Ramaphosa's bizarre power plan

[BBSA]

The list of investment deals and agreements punted by President Cyril Ramaphosa after his state visit to China this week includes a hugely improbable plan to build another new 4 600 megawatt coal power station in Limpopo.

In a statement this week listing the achievements of the trip, the presidency said a number of Chinese projects in the Musina-Makhado special economic zone (SEZ) “have been prioritised for implementation”.

These are “a 4 600MW coal-fired plant, a cement plant and other metallurgical projects”.

This came only a week after Energy Minister Jeff Radebe revealed the long-awaited new Integrated Resource Plan (IRP), charting the future of energy investments in South Africa – a future conspicuously lacking in major new coal stations.

Legally impossible

It is legally impossible to build power stations in South Africa unless they correspond to the IRP’s forecasts of power needs, costs and emissions.

Section 34 of the Electricity Regulation Act calls for the minister of energy to make ministerial determinations for specific investments – based on the IRP.

The Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) confirmed the presidency’s statement and sent City Press its own summary of memorandums of agreement struck in China, with a more detailed list of the “priority” projects.

Among these, it lists the “Power China International Energy Project in Musina-Makhado SEZ”.

“The aim is to invest in the construction and operation of a 4 600MW coal-fired plant. This is a six-year project construction period,” reads the DTI summary.

Asked about the conflict betweenthis plan and the IRP, the DTI responded that “the Limpopo province is compiling comprehensive inputs on the draft IRP report that is currently out for public comments”.

“The inputs will include a request to include the proposed investment.”

“It is also important to note tha, the proposed power station is not only based on the connection to the grid, but the internal supply of the SEZ,” said the DTI.

https://m.fin24.com/Economy/ramaphosas-bizarre-power-plan-20180909-2

 

[Gordon_R]

Coal fired power plants are in deep crisis in SA: https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...cas-king-coal-sector-is-in-a-state-of-crisis/

Coal in South Africa has been what one energy policy expert calls “ludicrously” cheap for decades. This has changed, for a variety of reasons, leading to Eskom’s coal costs increasing by a massive 300% over the last 20 years.

The commodity that for decades was dubbed King Coal is no longer cheap, no longer bountiful – and can no longer ensure a secure supply of energy.

 

[Johnatan56]

Getting from Wikipedia as they have nice tables, but you can always follow to the source.



The new Lazard report is due in 2 months.

It makes no sense to continue investing into coal beyond what we already have for peak.
It's interesting that CSVP (the solar thermal tower with storage) is about the same cost or cheaper per MWh than nuclear, and is still becoming cheaper (2016 it's lower was 119, high 182).


And then this article:

The organisation – which has more than 150 member countries – says the cost of generating power from onshore wind has fallen by around 23% since 2010 while the cost of solar photovoltaic (PV) electricity has fallen by 73% in that time. With further price falls expected for these and other green energy options, IRENA says all renewable energy technologies should be competitive on price with fossil fuels by 2020.

Globally, onshore wind schemes are now costing an average of $0.06 per kilowatt hour (kWh), although some schemes are coming in at $0.04 per KwH, while the cost of solar PV is down to $0.10 per KwH. In comparison, the cost of electricity generation based on fossil fuels typically falls in a range of $0.05 to $0.17 per KwH.

The figures are contained in IRENA's Renewable Power Generation Costs in 2017 report, which was released on January 13, the first day of the 8th IRENA Assembly in Abu Dhabi, the capital city of the UAE. The report predicts that solar costs will fall even further in the next few years, with a further halving of typical costs by 2020. That means onshore wind and solar PV projects could be consistently delivering electricity for as little as $0.03 per kWh within two years.
....
If renewable energy is indeed able to undercut the cost of legacy fuels, then governments and large corporations building new power plants will almost certainly turn to green energy for any new capacity, which will reduce demand for oil, natural gas and coal.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/domini...able-energy-cost-effective-fossil-fuels-2020/

And in regards to CSVP from that article:

IRENA estimates that offshore wind and concentrating solar power should cost in a range of $0.06-$0.10 per KwH by 2020-22.

Which would make it competitive/beat coal.

 

[Polymathic]

I think he's nostalgic for the times the entire nation had load shedding because of damp coal

 

[Seriously]

The list of investment deals and agreements punted by President Cyril Ramaphosa after his state visit to China this week includes a hugely improbable plan to build another new 4 600 megawatt coal power station in Limpopo.

In a statement this week listing the achievements of the trip, the presidency said a number of Chinese projects in the Musina-Makhado special economic zone (SEZ) “have been prioritised for implementation”.

These are “a 4 600MW coal-fired plant, a cement plant and other metallurgical projects”.

