Rand plunges below R7.50/$

kilo39

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(I've been idly looking at buying little kruger rands - the smallest ones..
I dunno the rules on
gold ownership back in SA, but here in the US, it seems fairly simple - you
just buy it, no problem..
Was thinking in worst case scenario's, having a few handfuls of tradable,
known value precious metal coins, when everyone around you has worthless
paper, could mean the difference between eating and starving.
It's not that simple LG (though I can't find my reference to justify my statement.) Has to do with Krugers being coins not gold, ie, they are part of the coin collectors market and as such are valueless in comparison to dealing 'real coins.' (Or similar.) You should do more research.

/IOW krugers are a scam only ever worth less than the gold price (they would have to be melted down.) Unlike the true coin market (which they are part of) which can and does outstrip the gold price (and has more long term value.)

//but collecting coins is whole different ballgame.

As said, do some research.
 
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LoneGunman

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ok, thanks for that..

I'm just (as is my nature) wary of trusting the
mainstream 'experts' completely - as they have
an inherent vested interest in preserving the status
quo - whereas some of my 'idle' thoughts, do try and
think outside the box, and have a plan B for if/when
the status quo is no longer there - which is something
that is not catered for usually, by orthodox financial
experts..
 

LoneGunman

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re kruger rands and gold buying/selling..

nope - there's obviously a benefit to 'collectors' -
however, in terms of sci-fi-like total meltdown of an economy,
there is a definite use to having a small value coin, with a printed
value that is known, which can be used to barter.
Its still gold, and it has an intrinsic value.

Have a look at http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/krugerrandinfo.html
EDIT: here're the prices for the different types of kruger gold sizes
http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/wesellkrugers.html

Also to get ones head around the bigger (perhaps paranoid) picture, which is
coming, like me, from a totally different place to the well off 'collector' of coins,
or owner of coins for 'investment' purposes..
read Gold and Silver for Survival Purposes
http://www.certifiedmint.com/y2k-1.htm

then there's the general - http://www.kitco.com
 
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kilo39

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ok, thanks for that..

I'm just (as is my nature) wary of trusting the
mainstream 'experts' completely - as they have
an inherent vested interest in preserving the status
quo - whereas some of my 'idle' thoughts, do try and
think outside the box, and have a plan B for if/when
the status quo is no longer there - which is something
that is not catered for usually, by orthodox financial
experts..
The status quo can never 'not be there.' Safeguards and securities are built into the market (so short of a direct meteor strike or total global nuclear war your fears are unfounded.)

If these things had to come to be then you are the peep with the most value and the most likely target. Is it not better to be poor (with all of the rest of the starving masses?)

:D
 

BobbyMac

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LG: regarding gold.

Gold is seen as a "safety stock" during troubled times - but only as long as there is not a stock market crash. Traders will typically buy gold stocks when events rattle the markets a bit. The reason being that due to its scarcity, it is a highly valued stock, and generally speaking it will be the last (note: not necessarily least) stock to take a nose dive in the event of a stock market crash. For that reason it is seen as a safety stock, and generally it is also used as an instrument to predict market movement and trends. However, no stock will survive a full blown crash.

Here's a few things about stock market corrections (and very much also applicable to crashes):
1. A correction (or crash) sheds growth that was accumulated in literally a few weeks or even months in less than a day, and even sometimes in less than a few hours.
2. Bears are always more devastating than Bulls
3. You don't actually know when it's a correction and when it's a crash in the first couple of days. In my opinion we're seeing a correction - we would've shed a lot more value off our stocks than we have so far. It is carnage out there, but not enough to represent a stock market crash
4. A crash is almost always followed by a recession

The effects of a stock market crash on the normal individual in this country could be potentially devastating as well. A knee jerk reaction from the reserve bank would be to raise interest rates to consolidate the reserve bank losses. The biggest threat is in the event of a really bad crash companies close their doors and/or lay off staff.

To answer your question on buying gold like Krugerrands. Krugerrands escalate in value and are 100% linked to the gold price. Krugerrands in themselves are rare items (proof coins) and retain their value pretty well (as these are collector's items). In terms of having something like metal coins vs paper notes meaning the difference between eating and starving - not quite - you're gonna have to sell those coins to get money to buy food - and whose gonna give you a good price for the coins when you're desperate? Stock market crashes erode some of your savings (and if you're not a smart investor then yes, it could wipe out all of your savings), but it's much better to have at least some conservative savings that are not as affected by stock market fluctuations just in case you need it one day.
 
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LoneGunman

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re the status quo.. okay, I'm using that to refer
to the value of the currency. Folks - as mentioned
in that link - in Argentina, discovered what happens
when a currency value falls away.
Closer to home..
If you had a time machine, and could go back just a
few years, to Zimbabwe, and have converted quantities
of the currency to small, barterable kruger coins - you'd
have experienced almost no loss or problems - unlike everyone
else, as the currency became increasingly worthless..

You'd also have been able to get out at any point, including
now, if you'd been clever enough to NOT trust in 'currency'.

