Republicans at it again

[w1z4rd]

Regrettably you seem to be inferring meanings that aren't in my reply.

I certainly agree that all should have access to healthcare, and that being a caring society is a good thing.

But that doesn't mean I think it should be done by the State. On the contrary, I think Americans should avoid State-driven healthcare like the plague. As should we.

So whilst I share the aim of getting healthcare for all, and fostering a good, caring society that defends and protects all, including and even especially the weak, I also think that socialised medicine is exactly the opposite of what America needs. Obama's Plan will be a disaster, and I am implacably opposed to it. Of course he means well, but then so did Hitler and Stalin and Mao. History is replete with well-intentioned but profoundly misconceived projects driven by people with grandiose misconceptions of themselves. Obama is in that mold. But as we know, good intentions just aren't good enough. I can't see him lasting more than a single term. Every day he's in office America takes a step closer to decay and tyranny.

(BTW, I don't think the modern Republicans can do any better.)

I ask what you think the solution is.. and you talk about Hitler? We have public government run healthcare in South Africa and it doesnt involve Hitler I also didnt notice it happening in Canada or Sweden... or Britain.

If not by the government then how? We have to do it, and if you dont want public office doing it whats the best solution then? Cause one way or another people need public healthcare and if you are against this one surely you have a better solution than chatting about Hitler?

 

[Aeron]

You see arthur, wizard is one of those who knows he will never achieve stardom or fame or become very rich. So he simply loves the idea of taking from the rich and giving to the poor, especially in a country where he would benefit from it. In all probability, he doesn't have or want children, so his views are primarily based in the short term, focused around himself. He's made his peace with life and couldn't give a rat's ass if the world combusted a moment after his death. I guess that's his entitled opinion. No offense wiz, but not only is that my informed opinion, it's also the frequency at which your propoganda broadcasting is operating.

Hasn't Obama recently announced that the idea of state healthcare (one of things that got him elected by the illiterate hicks and rats) is actually a really bad one and that he's falling back on what he said? Obama isn't as dumb as the people that voted for him. He knows what he said during his erection campaign could not possibly be sustainable. He just got himself elected on lies and deceit (skilled politician and all that).

As for healthcare, how about that Adrian Rogers quote? Every time someone gets something he doesn't deserve, someone else has to work for something he doesn't get.

Capitalism is over. Within five to ten years, America will have proceeded through the initial stages of "socializing". Within twenty, they will be as socialist as Germany is today, if not more. Health care will follow.

That's if the world doesn't end in 2012

 

[krycor]

I think socialistphobia is dumb. Sorry but its completely true because the 'capitalistic' model works fine for business yes(well except when you gonna lose so your arch enemy and then oh its perfectly fine to socialize for a bit ), you can make a nice profit BUT when you do this to an essential service you ALWAYS get the short end of the stick. WHY? because they out there to make profit and no other country in the world should understand this best than the US, SA too. Our companies have not been on their best behaviour in their short lived existence. American ones well.. how many times haven't there been articles of companies profiteering at the expense of environment, poor services, service agreements with fine print abuse and even direct human life.

In SA, national interests in healthcare has never ever been completely removed. Last i checked the state has major subsidies in tertiary education in a few sectors. If you think your university fees are covering the true 'cost' then you in for shock that you've been getting a funded socialist eduction.

Btw if i read the commentary on the bill they pushing for it doesn't mean the state will be taking care of you. they will just be an accessible insurance cover you may opt for. may.. because people want choice of paying more for a 'liberated choice' or none at all(why i dunno).

So next time you sitting there wondering how the heck you going to make the med. insurance bill for i dunno, gunshot or just future getting old post retirement(which will happen when healthcare is more accessible) its something to think about. That.. and US life expectancy is ranking in at 42.. UK 36.. Canada 8! (i.e. canadians outlive americans)

 

[w1z4rd]

You see arthur, wizard is one of those who knows he will never achieve stardom or fame or become very rich. So he simply loves the idea of taking from the rich and giving to the poor, especially in a country where he would benefit from it. In all probability, he doesn't have or want children, so his views are primarily based in the short term, focused around himself. He's made his peace with life and couldn't give a rat's ass if the world combusted a moment after his death. I guess that's his entitled opinion. No offense wiz, but not only is that my informed opinion, it's also the frequency at which your propoganda broadcasting is operating.

Dude.. are you mentally retarded? Seriously now? Everything you said was a load of bull.

