Platinum mines not making money: Implats

[Mila]

Australia is a first-world country, South Africa is a third-world country. You cannot reasonably expect wage parity between the two nations.

They also use less labor and more Machinery. IIRC.
We also have a huge problem with unproductive staff.

 

[rza]

Are you just ignoring the 2 months they didn't work and didn't get paid for, and now have had to take out loans for at 25%+ interest rates just to survive.

At best they're in exactly the same financial position they were in prior to the strikes and raise, more than likely they're worse off.

That two months didn't only hurt the miners but it also hurt the management as well, which makes it easier to negotiate the next around, like now. Mining companies now know that miners can hold out for long in their demands, so they wont play a game of "who will flinch first". In a world of Labour Relations, what happened last year put the miners in a very strong position.

 

[MKFrost]

If a retired CEO earned 30% more than he did the previous year, then why can't the workers feel that they also deserve such an increase?

Big difference between giving one person 30% and giving 46,000 odd the same.

The problem these mining companies face is that workers are more smarter now......and they know that similar workers in overseas operations like Australia are earning way more than they are earning.

Maybe so... They should however stop comparing their earnings and start comparing their productivity. I'll venture a guess that the productivity in Ozz is close on double.

If that was the case here the mines would possibly be able to afford such wages.

 

[ToxicBunny]

That two months didn't only hurt the miners but it also hurt the management as well, which makes it easier to negotiate the next around, like now. Mining companies now know that miners can hold out for long in their demands, so they wont play a game of "who will flinch first". In a world of Labour Relations, what happened last year put the miners in a very strong position.

Ok, no...

Yes the mine lost money...

The miners didn't get PAID for 2 months of the year, so they instantly lost 17% of their annual salary... so even if they didn't take out loans, their "25%" increase would equate to a 8% increase... that 8% is now gobbled up by the ridiculous interest they have to pay on the short term loans they took out.

Oh, and no, the miners can't hold out for their demands, they're so far indebted that a few weeks without pay will financially ruin most of them this year.

 

[Mila]

As far as I know the unions signed a contract stating that they will not strike this year.

What can be done in this case?

 

[ToxicBunny]

As far as I know the unions signed a contract stating that they will not strike this year.

What can be done in this case?

Good question that..

 

[rza]

Maybe so... They should however stop comparing their earnings and start comparing their productivity. I'll venture a guess that the productivity in Ozz is close on double.

If that was the case here the mines would possibly be able to afford such wages.

Only Iron Ore mines are making money in Australia, and our Iron Ore mines (Kumba, etc) are making huge profits, so we are in the same boat. We are very good in mining as a country, definitely not inferior to the Aussies, but of course the perception of strikes are bad for the country. Apartheid really messed us up, especially in terms of economic disparity. Unfortunately it's gonna get worse before it gets better, and the miners will be the biggest beneficiaries.

 

[rza]

Ok, no...

Yes the mine lost money...

The miners didn't get PAID for 2 months of the year, so they instantly lost 17% of their annual salary... so even if they didn't take out loans, their "25%" increase would equate to a 8% increase... that 8% is now gobbled up by the ridiculous interest they have to pay on the short term loans they took out.

Oh, and no, the miners can't hold out for their demands, they're so far indebted that a few weeks without pay will financially ruin most of them this year.

Of course they are in debt, but eventually you pay off your debt and you are able to enjoy your 25% increase instead of an 8%. If they get 10% this year then it would have been a very good deal for them.

One thing we forget is that they were in debt even before they striked.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Of course they are in debt, but eventually you pay off your debt and you are able to enjoy your 25% increase instead of an 8%. If they get 10% this year then it would have been a very good deal for them.

One thing we forget is that they were in debt even before they striked.

They strike, year on year.. they NEVER dig themselves out of the debt hole... especially since the debt they get is usually from unscrupulous loan sharks at beyond legal interest rates.

 

[MKFrost]

Only Iron Ore mines are making money in Australia, and our Iron Ore mines (Kumba, etc) are making huge profits, so we are in the same boat. We are very good in mining as a country, definitely not inferior to the Aussies, but of course the perception of strikes are bad for the country. Apartheid really messed us up, especially in terms of economic disparity. Unfortunately it's gonna get worse before it gets better, and the miners will be the biggest beneficiaries.

