RBS 6 Nations 2017

OrbitalDawn said:
If they can give England a bloody nose that'd be the cherry on the cake.
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England has been bloodied twice now in the 6 Nations. For some reason they do not succumb to pressure since Jones took over. Their composer have won them two matches which clearly were the opponents game to take. This while they are scraping depth at the moment.

This will be Scotland's opportunity to capitalise, but they need to be without worry.
 
Whoo!

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...lys-no-ruck-innovation-could-kill-rugby-union

England suggest Italy’s no-ruck innovation could kill rugby union

England struggled to adapt to Italy’s tactic of not committing any men to the ruck after making the tackle, which means there is no offside line. The defending champions recovered from 10-5 down at half-time to score five second-half tries and clinch a 17th straight victory which moves them back to the top of the Six Nations table. But Jones lashed out at the Azzurri’s game plan.

He said: “[World Rugby] are in charge of the shape of the game and I am sure [the chairman] Bill Beaumont will have watched the game today and will take some action. We saw a Trevor Chappell game of rugby today. If that’s rugby, I’m going to retire. That’s not rugby. If you paid for your ticket, ask for your money back. If you think that’s smart, fantastic. I don’t think it’s smart rugby. In football they say park the bus. I don’t know what they had, but it was bigger than a bus. The whole game became a joke.”

By not committing any men to the ruck, Italy were able in effect to stand in between England’s acting scrum-half and his receivers. England, for whom a number of players appeared to be unfamiliar with the law and sought clarification from the referee, Romain Poite, struggled to adapt. Jones added: “If your half‑back can’t pass the ball, then there’s something wrong with the game. You’re looking to pass and all you see is one of their players. Could we have adjusted even quicker? Possibly but it’s difficult.” Asked if he thought the Italy tactic was “genius”, Jones said: “We got five points, they got zero. If that is genius, OK.”

The Italy head coach, Conor O’Shea, countered by accusing Jones of lacking respect when calling on England to take Italy “to the cleaners” and offered a staunch defence of his side’s game plan. He cited examples of it being used by Australia against Ireland in the autumn and in a recent Champions Cup match between Wasps and Toulouse, and credited Brendan Venter – the Italy defence coach who was brought to Saracens by Jones in 2009 – with its inception.

“He wanted to take us to the cleaners. Is that respect? I actually loved it when they kicked for goal as that was a bit of respect and I’m gutted that we finished the game off the way we did,” said O’Shea. “But if people think that we’re just going to lie back, I’m not there to take a salary for four years and not make a difference.

“If people think we’re just going to lie down and take it, they’re wrong. So you’re going to see us fight and do things differently, and we’ll have bad days, we’ll have dark days, we know that. There’s so much to do, but we’ll do it and I think today you could almost say we’ve had enough and we’re going to fight. I am sick and tired of people having a pop and having a go. We came here to win. We kicked to corners, we missed a few kicks at goal, we attacked off scrums and we showed some unbelievable defence. So stop having a go.”
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OrbitalDawn said:
Was just reading about the Italian tactics. Anyone watch the game? How'd it actually play out?
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See 18:07

[video=youtube;XCkKc2MzomA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCkKc2MzomA[/video]

There are more examples throughout and I can understand why some people will be mad about it.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
See 18:07

[video=youtube;XCkKc2MzomA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCkKc2MzomA[/video]

There are more examples throughout and I can understand why some people will be mad about it.
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Yeah. Its crazy to watch and it looks wrong. But on one hand yes it's a bit of a mockery, but it's also the rules so wtf?

I don't know what to think but I do know I don't like it.
 
Spizz said:
Yeah. Its crazy to watch and it looks wrong. But on one hand yes it's a bit of a mockery, but it's also the rules so wtf?

I don't know what to think but I do know I don't like it.
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I see there are two camps to this, many agreeing with Jones and many agreeing with what is dubbed as ‘The Fox’ tactic. It does spoil the game, because you cannot physically remove the opposition player which is standing in the line, it is a dead block. Say, now that Italy has deployed it on the world stage, that it becomes the norm then rugby as a game as we know it is over.

For once Eddie Jones is on the mark.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru.../How-Italy-used-Fox-tactic-stump-England.html

England 36-15 Italy: How Conor O'Shea and Brendan Venter used 'The Fox' tactic to stump England

Head coach Conor O'Shea has nicknamed it 'The Fox' and revealed that Brendan Venter, the defence coach, was the mastermind. It was an entirely legitimate tactic, despite England's protestations.

