Refusing Infinitecall Service Is Illegal

Tibby Dude is on my ignore list so he will no longer be a problem for me.

ScrnScrm, just because Telkom states that they have the right to withdraw a service and not allow new subscribers does not mean that they actually do have this right. As far as I understand, this is classified as discrimination. I am 98% sure of this.

I have not received any kind of notification from Telkom about them withdrawing Infinitcall. Telkom is perfectly able to send me a bill every month, but they seem to find it very difficult when it comes to informing customers about price changes etc. It could be that Telkom was revising Infinitcall before I got it, in which case I feel it would only have been fair to tell me apon subscrining to the service that it was under review.
 
Debbie2 said:
Tibby Dude is on my ignore list so he will no longer be a problem for me.

ScrnScrm, just because Telkom states that they have the right to withdraw a service and not allow new subscribers does not mean that they actually do have this right. As far as I understand, this is classified as discrimination. I am 98% sure of this.

I have not received any kind of notification from Telkom about them withdrawing Infinitcall. Telkom is perfectly able to send me a bill every month, but they seem to find it very difficult when it comes to informing customers about price changes etc. It could be that Telkom was revising Infinitcall before I got it, in which case I feel it would only have been fair to tell me apon subscrining to the service that it was under review.

Debbie I am unsure how much you spend on Telkom a month... but I also used to get angry with em because of many of there issues. Usually its there service levels and 'immoral' monoloptic attitude that would drive me around the bend as it is you. I know as an individual or even as a group there is very little one can do this company.

I found a solution... just dont use them. I only use a cell phone and for inet I use iBurst. and wether telkom get money from me because of the c-phone or inet is irrelevant to me its that I dont have to deal with them EVER and they getting less money from me anyway.

I do admire what Mad is doing with hellkom and I admire what you are doing but I think Telkom are just so freaking rich these days that even Goverment finds it hard to fight the monster.

Kill the monster by not feeding it... or feeding it as little as possible.
 
vowthorn said:
I found a solution... just dont use them.

Hey Vowthorn,

Like you, and no doubt millions, my issues with Telkom go way beyond InfinitCall. I feel particularly strongly about the apparent abandonment of the goals of the Telecoms Act - an Act that took 2 years to draw up, and was so highly praised internationally because of the way in which it was drawn up. Now of course the DoC needs to accept a lot of responsibility for this....<I'm rambling>.

To get back to my point - I am a student. I need the internet so that I can always do my best. I cannot afford anything other than dialup. I wish I could avoid Telkom, but I can't. If I give up my Telkom line, then I give up being the best student I can be.

The fact that I am so dependent on them makes me angrier, and even more determined to win small victories against them.
 
Debbie2 said:
ScrnScrm, just because Telkom states that they have the right to withdraw a service and not allow new subscribers does not mean that they actually do have this right. .

"Telkom reserves the right to amend the conditions from time to time, subject to the provisions of Telkom's PSTS licence"

So what is this then ... still 98% right ??? :)
 
"Telkom reserves the right to amend the conditions from time to time, subject to the provisions of Telkom's PSTS licence"
Example: If I were to write a contract stating that I have the right to kill someone, does that make it legal? I think not.

Same as with any other contract like an employment contract having to be in line with the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, all telkom contracts have to be in line with certain acts such as the communications act. Debbie I'm sure will be able to tell you exactly which ones ;)

So sure, Telkom are allowed to state they reserve the right to change conditions, but if these are not in line with laws and regulations, they actually become NULL and VOID. Even if their PSTS licence were to allow this, which I doubt, they still have to conform to all the other legal requirements.
 
PS: So telkom could reserve the right to screw the public over, but that doesn't mean people can't decide to do something about it :P
 
quik said:
PS: So telkom could reserve the right to screw the public over, but that doesn't mean people can't decide to do something about it :P

It took this post for you to get that. I could have told you this for years
 
quik said:
So sure, Telkom are allowed to state they reserve the right to change conditions, but if these are not in line with laws and regulations, they actually become NULL and VOID.

Correct but if Debbie2 feels she has a case then she must report it to ICASA who can take the matter further.

I just find that the endless saying of Telkom is doing illegal stuff on the forum without any shred of evidence or legal opinion to back it up is just blowing a WHOLE LOT of hot air which is a waste of time.
 
ic said:
It takes time to investigate & gather evidence, what Debbie2 is doing is asking for some help from forumites in investigating & making a case. You cannot expect to preside over an investigation & declare a verdict when the case hasn't even gone to court yet...

