R80,000 e-toll bill problem

Garyvdh said:
Sure, but I can't imagine the courts having much sympathy for him.
He is extending credit to people who have already been legally blacklisted.
That activity alone should be frowned upon by the courts.
The process of blacklisting people exists to protect other creditors from being burned by them.
This guy went in with his eyes fully open, and I can't imagine that the courts will have much sympathy for that.

Besides, he has known that e-tolling was coming for at least three years now. This is how they bypass the NCA act.
Plenty of time to put the measures in place to ensure collection of the toll fees.
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Gary, as far as I know they are entering into a rental agreement and not a credit agreement.
 
House said:
You are 100% correct.

He can complete the nomination form and provide copies of the agreements, but now he rather comes with BS about needing to trace people, etc. Hell, he has a team of repo men available to go and take a vehicle at any given moment, but now have 'tracing' issues....

He should actually be held responsible for all vehicles' e-toll accounts if he comes with these issues....
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Now go fap sanrals eTollie for them!
 
ToxicBunny said:
Really?

A person who buys cars for people who are blacklisted, expects his clients to pay for e-tolls?

This just seems like a dense business model all around any way.
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At the risk of hijacking this thread, it's highly unlikely that he "buys" the vehicle it more likely that he he taken over the payments from existing bank financed clients and in turn rents them out to a third party. This is not legal
 
Skywalker786 said:
At the risk of hijacking this thread, it's highly unlikely that he "buys" the vehicle it more likely that he he taken over the payments from existing bank financed clients and in turn rents them out to a third party. This is not legal
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Hoola Hoop scams. That was my initial thought...
 
House said:
Gary, as far as I know they are entering into a rental agreement and not a credit agreement.
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That is going to make little difference to the court.

BTW, most rental agreements ARE also credit agreements.
 
Garyvdh said:
Sure, but I can't imagine the courts having much sympathy for him.
He is extending credit to people who have already been legally blacklisted.
That activity alone should be frowned upon by the courts.
The process of blacklisting people exists to protect other creditors from being burned by them.
This guy went in with his eyes fully open, and I can't imagine that the courts will have much sympathy for that.

Besides, he has known that e-tolling was coming for at least three years now.
Plenty of time to put the measures in place to ensure collection of the toll fees.
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I doubt he'll have much sympathy but remember blacklisting is a bit of a misnomer there is a record of credit information kept by private enterprises (and regulated by the NCA) and then there is the simple question of "outstanding" judgments. For the most part somebody who has had a judgment entered against them in the High Court is effectively "blacklisted" for life and each credit provider considers whether to afford creditor. The point though is that SANRAL have changed the goal posts quite consistently and want to extract money without issuance of an invoice which is quite simply an easy win if it is important to your business which at 80k a month is what he should do.
 
Garyvdh... do you have your e-tag yet?* :p

*because you sound supportive of the economic damage SANRALs e-tolls can cause, this guy employs people I'm sure, and pays tax hopefully, if he has to close down, none of the above happens anymore...
 
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No, I don't have an e-tag and my record of opposition to e-tolling is fairly clear, but I still have no sympathy for this guy.
Just because a gap exists in the market, doesn't mean it is an entrepreneurial dream.
 
Just a quick question, my mother and everyone in my family refuses to pay etolls as we live in midrand and in the middle of the whole thing, my mom received a SMS today saying "you have overdue e-toll fees in the amount of R83.73 which have been handed over for collection to VPC. Call 0800SANRAL (726725) REF:......"

Who is the VPC in the first place and we haven't registered for a stag or anything and how does this happen ? Any advice?

Thanks
 
Garyvdh said:
No, I don't have an e-tag and my record of opposition to e-tolling is fairly clear, but I still have no sympathy for this guy.
Just because a gap exists in the market, doesn't mean it is an entrepreneurial dream.
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That's what entrepreneurs are all about :erm:

And if his business closes and he doesn't pay various taxes anymore and has to fire whatever admin staff its fine, just because his business area is slightly predatory?
 
supersunbird said:
That's what entrepreneurs are all about :erm:

And if his business closes and he doesn't pay various taxes anymore and has to fire whatever admin staff its fine, just because his business area is slightly predatory?
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UH no... entrepreneurs build their business out of viable and sound ideas.
Renting vehicles out to people who have already proved that they cannot be trusted is not a sound business idea or anywhere near entrepreneurial. :wtf:
You would think that would just be commons sense, but I suppose there has to be one person desperate enough or crazy enough to try it.

