porchrat
Honorary Master
What assumption did I make?
I don't recall claiming anything either way... could you point out where I did please.
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I don't recall claiming anything either way... could you point out where I did please.
So the Koran is correct because it was passed down by word of mouth, even having multiple recitals of the same thing will result in changes. When it occurred they would probably sit down and choose the one that they thought to be correct and been human they would make mistakes.
With regard to the bible, since I am catholic that is the bible I use, so I can’t comment on possible changes in the others.
What is wrong with the one liner’s?
As for twisting your word please point that out?
Abraham is seen as the starting point of the Jewish people who later gave forth Jesus Christ, so the Jewish faith is intertwined with ours
Where do you stand on the Old Testament and the Jewish people, given your treatment of them, particularly Jerusalem, Solomens temple, the Wailing Wall Etc?
I see no reason to show respect for your religion as it degenerates my beliefs particularly the core which is that Jesus was the son of God and our saviour
With regard to the bible, since I am catholic that is the bible I use, so I can’t comment on possible changes in the others.
What is wrong with the one liner’s?
As for twisting your word please point that out?
Abraham is seen as the starting point of the Jewish people who later gave forth Jesus Christ, so the Jewish faith is intertwined with ours
Where do you stand on the Old Testament and the Jewish people, given your treatment of them, particularly Jerusalem, Solomens temple, the Wailing Wall Etc?
I see no reason to show respect for your religion as it degenerates my beliefs particularly the core which is that Jesus was the son of God and our saviour
@digitalsoldier.No he created believers.People choose disbelief.
Read The Treaty of Hudaybiyah.Killing of non belivers was never considered until the non-believers themselves chose murder as a means to destroy Islam.
Would you consider death as a form of self-defense against those who want to destroy your family when there are no laws in place to protect them?
Read The Treaty of Hudaybiyah.Killing of non belivers was never considered until the non-believers themselves chose murder as a means to destroy Islam.
Would you consider death as a form of self-defense against those who want to destroy your family when there are no laws in place to protect them?
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porchrat
Honorary Master
That is a perfectly acceptable stance to take. Though be careful to never let that grow into a desire to prevent those people from practicing their religion.
They can quite happily believe what they want; I am a firm believer in free will.
I wouldn’t even kill some one who wanted to leave my faith, if it were a member of my family I would do my best to change there mind, but in the end it is not my choice.
I would then have to decide how to deal with the situation
Naks
Honorary Master
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Epic fail - the unreliability of the human memory is notorious. Ask any cop who takes witness statements
porchrat
Honorary Master
Awesome. Congratulations. (note this is not meant in a patronising way I'm genuinely saying that... some people in this world aren't as tolerant as you are)
LOL I should hope not.
Fair enough. I would hope you would at some point come to accept that choice and not try for the rest of your days to get that individual back into the flock. That is annoying for the individual and is a sign of disrespect for their decisions in life. It can lead to strained family relations and I'm sure you don't want that.
true that human memory is unreliable when it comes to the memory of a single person ... but if alot of people memorizes the same thing then the room for error is less ... actually zero ... so i dont think it is an epic fail
on a side note:
I also noticed that people like to point out the faults of islam and how islam is wrong and barbaric etc etc etc ... so far with the exception of a few people; nobody is actually teaching me about their religions since in order to claim that something is wrong you have to show how something else is right ... otherwise it's just slander and stereotypes about islam all day long ... true you have a right to your own opinion, but you are pointing out problems and no solutions come from you ... additionally each comment made about islam can be rectified ...
i would like to see people answer against the core of their religions without throwing a tantrum (so far i only know christianity a bit ... so i can ask questions on that if you would like to hear ... although they come off as very offensive so please bear that in mind if you want me to ask) since this should be a civilized discussion and points should be negated/raised using facts ... not random outbursts of sentences ... lol but im in a public forum so i should expect it right?
to answer the question about the following:
In islam abraham (ebrahim in islam) is a prophet of Allah (god) and the rituals of the Haj (pilgrimage) are largely based off his trials and tribulations ... in islam we consider abraham as the starting point of religion as well.