I LIVE in a country where I have public health care and while I dont use it as I have medical aid... I dont mind my tax money helping out those who need care. Just like when I donate blood... I dont care who it goes to as long as it helps someone.

Having a 6 yr olf son I am very proud of and with a fiance who is a doctor who I intend marrying soon. I dont know how you could have screwed up your misconceptions of me any more.

I actually think long term and way beyond me.

You basically got everything wrong.. but at least people now know that value of your (very wrong) "opinion". You just trolled me and made up ****. Way to go "hero". Does it make you feel more manly or something when you lie about other people? Do you completely lack intellectual substance and ability that you feel you need to contantly attack my character (playing the man with ad hominon attacks) and lie about me? Cause you are coming across as a liar and desperate . Way to go for setting an example.

 

[Alan]

how many times haven't there been articles of companies profiteering at the expense of environment, poor services, service agreements with fine print abuse and even direct human life.

and governments don't?

Canada 8! (i.e. canadians outlive americans)

Canada has 1/10 the population of the U.S

Hmm more of these rabid Christian Republicans hey Wiz

The people who showed up at the Obama rally in Arizona yesterday with semi-automatic rifles are part of a hate group called “4409,” a bugeyed insane gang of paleo-libertarian Ron Paul supporters who believe in every conspiracy theory under the sun. They’re 9/11 Truthers, moon landing hoaxers, anti-vaccination kooks, Alex Jones fans — name a conspiracy theory, they believe it.

Their website contains advertisements for white supremacist militias and Rand Paul (son of Ron Paul). I won’t link directly to these kinds of extremist hate sites, but here’s Google’s cache of the page where they posted video of their jackass stunt: 4409 — Brother carries AR-15 Rifle at Obamabot Rally.

Notice in the video clip of their headquarters (probably somebody’s garage), the big sign on the wall that says "Vaccines = Poison."

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/34475_The_Freaks_Behind_the_Arizona_Gun_Stunt

 

[grayston]

and governments don't? [profiteer from sick people like profit organisations are known to do]

Why should they? What does a government have to gain from denying someone healthcare, apart from the disgust of its voters?

Canada has 1/10 the population of the U.S

...therefore less people die there? Someone's been watching the Republican FUD-brigade!

 

[Alan]

Why should they? What does a government have to gain from denying someone healthcare, apart from the disgust of its voters?

Ask the ANC?

As for disgust from their voters. Last time I checked U.S voters weren't in favour of "socialised healthcare".

Governments don't profiteer lol. Good old naive quasi commie logic just won't die off already

...therefore less people die there? Someone's been watching the Republican FUD-brigade!

No because there's a large difference between funding the healthcare of a small isolated country than a mega diverse country like the U.S. But I guess that's beyond you.

 

[d0b33]

I ask what you think the solution is.. and you talk about Hitler?

Republicans have now officially reached Godwin's level...

Conservatives have strenuously denied that there is any anti-Semitism on display by anti-health reform protesters at town hall meetings nationwide — despite all the evidence to the contrary. Last week, Las Vegas radio station KDWN AM720 sponsored a “contentious” town hall, emceed by conservative morning show host Heidi Harris. At the event, local news stations were interviewing an Israeli man who was praising the “fantastic” “national health care” in Israel. During his remarks, a woman yelled out, “Heil Hitler!” The man stopped, became visibly upset, and exclaimed, “Did you hear this? She say to a Jew, ‘Heil Hitler’! Hear? I’m a Jew! You’re telling me, ‘Heil Hitler’? Shame of you!” After he angrily confronts her, the woman mocks him by making a crying sound to imply he is a whining baby.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/18/hitler-israel/

 

[w1z4rd]

Republicans have now officially reached Godwin's level...


http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/18/hitler-israel/

Its Republican.. its infected.

 

[Alan]

You've got so pathetic you're cherry picking individuals. So sad

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

You've got so pathetic you're cherry picking individuals. So sad

Nothing can help people who have the leftie-liberal disease so don't worry. Remember when he made that remark in the other thread (in H&R) by playing the race-card

 

[Alan]

Well lets not succumb and sink to their level. Desperately clinging straws by knit picking individual remarks of a few nutters who they can't even prove are Republican. Clearly they have no leg to stand on and hence the degradation to snide trolling.

 

[grayston]

Oh, Alan. Every example of Republican assholianism will be seen as cherry-picking by you.