And if his business closes, then his staff can put it down to the risky nature of the business.or their boss's lack of foresight in seeing the potential damaging nature of e-tolls to his business.
That's how the economy works.
 
Garyvdh said:
UH no... entrepreneurs build their business out of viable and sound ideas.
Renting vehicles out to people who have already proved that they cannot be trusted is not a sound business idea or anywhere near entrepreneurial. :wtf:
You would think that would just be commons sense, but I suppose there has to be one person desperate enough or crazy enough to try it.

And if his business closes, then his staff can put it down to the risky nature of the business.or their boss's lack of foresight in seeing the potential damaging nature of e-tolls to his business.
That's how the economy works.
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agreed, but the market also works that nasty people's business fights can accomplish good things for others. The details are a bit sketchy but a situation where a legal vehicle leasing operation to subprime customers is destroyed by SANRALs etolling system gives a good case for SANRAL to be nabbed by same business in the courts.
 
Paul Hjul said:
agreed, but the market also works that nasty people's business fights can accomplish good things for others. The details are a bit sketchy but a situation where a legal vehicle leasing operation to subprime customers is destroyed by SANRALs etolling system gives a good case for SANRAL to be nabbed by same business in the courts.
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Ja no sure, I'm not disputing that part. But the article says that the guy is already on the ropes because a lot of his customers are in arrears. So he can't afford to make an R80,000 payment. I am not defending SANRAL in this scenario, they are in the wrong on any given day, but this guy is already in the mess he is in because of poor business choices.
 
Garyvdh said:
Ja no sure, I'm not disputing that part. But the article says that the guy is already on the ropes because a lot of his customers are in arrears. So he can't afford to make an R80,000 payment. I am not defending SANRAL in this scenario, they are in the wrong on any given day, but this guy is already in the mess he is in because of poor business choices.
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well so far its only 20k but it will be 80k for a month. He needs to rather put 40k towards making the lawyers happy :)

Predators need to fight each other
 
Garyvdh said:
UH no... entrepreneurs build their business out of viable and sound ideas.
Renting vehicles out to people who have already proved that they cannot be trusted is not a sound business idea or anywhere near entrepreneurial. :wtf:
You would think that would just be commons sense, but I suppose there has to be one person desperate enough or crazy enough to try it.

And if his business closes, then his staff can put it down to the risky nature of the business.or their boss's lack of foresight in seeing the potential damaging nature of e-tolls to his business.
That's how the economy works.
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We sell cell phone contracts to people who have defaults\judgements, and Our monthly contract fee is roughly 150% to 250% more than traditional routes, due to probability of non payment and credit profile of client.

The only way you build a business doing this is working out your monthly premiums in ratio to what your default payments will be, this is where he is falling flat.

As someone said he knew this was coming so he should have planned this way back then rather than running around now making a noise and being the "victim"

You want to play with fire you will indeed get burnt.
 
Garyvdh said:
Ja no sure, I'm not disputing that part. But the article says that the guy is already on the ropes because a lot of his customers are in arrears. So he can't afford to make an R80,000 payment. I am not defending SANRAL in this scenario, they are in the wrong on any given day, but this guy is already in the mess he is in because of poor business choices.
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This isn't so much about his business model, but about SANRAL's inability to provide him with legally required statements and invoices.

He should be proactive, send SANRAL a list of all his customers and reg numbers by registered mail, and wait for SANRAL to take him to court.

The court isn't going to say: "Oh you have a dodgy business model."

It's going to say, "Oh you made a reasonable effort to advise SANRAL of the liable party. Case dismissed with costs."
 
No valid tax invoice, no payment. Simple really
 
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