This came only a week after Energy Minister Jeff Radebe revealed the long-awaited new Integrated Resource Plan (IRP), charting the future of energy investments in South Africa – a future conspicuously lacking in major new coal stations.

Legally impossible

It is legally impossible to build power stations in South Africa unless they correspond to the IRP’s forecasts of power needs, costs and emissions.

Section 34 of the Electricity Regulation Act calls for the minister of energy to make ministerial determinations for specific investments – based on the IRP.

The Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) confirmed the presidency’s statement and sent City Press its own summary of memorandums of agreement struck in China, with a more detailed list of the “priority” projects.

Among these, it lists the “Power China International Energy Project in Musina-Makhado SEZ”.

“The aim is to invest in the construction and operation of a 4 600MW coal-fired plant. This is a six-year project construction period,” reads the DTI summary.

Asked about the conflict betweenthis plan and the IRP, the DTI responded that “the Limpopo province is compiling comprehensive inputs on the draft IRP report that is currently out for public comments”.

“The inputs will include a request to include the proposed investment.”

“It is also important to note tha, the proposed power station is not only based on the connection to the grid, but the internal supply of the SEZ,” said the DTI.

https://m.fin24.com/Economy/ramaphosas-bizarre-power-plan-20180909-2

Mmmmm...Mmmmm. Is that not the same belt where the best and biggest Mashado coal belt exists deep under the EWC listed gaming farms. Was the Chinese consortiums not the key drivers for the mining rights at the same belt involving said farms with court cases since long ago. The now lost R20Mil bargain for a R200Mil farm now worth a net R0.00?

I am sure F2Wolf will soon cone help me out my conspiracies here.

"EWC...just in time for Chinese development agreements in Mashado....... and possibly Magaliesberg"

Will be waiting for further developments and announcements in anticipation in there near future.

The A_NC Team: "I love it when a plan comes together"

 

[thestaggy]

Mmmmm...Mmmmm. Is that not the same belt where the best and biggest Mashado coal belt exists deep under the EWC listed gaming farms. Was the Chinese consortiums not the key drivers for the mining rights at the same belt involcing said farms with court cases since long ago. The now lost R20Mil bargain for a R200Mil farm now worth a net R0.00?

I am sure F2Wolf will soon cone help me out my conspiracies here.

"EWC...just in time for Chinese development agreements in Mashado....... and possibly Magaliesberg"

Will be waiting for further developments and announcements in anticipation in there near future.

The A_NC Team: "I love it when a plan comes together"

''It's illegal to do that and everything government does is above board''

 

[grok]

Maybe the rumors of him using EWC to get that game farm for its coal rights are true after all..?

Either way, this is the reasoning of a billionaire? Doubt he could have gotten that far if he wasn't gifted his fortune. It's just more & more obvious our dearly elected president has no clue...

 

[hawker]

It's all part of our slow slide into socialism and then communism.

Writing is on the wall.

 

[thestaggy]

It's all part of our slow slide into socialism and then communism.

Writing is on the wall.

Nobody ever reaches communism. They all get stuck at ''socialist dictatorship''. But yeah, wouldn't be surprised if we end up there.

 

[BBSA]

Mmmmm...Mmmmm. Is that not the same belt where the best and biggest Mashado coal belt exists deep under the EWC listed gaming farms. Was the Chinese consortiums not the key drivers for the mining rights at the same belt involcing said farms with court cases since long ago. The now lost R20Mil bargain for a R200Mil farm now worth a net R0.00?

I am sure F2Wolf will soon cone help me out my conspiracies here.

"EWC...just in time for Chinese development agreements in Mashado....... and possibly Magaliesberg"

Will be waiting for further developments and announcements in anticipation in there near future.

The A_NC Team: "I love it when a plan comes together"

Where is @f2wohf to debunk this post?

 

[Seriously]

Where is @f2wohf to debunk this post?

Yip. Do not know. He claims and defend that the ANC offer of R20mil for the complete game farm is a fair ."MARKET " price? Now consider this.

Farm land R?
Farm Game fencing R?
Farm improvements R?
GaMe on farm R? TOTAL

All that for R20Mil? Yet Ramaphosa sold in auction ONE (as in 1) wildebeest for R4.5Mil, highest price for another was R7.5 Mil in same auction. Now I am considering the possibility that just like Zuma, NO one in the ANC and cadres can count or even perceive the values when it comes to financial numbers.

F2wohf??????

 

[Pitbull]

The list of investment deals and agreements punted by President Cyril Ramaphosa after his state visit to China this week includes a hugely improbable plan to build another new 4 600 megawatt coal power station in Limpopo.

And the reason the State wants to expropriate the 2 farms in Limpopo...

 

[f2wohf]

Yip. Do not know. He claims and defend that the ANC offer of R20mil for the complete game farm is a fair ."MARKET " price? Now consider this.

Farm land R?
Farm Game fencing R?
Farm improvements R?
GaMe on farm R? TOTAL

All that for R20Mil? Yet Ramaphosa sold in auction ONE (as in 1) wildebeest for R4.5Mil, highest price for another was R7.5 Mil in same auction. Now I am considering the possibility that just like Zuma, NO one in the ANC and cadres can count or even perceive the values when it comes to financial numbers.

F2wohf??????

Quote me where I said that R20M was the price or a fair market price. I always said the truth is probably between 20 and 50M. I did not value the farm and have no clue of what any farm can cost.

The Department came with two quotes:
- from the Valuer General at R20M
- from an independent valuer at 21/22M I think.

The owners came with two:
- R50M (which already included the value of potential future developments),
- R200M (no further details on this one).

 

[f2wohf]

Mmmmm...Mmmmm. Is that not the same belt where the best and biggest Mashado coal belt exists deep under the EWC listed gaming farms. Was the Chinese consortiums not the key drivers for the mining rights at the same belt involving said farms with court cases since long ago. The now lost R20Mil bargain for a R200Mil farm now worth a net R0.00?

I am sure F2Wolf will soon cone help me out my conspiracies here.

"EWC...just in time for Chinese development agreements in Mashado....... and possibly Magaliesberg"

Will be waiting for further developments and announcements in anticipation in there near future.

The A_NC Team: "I love it when a plan comes together"

Again, can you get the facts even slightly right.

The farm is close to Makhado, not Mashado. Mashado is south from there.

How is it EWC if there is a court date and a department ready to pay for it?

The land claim is from 1996, the exploration rights from 2000 something, the Chinese came in in 2013, the project was developped by Arcelor Mittal. It was already an ongoing process. Why don't you make a whole fuss when something far more sinister (people actually displaced) is occurring for years in Eastern Cape with an Australian mining company? https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/...out-australian-mining-companys-plans-20180423

What consortium, there's strictly no consortium in the farm story?

How is it now worth R0 since the department wants to pay for it?

The plant is being planned for years, building a mine close to a plant makes sense yes (but let's not do it, truck coal for 500kms and pay triple the price no?). It's actually industry practice. https://www.iol.co.za/business-report/companies/limpopo-to-get-new-r39bn-power-plant-1778938

Quote me again when you state facts, I'm tired of correcting the figments of your imagination.

Can you also stop your ignorant rant on "the Chinese" and name the companies. You don't say the Germans for VW or the Americans for Coca Cola? Why that ignorant vision that all Chinese work together in complete collusion?

But hey, keep on bashing on investment in your country and then moan when there's no investment...

 

[Compton_effect]

Quote me where I said that R20M was the price or a fair market price. I always said the truth is probably between 20 and 50M. I did not value the farm and have no clue of what any farm can cost.

The Department came with two quotes:
- from the Valuer General at R20M
- from an independent valuer at 21/22M I think.

The owners came with two:
- R50M (which already included the value of potential future developments),
- R200M (no further details on this one).

The R50M was if it was turned into a eco-estate, with the required investment in rezoning, infrastructure, etc.
And the Independent valuer who did the R20M wrote the book on farm valuations, literally - my wife has a copy.
The R200M value... No one knows where he found that one.

 

[Seriously]

Quote me where I said that R20M was the price or a fair market price. I always said the truth is probably between 20 and 50M. I did not value the farm and have no clue of what any farm can cost.

The Department came with two quotes:
- from the Valuer General at R20M
- from an independent valuer at 21/22M I think.

The owners came with two:
- R50M (which already included the value of potential future developments),
- R200M (no further details on this one).

Seems to me that for some reason or other you seem to talk or "debate" a lot about things you do have no clue about, as you just confirmed?

 

[Agent_Smith]

Wasn't the nuclear deal scrapped in favour of renewables? How is a coal power plant renewable?

 

[*SynergyX*]

Wasn't the nuclear deal scrapped in favour of renewables? How is a coal power plant renewable?

wait .. i just asked the guy sitting next to me :

when you burn something it becomes char'coal' so you burn it again and the cycle continues... Renewable.

 

[f2wohf]

Seems to me that for some reason or other you seem to talk or "debate" a lot about things you do have no clue about, as you just confirmed?

Please stop changing goalposts and quote where I stated the fair price.

Otherwise apologize for stating something obviously wrong.

 

[f2wohf]

Wasn't the nuclear deal scrapped in favour of renewables? How is a coal power plant renewable?

The plant is in planning since at least 2014. Way before the nuclear was scrapped.