But don't worry! The loonies on the far left are mad too. I just can't think of any current examples of them trying to deny sick people healthcare...

 

[Arthur]

Hello Wizard

Canada's health care system is not a such a marvellous modern model. It compares poorly with many, as this report amply shows (news article includes link to official report). Canada ranks 23rd out of 30 countries surveyed in the Euro-Canadian Health Consumer Index (ECHCI) report card issued last year.

Some quotes:

Nowhere is this more apparent than with regard to waiting times. It is not news that waits for diagnosis and treatment are unacceptably long in Canada. It is sobering, however, to find out that we finish at the very bottom of the index in this area. Changing to a performance-based pay system would ease waiting times considerably.

Apart from the few bright spots such as heart attack mortality and cataract surgery, Canada's performance falls consistently between poor and adequate, as its rank of 23rd out of 30 implies. In fact, all of the countries that Canada outperforms are rehabilitated former east bloc states.

The index includes a bang-for-the-buck metric, which assesses each country's performance in the context of how much each country spends on health care per capita. From this perspective, Canada falls to the very bottom, getting the least value for money of all 30 countries analyzed.

If Canada's health care system was so good, why do tens of thousands of Canadians every year seek medical care outside Canada? After all, it's free in Canada, and they have to pay elsewhere.

And those unfortunate Canadians who have to use their state system often get second-rate treatment (August 2009).

Britain doesn't do too well either (and this is borne out by my own experience as an NHS 'customer'): The NHS Puts the Patient Last.

For a list of recent articles in similar vein on the National Center for Policy Analysis website, go here.

Economist Thomas Sowell (incidentally a Black man, which is beside the point, but it does rather defuse 'racism' charges from socialistas) has an in-depth book on why socialised medicine is a disaster. For a recent quick sound-bite in the Dallas News, you can read his Why universal health care is a terrible idea.

There are many misconceptions about America in relation to Europe-style social care, education, etc. One reason is most people only cite state-provided benefits and don't look at the overall reality. For a useful perspective on how America fairs very much better in real-life metrics, get a taste from Peter Baldwin's recent article in Prospect Magazine: A narrower Atlantic - Despite America's move to the left under Obama, it's still assumed that Europe and America are fundamentally different—in their economies, societies and values. But this is a myth.

Now I have to get back to work (to pay for my own and family's health care, and also a thousand others who get it via the State).

 

[grayston]

Britain doesn't do too well either (and this is borne out by my own experience as an NHS 'customer'): The NHS Puts the Patient Last.

NHS has put into practice the 10 Commandments of Business Failure as drawn up by Donald Keough, past president and former CEO of Coca-Cola.

What a lucky thing that healthcare isn't supposed to make a profit!

Oh, the Brits are such whingers. They have a national health system in France too. It's pretty good -- so good, in fact, that French people get sick when they go overseas because they can't get their special meds any more!

Wouldn't it be fantastic if there was some similar way of discouraging Americans from leaving America? ;-)

Economist Thomas Sowell (incidentally a Black man, which is beside the point, but it does rather defuse 'racism' charges from socialistas) has an in-depth book on why socialised medicine is a disaster. For a recent quick sound-bite in the Dallas News, you can read his Why universal health care is a terrible idea.

Basically, he argues that a national healthcare system would make health insurance companies increase their premiums! Shock! Horror! How lucky that there's an alternative to health insurance in the form of a national healthcare system!

Guys ... it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Or arguing with a creationist. Or an ANC member. Oppose national health care systems if you must, but at least come up with a reason for doing so.

 

[Aeron]

Like Alan said, wizard uses extreme examples of republicans and their "greed" or "stupidty" (all the while forgetting that Oprah watchers and HEAT readers elected Obama) to brush the entire party as redneck hicks. This is biased and petty. I'll receive more hatemail because of saying that.

I have simply stopped responding to him in the first person. And I know I'm not the only one. I really commend Arthur for the fact that he is decent enough to keep responding to wizard with unbiased posts that prove him wrong.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1738422/white_house_back_down_from_governmentrun_healthcare/

http://www.thefoxnation.com/preside...ctory-obama-backing-down-govt-run-health-care

Wow, Obama really is living up to his promises! Looks like the Democrats aren't so wonderful after all. Doing the smart thing: Following Bush's policies.

But those two sources will likely be refuted by the witch hunters as some conspiracy site.

