Platinum Strike Ends

ToxicBunny said:
That too.

For all we know, he was NETT'ing R10000 per month, but because of all his strikes etc over those 14 years, he had loans up to the hilt and half of his salary was disappearing to garnishee orders.

So I will retract my above mentioned 4 different ways, and make it at least 5 different ways, if not more.
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How much do you want to bet me that your scenario is the furthest thing from the truth you could possibly get?
 
joelus said:
How much do you want to bet me that your scenario is the furthest thing from the truth you could possibly get?
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http://www.wbsjournal.co.za/articles/garnishee-orders-impact-on-labour-issues-1287.html
Investigations after the Marikana massacre in August 2012, in which 37 miners were gunned down by the police, found high levels of debt and garnishee orders were one of the catalysts behind the strikes.

“Garnishee orders are a big problem among miners,” says Seshoka. “Workers are given loans... These loans are available throughout Rustenburg area.

“The mineworkers are generally migrants – people from the Eastern Cape – who come to Rustenburg. Many of the workers move into shacks and will live with a woman.”

Seshoka says mineworkers are tempted into taking the loans by “loan sharks”, who convince them that credit records aren’t important. Eventually, the miner will be taking home R300 a month and will be trapped in an abyss of debt.
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http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-financial/platinum-miner-repays-r11690-on-r1000-loan
JOHANNESBURG - Debt-collection attorneys are grossly over-charging miners on the Rustenburg platinum belt.

The miners’ spiralling debt problems could be one of the catalysts for the strikes at Lonmin’s Marikana mine.

Attorney statements related to the issuing of garnishee orders against miners have revealed instances where lawyers have charged more than double the initial loan amount in legal fees.

In extreme cases workers have been charged fees in excess of ten times the original amount lent.

Combined with interest and other charges, this has led to instances where workers have been invoiced for amounts three to 15 times the initial loan amount to clear their debt.
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I put it to you that that scenario is uncomfortably close to the truth.
 
Paul_S said:
Personally I think that the "right to strike" should be scrapped altogether.
If you don't like a job then you have "the right to resign".
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If you think that it should be scrapped then you probably do the kind of work where you can make demands, and you also effectively believe that lower skilled workers are commodities to bought and sold on the open market like cattle. Unions came into existence and gained legal protection because the scenario you propose resulted in rampant abuse of power by companies. Now of course unions too quite often run amok. Although as we can see employers still hold significant power.

A strike however is effectively a temporary resignation. No-one else would take up those jobs and once a deal was made the only people the company could hire would be those who had 'resigned'.

Ancalagon said:
The sad reality is that no one wins here. The mining houses lost big time. The workers lost big time, and their increased wages will take a long time to offset that loss, especially when inflation is considered. And now the mining houses have a much stronger reason to look at mechanization, if they were not convinced before.

I wish that the workers would form a group that is really in the WORKERS interests and not in the unions interest.
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The companies have looked at mechanization and there was talk of newer mining operations going that route, but it is prohibitively expensive to convert existing mines. They're paying the workers and making wage deals because it is the cheaper option. The more likely scenario is that mines get closed if workers become too expensive.

Unions just like governments require leaders who are in it for the benefit of others and to look out for their interests. That's captured in the term public servant. Unfortunately leadership positions will often attract the worst people who have no sense of the real needs of those who are effectively in their care.

joelus said:
While the the miners didn't get R12500 accross the board for all miners, they got a much better deal than was originally offered and a better deal than miners have ever got before. I heard on 702 this morning, a miner who has been working for them for 14 years and his wage was R5700. I mean wtf? After this deal his wage is going up to R7700 (or something like that) and at the end of three years it will be around R10,500 so this was definitely good for them.
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It's hard to tell whether this will be the case. The article only gives the example of the lowest paid workers. I however have no doubt the mining companies have been paying very little to date. Their background is in massive abuse of their workforce.
 
Sinbad said:
http://www.wbsjournal.co.za/articles/garnishee-orders-impact-on-labour-issues-1287.html


http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-financial/platinum-miner-repays-r11690-on-r1000-loan


I put it to you that that scenario is uncomfortably close to the truth.
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I'm not saying they aren't debt ridden, that's why I call them wage slaves, because their wages don't even cover the cost of living, but if you think they were actually 'NETT'ing R10000 per month' as ToxicBunny suggested is absurd
 
ponder said:
And how many of those loan shark operations are run by union bosses? :whistle:
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Would love to know that ... I'm sure it's not an insignificant number. Either that or there're some serious profit-share/kickbacks going on.
 
joelus said:
I'm not saying they aren't debt ridden, that's why I call them wage slaves, because their wages don't even cover the cost of living, but if you think they were actually 'NETT'ing R10000 per month' as ToxicBunny suggested is absurd
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It's all conjecture at this stage. When you take allowances, overtime, shift pay into account it's not infeasible to nett R10k before additional deductions
 
joelus said:
I'm not saying they aren't debt ridden, that's why I call them wage slaves, because their wages don't even cover the cost of living, but if you think they were actually 'NETT'ing R10000 per month' as ToxicBunny suggested is absurd
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Taking into account all the additional allowances, which equal maybe R3000 or more, its very plausible for them to be getting to that value.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Taking into account all the additional allowances, which equal maybe R3000 or more, its very plausible for them to be getting to that value.
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Allowances aren't part of their wages. We're talking about what they get paid. Netting R10000 as you put it does not include allowances. Do you even know what allowances they had, that you can say they equal maybe R3000 or more, or was that just a thumbsuck?
 
Ok, let me explain my point of view.

Nett is the money that gets put into your bank account, and I can guarantee you that these miners don't go "Oh I earn X, but I get Y allowances over and above that". They just know the amount of money put into their bank account.

In terms of allowances, they get shift pay, overtime pay, housing allowances. Those are at a minimum, and there are others.
 
joelus said:
Allowances aren't part of their wages. We're talking about what they get paid. Netting R10000 as you put it does not include allowances. Do you even know what allowances they had, that you can say they equal maybe R3000 or more, or was that just a thumbsuck?
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Yes it does, actually. Your nett is your nett. What you take home.
Do you even know their allowances, that you can say they are less than R3000 or is your thumb as productive as mine?

Underground artisan riggers in rustenburg earn R200-300k pa.
Shift supervisors R400k pa
None of which is particularly senior... So it's not like the mines pay peanuts.
I'm seeing allowances like the following for an underground electrician job:
area allowance R3 466.00, 45HR allowance R2 916.00, mine bonus R7 800.00, underground allowance
Housing allowances in marikana are > R1800 if you don't live in mine accommodation...


Implats paid a basic wage bill of R1.12bn for its entry-level workers, and all the extras such as pension, medical aid, overtime, bonuses and living-out allowances brought the total labour cost for that category of workers to R2.25bn in the last six months of last year.
 
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TJ99 said:
Metalwekkas are apparently already striking from the 1st of July, unless their ludicrous demands are met.
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Yep, our side next...

Already getting ready for evidence (damage or violence will result in identification and criminal charges or other).
 
AstroTurf said:
Yep, our side next...

Already getting ready for evidence (damage or violence will result in identification and criminal charges or other).
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Yeah, was at a manufacturer earlier this week and they were already gearing up for the strike.
 
joelus said:
To be earning R5700 after working for a company for 14 years is beyond shameful actually, especially an industry that makes billions in profits for it's shareholders.
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It has to make billions in profits for it's shareholders, otherwise it's shareholders would shut the mine down. Then there would be no jobs at all for the workers.
 
atomcrusher said:
It has to make billions in profits for it's shareholders, otherwise it's shareholders would shut the mine down. Then there would be no jobs at all for the workers.
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He's a communist, just ignore him!
 
atomcrusher said:
It has to make billions in profits for it's shareholders, otherwise it's shareholders would shut the mine down. Then there would be no jobs at all for the workers.
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Don't come here with your capitalist tendencies.
 
Sinbad said:
Yes it does, actually. Your nett is your nett. What you take home.
Do you even know their allowances, that you can say they are less than R3000 or is your thumb as productive as mine?

Underground artisan riggers in rustenburg earn R200-300k pa.
Shift supervisors R400k pa
None of which is particularly senior... So it's not like the mines pay peanuts.
I'm seeing allowances like the following for an underground electrician job:
area allowance R3 466.00, 45HR allowance R2 916.00, mine bonus R7 800.00, underground allowance
Housing allowances in marikana are > R1800 if you don't live in mine accommodation...


Implats paid a basic wage bill of R1.12bn for its entry-level workers, and all the extras such as pension, medical aid, overtime, bonuses and living-out allowances brought the total labour cost for that category of workers to R2.25bn in the last six months of last year.
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Please explain to me why the pick axe wielders can't become artisans?

Artisans require no high school diploma or national certificate. They just need to study a bit. Artisans work damn hard for what they earn and they do crucial work. Artisans are in global demand and thus their salaries (Shortage of skill). They should develop themselves. But they would much rather sit on a hill and cry for more money.

The sense of entitlement in SA mines are beyond comprehension...
 
Although miners earn a basic salary, when targets are met they can earn up to r17 000 a month. This was before the wage increase.
 
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