And what case would that be ???.

There will be a lot of venting of spleens around here but as usual nothing will happen.

Don't you think that ICASA and esp the ISPSA would be on top of Telkom like a pack of ravenous wolves in court if there was any hint of illegal actions at Telkom ???.

If the "illegal activity" is so obvious to Debbie2 and her supporters by merely looking at laws googled on the internet then does it mean that ICASA and ISPSA employ stupid lawyers ???.

Really ???.

I really can't believe how some of you fall for any vague conspiracy mutterings about Telkom on this forum and don't sit don't to think if it actually makes any sort of common sense.
 
Tibby,

Don't be so eager to defend Telkom. It will not be the first Telco to flirt with unethical business practices and it will not be the last. You are going on as if this kind of thing has never happened. I am afraid if you use the dreaded Google (which can be damn handy if you know how to sift the gold from the crap) you will find some startling evidence to the contrary. If you don't like Googling, go to the library. It might take a little longer though...

Regards,
Antowan
 
Debbie2 said:
To get back to my point - I am a student. I need the internet so that I can always do my best. I cannot afford anything other than dialup. I wish I could avoid Telkom, but I can't. If I give up my Telkom line, then I give up being the best student I can be.

The fact that I am so dependent on them makes me angrier, and even more determined to win small victories against them.

understood.... failed to realise you were a student... but I was once there... its great inspiration to earn money (not too use telkom). Well goodluck in your endevour... cuz Telkom need a beating soon!
 
Its a shame that when tibby.dude is quoted it is not hidden for me.

Regarding Telkom's illegal activities:

1) Telkom was found guilty (in February 2004) by the Competition Commission of abusing their monopoly position. The Competition Commission was so disturbed by Telkom's blatant flouting of the law that they recommended the maximum penalty be imposed on Telkom - Telkom was fined 10% of turnover, or about 3 BILLLION Rand. Telkom continues to refuse to pay up, they continue to deny these charges, and have labelled the Competition Commission's findings "just an opinion". Where is the respect for the law, I ask you?

2) I can mention a number of personal experiences with Telkom where they have behaved illegally. For example, my repeated requests for a copy of the STD Terms and Conditions were met with blatant lies. Babsie Vermaak of Telkom continued to tell me that "no such contract exists", despite me making myself VERY clear on what is was that I wanted. Telkom behaved illegally not only in denying the existence of a contract to which I am legally entitled, but also in refusing to furbish me with one for 6 months.

3) I have personally witnessed an application for a telephone lines rejected by Telkom because the applicant, on the abridged Terms and Conditions, included the following words: "I accept these T&C subject to my rights as contained in the Bill of Rights of the South African Constitution". This is illegal behaviour on Telkom's part. Telkom's contract should automatically not conflict with the constitution. In fact, it is illegal to for any contract to contain provisions which require one to sign away any rights contained within the Bill of Rights. This does not mean that Telkom's Std Terms and Conditions require one to sign away fundamental rights. But I question why Telkom would reject any agreement that reemphasised one's personal constitutional rights. Additionally, since the applicant was simply reemphasising that the contract was subject to the highest law in the land (i.e. the Constitution), Telkom had NO legal grounds on which to refuse service provsision to this applicant. Again, this is an example of illegal behavoir on Telkom's part.

4) The powers that be at Telkom continue to tell me that my phone line is in perfect working order. Not so long ago, I came home to find a Telkom technician working on the phone lines box that serves my complex exclusively. I asked him about his opinion of the state of the telephone lines. He told me that they were in a very poor state, and there was so much dirt on the lines that it is affecting line quality. Why, I ask, are the powers that be at Telkom lying to me? The pattern of illegal bahaviour is again emphasised.

5) Why will Telkom not allow me to accompany a techinician to officially inspect the lines? Why do I have to ask for "off-the-record" reports from Telkom technicians, whose opinions cannot be used in a court of law since I have undertaken to keep these techinicians anonymous?

I could go on and on about the various ways in which Telkom behave illegally. In fact, when I went to see the local branch supervisor on Wednesday this week, he admitted to me that Telkom representatives often deliberately mislead consumers and give out blatantly incoorect information. He further admitted that there were, indeed, a lot of illegal activities going on within Telkom. I have two other witnesses to this admission.

If a mid-level manager at Telkom is admitting to illegal practices by Telkom, then you can bet your life that the extent of Telkom's illegal practices extends far beyond what we know to be true.