Yes... The point I was trying to make is not about profitability and skill levels but rather that earnings has to be tied to productivity.

In this country this is a big no no as it will entail actual work in order to earn. Not saying mine workers do not work, just that there is no way you can get double digit increases while striking 20/25% of the time.

 

[Mila]

Only Iron Ore mines are making money in Australia, and our Iron Ore mines (Kumba, etc) are making huge profits, so we are in the same boat. We are very good in mining as a country, definitely not inferior to the Aussies, but of course the perception of strikes are bad for the country. Apartheid really messed us up, especially in terms of economic disparity. Unfortunately it's gonna get worse before it gets better, and the miners will be the biggest beneficiaries.

I Don't agree with you. We do business and has friends in WA in mining. But I do not have news articles to back me up.
not all miners will not be the biggest beneficiaries as mines will, the unions will be and the miners left after they have bankrupted more mines.


Yes it is platinum and they have a card to play, but mines will just turn to machines more.

 

[Archer]

They strike, year on year.. they NEVER dig themselves out of the debt hole... especially since the debt they get is usually from unscrupulous loan sharks at beyond legal interest rates.

Of which the top guys in the unions are quite often a part of... They have every reason to make sure strikes happen since thats how they make the big bucks

 

[rza]

Yes... The point I was trying to make is not about profitability and skill levels but rather that earnings has to be tied to productivity.

In this country this is a big no no as it will entail actual work in order to earn. Not saying mine workers do not work, just that there is no way you can get double digit increases while striking 20/25% of the time.

You have performance bonuses for that. A salary on the other hand should reflect your value and skill, and the only way to compare their value is by benchmarking, and the benchmark which is Australian or Chilean miners says they are underpaid. The unions know this, that's why they are not scared to make this ridiculous demands. This is a consequence of globalisation.

 

[agentrfr]

 

[rza]

I Don't agree with you. We do business and has friends in WA in mining. But I do not have news articles to back me up.
not all miners will not be the biggest beneficiaries as mines will, the unions will be and the miners left after they have bankrupted more mines.


Yes it is platinum and they have a card to play, but mines will just turn to machines more.

You are right. Mine managers always knew that mines have a life span, and miners know that now, so everybody is trying to cash in before it becomes too expensive to mine, especially for this underground mines.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Of which the top guys in the unions are quite often a part of... They have every reason to make sure strikes happen since thats how they make the big bucks

Of course.... I was leaving that out, it would have been a complication too far for rza

 

[Space_Chief]

"Brown, who stepped down as CEO at the end of June last year, remained a director of Impala for a further three months during which he was paid 16.8 million rand ($1.7 million) in salary, benefits and bonuses, the Johannesburg-based company said in its annual report posted on its website. Brown was paid 13.1 million rand during his last full year as CEO."

Nuff said.

Buuut if companies don't pay these MBAs such big salaries, bonuses and stock options, the talent will leave and they'll be much less profitable. So goes the argument. I think it can be true sometimes, but often it's overused and the whole board gives themselves bonuses to retain talent, why shouldn't they?

 

[Space_Chief]

A guy whose decisions affect a R80,638,930,904 company should get paid more than a guy who doesn't make decisions.

It's unlikely that only his decisions count. And it's not so likely that if he were paid a 1/3 of what he's paid he'd make worse decisions.

And surely if his company is failing he should be paid a negative salary?

 

[Seriously]

"Brown, who stepped down as CEO at the end of June last year, remained a director of Impala for a further three months during which he was paid 16.8 million rand ($1.7 million) in salary, benefits and bonuses, the Johannesburg-based company said in its annual report posted on its website. Brown was paid 13.1 million rand during his last full year as CEO."

Nuff said.

"Cough" Nkandla and Zuma bonuses?

Believing in Communism with an African mindset borders on a mental disease.

 

[DreamKing]

he should have big salary but not that big. People should consider he cannot do all jobs alone.