be affected.
Industrial action by pilots has knocked about 160 million euros (200 million dollars) off Lufthansa's operating profit, the airline said.
Talks between the airline and the pilots broke down Saturday as the two sides failed to reach an agreement on a new retirement scheme.
Lufthansa wants to raise the retirement age from 55 to 60.
The strike was in October. On-and-off labour stoppages since April have forced Lufthansa and its subsidiary airlines to cancel 6,000 flights.
The German railways, Deutsche Bahn, said it plans to add extra services to help Lufthansa passengers reach their destination.
Source : Sapa-dpa /mm
Date : 01 Dec 2014 14:01
Lufthansa plans to cancel about 1350 or half its scheduled flights over the next two days after the German airline's pilots launched their ninth strike this year over a new retirement scheme.
The airline said the nation-wide strike, which starts at noon (1100 GMT) on Monday, will hit about 150,000 passengers who were scheduled to travel on the carrier's short-, medium- and long-haul flights.
Cockpit, the union representing Lufthansa's 5400 pilots, said the strike will bring to a standstill all of the airline's short- and medium-haul flights until 23.59 (22.59 GMT) on Tuesday.
Pilots on long-haul flights will walk off the job at 3 am on Tuesday until 23.59 on Tuesday. Those flying Lufthansa Cargo aircraft will also strike from 3 am until 11.59 Tuesday.
Flights on Lufthansa budget offshoot Germanwings will not be affected.
Industrial action by pilots has knocked about 160 million euros (200 million dollars) off Lufthansa's operating profit, the airline said.
Talks between the airline and the pilots broke down Saturday as the two sides failed to reach an agreement on a new retirement scheme.
Lufthansa wants to raise the retirement age from 55 to 60.
The strike was in October. On-and-off labour stoppages since April have forced Lufthansa and its subsidiary airlines to cancel 6,000 flights.
The German railways, Deutsche Bahn, said it plans to add extra services to help Lufthansa passengers reach their destination.
Source : Sapa-dpa /mm
Date : 01 Dec 2014 14:01
It is the management that is endangering the company by not acceding to the demands of the employees.