Debbie2

Edit: The watchdogs of the industry fail to reply to my complaints about Telkom. I have lodged several complaints with ICASA about Telkom, to no reply or even acknowledgement that my complainst have been received.

I also filled out an official form lodging a complaint with the Competition Commission regarding Telkom's violations of the Competition Act. This was several weeks ago. I still have had no response from the Competition Commission.

The so-called "watchdogs" to which we are entitled, by law, to lodge complaints with and who are required, by law, to investigate our complaints do not even respond to complaints. What are we to do? Must we take ICASA and the Comp Comm to court to force them to force Telkom to behave legally????
 
Last edited:
Debbie2 said:
Its a shame that when tibby.dude is quoted it is not hidden for me.

Well ain't life a bitch :).

Debbie2 said:
Where is the respect for the law, I ask you?

Never heard of due process and the appeal court ???.

Like you and me and the pharmacists , Telkom can fight this all the way to the constitutional court if they wanted to.

We might not like it that Telkom can tweak the nose of ICASA but that is how our law and democracy works.

Debbie2 said:
He further admitted that there were, indeed, a lot of illegal activities going on within Telkom. I have two other witnesses to this admission.

Do you have an affidavit to this effect ???.
 
I think that tibby.dude is adopting a conservative approach to the situation, rather than bowing to sensationalism.

Telkom offered a service, Telkom removed a service... perfectly fine (morally maybe not). Discrimination? Telkom wants the service gone, so surely any lawsuit would take away all public accountability for scrapping the service entirely... wouldn't want to appear discriminatory, so shut everyone off! ..."Our hands were tied"...

Everybody or nobody?... I think they'll choose nobody! (especially with VOIP as a rising star in SA)
 
Debbie2 said:
3) I have personally witnessed an application for a telephone lines rejected by Telkom because the applicant, on the abridged Terms and Conditions, included the following words: "I accept these T&C subject to my rights as contained in the Bill of Rights of the South African Constitution".

I personally demand Afrikaans contracts whenever I'm forced to sign something like that.

When the other party does insist in me signing an english contract, I add a phrase like "Hierdie ooreenkoms is geteken op aandrang van die ander party. Die ooreenkoms in nie in my amptelike taal van voorkeur nie, en ek ontken dat ek die nodige kennis het om die bepalings in hierdie ooreekoms vervat na behore te verstaan of begryp." This is in line with the Bill of Rights.

Telkom has not yet rejected one of these...

Actually, a bank the other day managed to translate a 4-pager in less than 5 minutes.

I've never had anybody not wanting my business yet inspite of such a clause.

I guess that too few people care about their rights.

(Such phrases apparently creates a situation where the other party has to perform, but has to prove that "I" correctly understood every word of the english legalese when I signed before he can enforce the rest of the agreement. I've not used it yet, but it puts "me" in a legally better position than the other side to demand performance before I pay.)
 
Last edited:
VQuest said:
tibby.dude, Debbie has you on her ignore list, she can't see your questions.

It is her choice to ignore criticism but other people on the forum will see it and think twice about her rather sensationalist claims i.e the hearsay she is posting here about what some Telkom manager "allegedly" said to her vs having a rock solid sworn affidavit from these people that can withstand scrunity by Telkom's lawyers.
 
I have taken the dude off my ignore list to read his comments.

What I find especially interesting is that he does not say, "Oh, you know what, you're right in some respects. Telkom has been found guilty of illegal behaviour by the Comp Comm". Instead, he nitpicks in an attempt to push me down and prove his superior all-knowingness.

Instead of saying, "hey, have you gotten an affidavit about what the supervisor said?", he says "Do you have an affidavit to this effect ???." implying rhetorically that I MUST be lying.

In fact, I asked the first witness earlier today whether he would be willing to sign an affidavit about what was said in that room. He agreed. I have not yet contacted the second witness, but I have his number and will be doing so shortly.

Tibbi.dude, bro, continue attacking me and my methodologies and my beliefs about Telkom. You embody the mindset of Telkom, and in this way you are useful to me in a 'mock trial' kinda of way. By demanding that I spell out every detail for you, you make me stronger and better prepared to take on the real monster.
 
Tibby, the girl has got a point. You have to admit.

Perhaps its not what you are saying Tibby, but how you are saying it. Perhaps it is just a case of the guys not know how to say things around women. I know I suffer terrible foot in mouth disease around women. Assuming Tibby is indeed a guy.

;)

Regards
Antowan
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X