There's an advantage to having a little handful or bag or two,
of small, clearly marked, valuable-in-their-own-right-as-precious-metal
coins to work with.. not the one ounce krugers, but smaller, so that
if the day comes when the money means nothing, you can trade
a gold coin for groceries, or the ride to the airport, or the bribe to
the border guard etc
EDIT: re whose going to give you a good price..
you dont need a 'good price' for the coins, if you've got them for
survival purposes - all thats necessary, is that you - unlike your
neighbor with a big wad of worthless currency - can get supplies,
or transport, or whatever's needed, if/when the poo hits the fan
in some way..
'survival' usage of small gold coins, doesnt need to conform to the
usual rules of comfy secure gold collectors.. its literally about using
this piece of gold coin, to survive, when others around you are
totally and utterly stuck (with their worthless currency, or pieces of
plastic credit/bank cards that mean nothing)
 
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BobbyMac

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LG: Ok, BUT then you're working on the assumption of a local market crash rather than a global market crash.
 

LoneGunman

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well, I'm working on the assumption of a disruption to the 'norm'
- which might cause the local currency, (where ever I am) to
disintegrate in some way or another.

Whether its a global market meltdown, and its ripple effects,
or some other scenario - when it comes down to it,
to ensure personal survival - then its useful to just have
a guaranteed means of 'survival' regardless of the form of 'disruption'
thats caused you to need to have a handful of itty bitty gold coins
for barter/trade.

It may not be a 'good investment' or whatever, in the general scheme
of things - but - like a parachute, you only need the thing to work
one time - and when you DO need it, it has to be there, or you're dead.

So its just a longterm, quiet parachute, regardless of what kind of plane
(if any) one finds oneself falling out of :)

And as folks have noticed, I tend to be keeping an eye out for worst case
scenario's generally - so it follows that I'd take a couple of steps to ensure
that I and my significant others, would be able to keep on going, if
something disrupted what people regard as 'normal day to day living'.

To me its sensible preventative thinking - to others, it might seem nuts.
But it does mean I have all bases nicely covered, and that to me,
is real security :p
 
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Syndyre

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When I was in SA, I kept asking FNB about the legality of gold ownership,
but they didnt know, and seemed uninterested in helping me find out..
AFAIK in SA Krugerrands are technically legal tender and the only way you can legally own gold in SA, you can essentially own as much of them as you like, provided everything's declared to SARS etc.
 

Syndyre

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a financial question to the experts here - (and please remember, I am TOTALLY
IGNORANT re the overviews of financial markets)
I'm seeing a growing nervousness
on various sites, about a possible looming stock market crash - dow jones,
hang sen, nikkei etc, all down - and there's whispers that this might be the long feared meltdown of the global economy..
(No, I have no agenda's or insider info :p
LG try and get a book called "Empire of Debt".
 

JK8

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AFAIK in SA Krugerrands are technically legal tender and the only way you can legally own gold in SA, you can essentially own as much of them as you like, provided everything's declared to SARS etc.
And even if its a gift?
 

tibby.dude

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Rand/Dollar does not worry me at all ... there is bigger worries on the horizon.

Saudi oil production has already dropped by 6% since last year even though they are exploring and drilling like crazy ... their massive Ghawar field is slowly but surely tanking.

The last big oil field discovered was in 1967.

Read up on Peak Oil and realize how the dark days await us.
 

Jerrek

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Rand/Dollar does not worry me at all ... there is bigger worries on the horizon.

Saudi oil production has already dropped by 6% since last year even though they are exploring and drilling like crazy ... their massive Ghawar field is slowly but surely tanking.

The last big oil field discovered was in 1967.

Read up on Peak Oil and realize how the dark days await us.
Good lord man. Alberta has enough oil for the US and Canada for the next 100 years.
 

CooperS

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Read up on Peak Oil and realize how the dark days await us.
Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Iran (if the yanks leave them alone), Kuwait and the Caspian. have enough proven reserves of natural gas (let alone oil reserves) to keep us going for a good long while yet tibby. There are constant (HUGE) oil fields being found in the deep water blocks off Angola too.

Our biggest worry is good ole bush.

BTW a weak rand is a bonus for us that work out of the country - at least someone benifits
 

Jerrek

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Alberta has more oil than the Saudi Arabia. About 250 to 300 billion barrels at this point. Cost to extract: about $25/barrel.
 

LoneGunman

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What I'm curious about - seeing as oil is mentioned, is how come Nigeria's
oil doesn't help Africa much. I think some 15% of Shell's total global profit,
comes from Nigeria alone. Funny that neither it, nor any other African countries, seem to be benefiting.

Wanna see the US Military 'discover' Al Qeada in Africa, and move forces
and warships in? Let people start suggesting nationalizing Nigeria's oil. There'll be a shock and awe campaign real fast, to hunt down the 'terrorists'
methinks.
 

McSack

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What I'm curious about - seeing as oil is mentioned, is how come Nigeria's
oil doesn't help Africa much.
I'm sure you'll find it goes straight out offshore my china

...if you get my drift
 

tibby.dude

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Alberta has more oil than the Saudi Arabia. About 250 to 300 billion barrels at this point. Cost to extract: about $25/barrel.
But it is in the form of tar sand and not in crude oil ... to expensive to extract on a commercial basis since you need specialized refineries to process them.
 
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