In rugby when a ruck is formed it creates an invisible offside line that runs parallel to the try-line, level with the back foot of the hindmost player on either side. A ruck is formed when one or more players from each team are in physical contact over the ball on the ground.

3DB8069F00000578-0-image-m-2_1488146267537.jpg

Therefore Italy decided not to put any men in the breakdown so a ruck was never formed, there was no offside line, meaning defending players could stand where they wanted.

Captain Sergio Parisse and scrum-half Edoardo Gori stood in England's attacking line, preventing passes to the backs.
O'Shea and his coaches hatched the plan last Sunday, when analysing their heavy defeat by Ireland.

Venter said to O'Shea, 'Please listen and don't think I'm mad' as he explained the idea.

They then met referee Romain Poite, as all teams are permitted to do, and clarified the law.

Poite told them they had to leave a metre gap for the scrum-half as it was not in the spirit of the game to take him out, so they hovered in England's line.
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As I understand the Italian players also took a dive when this tactic did not go per plan. Winning them ground when the English were held up at their 'uncontested rucks'. I am glad Venter did not bring this suggestion to the Springbok camp. World Rugby needs to clean this up.
 
Yeah, not cool. Seriously bad tactic by Italy if you ask me and not in the spirit of the game. And as Jones said, it didn't work because they lost.

But at the very least it did piss off Eddie Jones so something good came out of it
 
Here is a snip with The Fox in action,

Italy Identify Loophole in Rugby Laws vs England

[video=youtube;k1Abavj16hg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Abavj16hg[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Abavj16hg

I know that many people do not support England rugby, but to support the Italians… I wonder what the general opinion will be when England decide to exploit their opposition in an similar manner since this is not against the rugby law?

To quote the law,

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=16&language=EN

DEFINITIONS

A ruck is a phase of play where one or more players from each team, who are on their feet, in physical contact, close around the ball on the ground. Open play has ended.

Players are rucking when they are in a ruck and using their feet to try to win or keep possession of the ball, without being guilty of foul play.
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I'm sorry to say, the 1st incident the Italian no. 10 touch the opposition player in the phase, that is to be called a ruck. Parisse also physically engaged at another incident. To quote,

All players forming, joining or taking part in a ruck must have their heads and shoulders no lower than their hips.
Sanction: Free Kick
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and

Placing a hand on another player in the ruck does not constitute binding.
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Poite didn't apply the laws.

YET,

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/feb/27/world-rugby-backs-referee-england-italy-ruck

World Rugby backs referee Poite over England v Italy ruck debate

World Rugby has given its backing to the referee Romain Poite after Eddie Jones criticised the Frenchman for his performance during England’s Six Nations victory against Italy on Sunday.
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and see how World Rugby has quoted the law,

World Rugby’s view, however, is that the law was officiated correctly by Poite. The law states that a ruck is formed “when one or more players from each team, who are on their feet, close around the ball on the ground”. If no ruck is formed then there is no offside line.
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What, no physical contact?
 
Only caught the last 20 minutes but I can't remember when last I've seen a Welsh team defend their line with such passion and ferocity. Ireland resorting to kicks to try make something happen. Congrats to them on what seems a deserved win!
 
I see Italy is pulling their non-ruck engagement tactic against the French. Not working as well as it did against the English as the French clearly prepared, it is keeping the score down.

ITA 11 HT 16 FRA
 
Fulcrum29 said:
I see Italy is pulling their non-ruck engagement tactic against the French. Not working as well as it did against the English as the French clearly prepared, it is keeping the score down.

ITA 11 HT 16 FRA
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I'm stuck at work and not watching, but I hope France give them a massive PK in the second half so they can nip this schit in the bud.

I was reading an article this morning about the England Scotland game coming up and it even said that Scotland might try the tactic once or twice to get into the English heads. I truly hope not. Scotland need to concentrate on their own game and not try to negate England with BS tactics.
 
Spizz said:
I'm stuck at work and not watching, but I hope France give them a massive PK in the second half so they can nip this schit in the bud.

I was reading an article this morning about the England Scotland game coming up and it even said that Scotland might try the tactic once or twice to get into the English heads. I truly hope not. Scotland need to concentrate on their own game and not try to negate England with BS tactics.
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I agree with you, it is still legal within the rugby laws. England will do the same, they did it to Italy in the closing 20min when the players started realisation that the best counter is to return the medicine.

The French is preying on the gaps made the Italians leaving their line. They are entrusting Serin to step into those and it is winning them metres. It still isn’t rugby when the scrummie cannot pass the ball.
 
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