 

[Alan]

Oh, Alan. Every example of Republican assholianism will be seen as cherry-picking by you.

By all means post a link to mass protests by Republicans. :erm:

But don't worry! The loonies on the far left are mad too. I just can't think of any current examples of them trying to deny sick people healthcare...

Ever heard of 'Blue dog democrats'? But yeah a few right wing nutters get you in a tiz but thousands of loony left wing supporters of mass murder doesn't.

 

[w1z4rd]

Hello Wizard

Canada's health care system is not a such a marvellous modern model. It compares poorly with many, as this report amply shows (news article includes link to official report). Canada ranks 23rd out of 30 countries surveyed in the Euro-Canadian Health Consumer Index (ECHCI) report card issued last year.

Some quotes:



If Canada's health care system was so good, why do tens of thousands of Canadians every year seek medical care outside Canada? After all, it's free in Canada, and they have to pay elsewhere.

And those unfortunate Canadians who have to use their state system often get second-rate treatment (August 2009).

Britain doesn't do too well either (and this is borne out by my own experience as an NHS 'customer'): The NHS Puts the Patient Last.

For a list of recent articles in similar vein on the National Center for Policy Analysis website, go here.

Economist Thomas Sowell (incidentally a Black man, which is beside the point, but it does rather defuse 'racism' charges from socialistas) has an in-depth book on why socialised medicine is a disaster. For a recent quick sound-bite in the Dallas News, you can read his Why universal health care is a terrible idea.

There are many misconceptions about America in relation to Europe-style social care, education, etc. One reason is most people only cite state-provided benefits and don't look at the overall reality. For a useful perspective on how America fairs very much better in real-life metrics, get a taste from Peter Baldwin's recent article in Prospect Magazine: A narrower Atlantic - Despite America's move to the left under Obama, it's still assumed that Europe and America are fundamentally different—in their economies, societies and values. But this is a myth.

Now I have to get back to work (to pay for my own and family's health care, and also a thousand others who get it via the State).

Candians cant get private health care as well? Not saying you said that but you make it seem thats the only option there.

I liked your report.. America couldnt be compared in it cause its public healthcare system is worse than an African countries public healthcare system.

Austrians, the French and the Dutch enjoy better and more accessible health care than we do and at a lower per capita cost.

There some more countries from your report with good health systems... why not have a go at them as well?

Its funny you use Canadians having to get healthcare from another country.. since that happens a lot in just about every country. Its even more ironic when Americans have to go to Cuba to get the medical support their own country wont give them.

Its even more ironic when you contemplate the mud pond that is a Republicans mind. Theyre more than happy to go to war, have the world largest budget so they can kill people from other countries better.. but cant take a tiny sliver of that money (say around 1%), and use it to heal their own people.

Im sorry, while the Canadian healthcare system might not be perfect.. its there. And more Canadians have access to medical resources than what Americans have access to theirs.

Given a choice to live in America or Canada.. Ill take Canada over and over and over again. So would most South Africans I know actually. Very few South Africans I know wanna move to America.

I understand what ure trying to say.. but I dont agree with it. To me people are more important than profits, and to me, a public medical system is essential to the social health of a society.

Sure.. let there be private healthcare for those who can afford it and want it. I have no problem with that .. but some kinda balance needs to happen.

When I speak to people like you I realize how proudly South African I am.. and even though our government sucks.. Americas one sucks more.

I like the African concept of Ubuntu (people for people).. I dont like the "Sell my mom" attitude of American Republicans.

 

[grayston]

By all means post a link to mass protests by Republicans. :erm:

They don't seem to be organised enough for that. Possibly because it might cost them money they'll never see again.

Ever heard of 'Blue dog democrats'?

No.

Is that because I read the MainStreamMedia(tm), or because they're too insignificant to make any impact?

But yeah a few right wing nutters get you in a tiz but thousands of loony left wing supporters of mass murder doesn't.

Where are these thousands of loonie leftwingers and what mass murder do they support?

Oh wait ... you're talking about terrorists, aren't you!

You realise that's just a Reductio ad Hitlerum argument, right?

 

[Alan]

When I speak to people like you I realize how proudly South African I am.. and even though our government sucks.. Americas one sucks more.

Yes aids denialism is definitely preferable. So you'd rather end up in one of our state run hospitals than an American hospital after an accident . But yeah that's why everybody moves to Canada over the U.S :erm: