Project managers everywhere

So interesting that 4 pages and no mention of project financials.... PMs really are clueless when it comes to budgeting and forecasting.
 
reactor_sa said:
So interesting that 4 pages and no mention of project financials.... PMs really are clueless when it comes to budgeting and forecasting.
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There's a PM I worked with at one of the banks that double as a scrum master. The teams would size a story and he'd say stuff like "Come on guys, this isn't that difficult, it's only a 3" and the bitch when the work takes longer. That and the fact that he coupled story points to his budget didn't help. At one meeting when he went on about a story's size I told him to make it whatever he needs it to be for his financials to work.

Enterprise departments work like government departments wrt budget - if you don't blow it all you won't get more budget next year. You HAVE to spend the money.
 
Hamster said:
There's a PM I worked with at one of the banks that double as a scrum master. The teams would size a story and he'd say stuff like "Come on guys, this isn't that difficult, it's only a 3" and the bitch when the work takes longer. That and the fact that he coupled story points to his budget didn't help. At one meeting when he went on about a story's size I told him to make it whatever he needs it to be for his financials to work.

Enterprise departments work like government departments wrt budget - if you don't blow it all you won't get more budget next year. You HAVE to spend the money.
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Lol, you too funny. Project budgets don't work like that, it's not like a department budget. Can you imagine if it was like that? If you don't use all the budget in the first year, we cut it in year 2?? Haha

And as someone in banking I can tell you project financials are more complicated than a simple budget. Is the project expensed or capitalised? Are the benefits greater than the cost? What's the burn rate? Percent complete? Value-add initiative or compliance?
I recommend a book called Management and cost accounting by Collin Drury, much of the principal's there are applied in project finance.

PMs are generally financially challenged. I say generally because the interpretation of a what a PM is and does, differs greatly between organisations/countries/industries/and so on.
 
/cries a little inside

I use to work in the automotive industry. You can't tell me about PM's.
 
reactor_sa said:
Lol, you too funny. Project budgets don't work like that, it's not like a department budget. Can you imagine if it was like that? If you don't use all the budget in the first year, we cut it in year 2?? Haha

And as someone in banking I can tell you project financials are more complicated than a simple budget. Is the project expensed or capitalised? Are the benefits greater than the cost? What's the burn rate? Percent complete? Value-add initiative or compliance?
I recommend a book called Management and cost accounting by Collin Drury, much of the principal's there are applied in project finance.

PMs are generally financially challenged. I say generally because the interpretation of a what a PM is and does, differs greatly between organisations/countries/industries/and so on.
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Hey man, I'm just telling you what I saw. And this specific department got their budget cut by 12% with an additional amount over and above that.

Go watch what happens come late November. Either a crazy amount of work is suddenly scheduled or the end year functions/parties are scaled down or cancelled.
 
CamiKaze said:
I wanted to start a separate thread for this.
Was wondering what value it adds to a Developer or for someone that really wants to stick close to the technical side of things for as long as possible.

I'm thinking of doing it next year at GIBS.
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Writing my assessment hoping to tackle it at Wits over the next two years. Then head on out across the waters.
 
In addition to the all the project managers at our work, we have programme managers, release managers, application managers, application portfolio managers and line managers.
 
cooller said:
In addition to the all the project managers at our work, we have programme managers, release managers, application managers, application portfolio managers and line managers.
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But the worst are project managers and project assistants. Like what the flip is project assistant???
 
reactor_sa said:
But the worst are project managers and project assistants. Like what the flip is project assistant???
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I've come across this role as well, and a Requirements Analyst.
What's that? A cross between a Business Analyst and Systems Analyst?
 
I can understand the hate for IT PMs, many of them are transplanted from outside of the industry and that can be, uh, difficult.

But why do you hate BAs?

They deal with the business on your behalf, should take about 90% of the documentation off of your hands and also share accountability for deliverables with developers.

I can understand if they are BAs that have come in at the top of the industry without having worked their way up since that will equate to a lack of experience but aside from that, as devs why wouldn't they be your besties? They do all the kark you hate having to do...
 
SlinkyMike said:
I can understand the hate for IT PMs, many of them are transplanted from outside of the industry and that can be, uh, difficult.

But why do you hate BAs?

They deal with the business on your behalf, should take about 90% of the documentation off of your hands and also share accountability for deliverables with developers.

I can understand if they are BAs that have come in at the top of the industry without having worked their way up since that will equate to a lack of experience but aside from that, as devs why wouldn't they be your besties? They do all the kark you hate having to do...
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Like anyone, you get good BAs and bad ones. Good BAs are difficult to find and they're worth their weight in gold. Everyone else is either there because they think it pays well, or they want to use it as a stepping stone to management. I've seen some really shocking, vague requirements, which makes you feel like you may as well go to business yourself...
 
creeper said:
The discipline of a Project manager has incredible value and, if used correctly, increase the probability of a project success. However, the problem arises that not everyone that does a PMBOK or PRINCE2 makes good project managers. Most of the time, they follow a formulas instead of understanding the principles of good project management. I've worked with good PM's, and bad PM's. The good ones tend to be more focused on delivering and removing obstacles than do meetings and charts.
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That's the irony though, isn't it? Many of them spend too much time managing the project management process and not enough time actually letting people get down to business and monitoring the vitals.
 
@ OP

Depends on the situation. This is quite the normal life for me (I'm not the PM though) as the company I work for deals with a lot of outsourcing, so each partner dealing with their own internal processes will assign their own PM which will result in a lot of PM's in the mix. However what should happen is that one of those PM's should ideally have the ultimate objective and schedule under his/her control/responsibility while the others are really only there for resourcing, scheduling, procedure and reporting back via their respective teams/responsibilities.

Also it is sometimes the business who doesn't allow schedule slippage and the poor PM has no choice but to comply with the unreasonable deadlines while sticking to procedures. And before anyone criticizes this it often involves critical financial or service losses if the PM doesn't comply so it isn't easy to negotiate out of or say no - so they just have to put their head down and do it or risk severe business impact.

Finally I've seldom ever seen a technical guy have any incentive to get a project done or take proactive scheduling measures with other teams. They usually stick to their work/disciplines and screw the rest or they sit back and wait for detailed scope to show up on their laps (Or cry that they don't know wtf is going on), so the PM has to mediate between all these teams else it will most certainly fail. And of course someone needs to report back to business and do all the admin stuff there as well - and again the technical guy wouldn't bother with this unless they're a "de-facto" PM.

Anyway I need more info on your case before making a judgement call :)
 
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CamiKaze said:
I've come across this role as well, and a Requirements Analyst.
What's that? A cross between a Business Analyst and Systems Analyst?
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Closest I can think of is they're part of the engagement side of things in a business where not all engagement is necessarily a project. So they understand the customer's requirements, interpret that into technical objectives and decide whether or not it should be a project or be diverted to a technical resource. They then kick off the necessary process at the first gate and hand it off. It would be particularly for things that are not operational activities or that the customers don't really know who to go to. It really is only meant for very large companies where any particular manager cannot undertake this activity due to an overlap of responsibilities/regions etc... (In case you were wondering why the IT Manager doesn't do this)
 
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A good PM is hard to find in SA.

Most of them are useless. Best part of doing an interview with them is asking them to describe any part of the last project they managed, as they understood it. Then you see the bull**** start to fly.
 
reactor_sa said:
Lol, then what's the PM do???
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In the old lingo a Project Manager has to actually manage the project, take responsibility, mitigate risks, take care of resourcing etc

A Project Assistant / Administrator is essentially a glorified personal assistant who updates documentation only and worries about compliance checks that nobody else cares about ;)
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
In the old lingo a Project Manager has to actually manage the project, take responsibility, mitigate risks, take care of resourcing etc

A Project Assistant / Administrator is essentially a glorified personal assistant who updates documentation only and worries about compliance checks that nobody else cares about ;)
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QFT
 
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