As far as jews go in islam we believe in the Taurat (i think that equates to the original Old Testament) ... and we believe in Moses (who we call Musa) as the prophet of Allah (god) ... but because of how the relations between the Muslims and the Jews in the past (long before israel which is a zionist and not a jew thing) we are taught not to trust them entirely ... in addition, the jews are not totally innocent since they did betray the muslims in a few agreements and while they were with Moses they also disobeyed Allah (like worshop the calf), etc etc .... i think (and i stand under correction here) that we believe that Jesus (Isa) was betrayed by the jews as well and that the reason why he was sentenced to crucifiction was because of the jews (the actual events of the crucifiction differs between islam and christianity)
yes you can make friends with them and you can deal with them, etc etc since people born jewish arent to blame for what happened in the past ... but you shouldnt entirely trust them because of what happened in the past .... im pretty sure that people will flame me alot for this now ... but thats according to history
i prefer threads where we can share our religious pasts instead of bickering about which religion is right and which is wrong ... each person has the ability to choose their religion freely and each person has the right to their own opinion ... and there are manners for expressing opinions ... but this is the internet and this is a forum and im a "barbarian" ... what do i know
My new question is for christianity what is the recorded account with regard to abraham ... this can be pm'd to me and i can give you the account of ebrahim according to islam ... i always wanted to know how the historical accounts differ
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alloytoo
Honorary Master
Very little has changed.
this thread will not get anywhere...... there's different religions here...... meaning different gods. The Christians dont believe in the same god as Islam does for example.
On the flipside the other religion Atheism dont believe in any outside god except the "I" god (me!me me me me!). This is like a cow telling a lion he should eat grass not meat!!!1
The principles, standards, morals etc of each faith is based on each faiths' believes.
On the flipside the other religion Atheism dont believe in any outside god except the "I" god (me!me me me me!). This is like a cow telling a lion he should eat grass not meat!!!1
The principles, standards, morals etc of each faith is based on each faiths' believes.
alloytoo
Honorary Master
Oh dear, hit a nerve, it can also be interpreted to lie for the community.
In my observation observation Muslims obfuscate/lie for Mohammed in much the same manner as Christians obfuscate/lie for Jesus and that was a clear example.
And this is probably another example. Are all the English translations of the Koran identical to every single comma?
I was hoping they would know their own theology better.
That's for them to decide.
I personally wouldn't trust anyone who wouldn't break bread with me.
alloytoo
Honorary Master
I'm bitterly disappointed in your complete inability to grasp the argument.
Omni-Omni cannot equate to free will.
Once you eliminate free will, then any punishment for any action (or inaction) must constitute sadism.
alloytoo
Honorary Master
I believe the evidence, got any?
alloytoo
Honorary Master
+100
I can understand you believe in the "evidence". What I mean is how do you see the long term future planning out concerning your own life (not getting younger you know & plenty of accidents, diseases etc). Is it reincarnation based, earth destruction, earth healing itself, same other kind of end to it all....... what? You must have some thought on this or do you just exist day by day?
alloytoo
Honorary Master
alloytoo
Honorary Master
I live, I reproduce my dna, try to enjoy life while leaving a pleasant environment for my progeny. I don't waste my time on Pascals wager.
alloytoo
Honorary Master
You are a strange little man, how does this link relate to my personal view on life?
http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/a_radiometric_dating_resource_list.htm
K-AR
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It may be less, but not nonexistent
Well there is quite a bit in the Koran that Christians find repugnant
Well based on how you have taken the Jewish and Christain writings and twisted them to meet your needs I would claim that your writings are wrong especially since ours predate yours by quite a few years. Also you love to try and twist the new testament to show that Muhamad was mentioned when he never was.
Convert to Christianity, problem solved
Really?
Does that include Islam to?
Why would they come off as offensive?
But he was the father of the Jewish Nation
Again with the plagiarism, Moses was also Jewish and led children of Israel out of bondage in Egypt
Israel was established a state by King David in 1055BC with the capital been Jerusalem, with regard to mount. So Israel is not a recent invention. The Jewish people have just resurrected their birthright which was taken from them by force.
So this makes it okay to call for the utter destruction of Israel and the Jewish people, plus you guys went ahead and build a mosques on the Temple Mount which was the site of two Jewish Temples, the first built in 957BC and the second in 8BC. The Ark of the Covenant was interred there before it disappeared and it is also the place where Jesus taught, making it sacred to Jews and Christains. To this day you prevent Jews and Christians from offering prayers on the Temple Mount.
They were punished for this, see Exodus 32
He was betrayed by Judas and then tried in an ecclesiastical court found guilty and then sent to the civil court of Pilate, where he was accused of sedition against roman rule, pilate then sends him to herod who send him back to Pilate who declares him innocent but give the people assembled the choice between Jesus and Barabbas for their paschal freedman.
Pilate then washes his hands of the affair and jesus is sentenced to crusifiction. There was a large amount of politics involved here. However once upon the cross jesus forgave the people who put him there
Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."
Gospel of Luke 23:34
So as Christians we can not hold them guilty as our lord and savior forgave them, plus it was only a small number of the Jewish high priests and leaders who were responsible for this, not the entire Jewish people
Based on the recent actions of the adherents of Islam there is no way on earth that I will trust them and I am pretty sure that the Jewish people haven’t forgiven you for how you have treated, them, their culture and religion.