Rick Perry

Let people do what they want to do. If 8 out of 10 people are A, B can step outside if they want to.

Thats what happens, or used to happen in this country when i was in school. It isn't a big deal really and works very well. B love it, because they get to chill outside playing with their phones while the other poor sods have to sing stuff.
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I remember that from my school days as well, but it definitely created an us and them - in my days it was just the jewish kids who ' stepped outside '.

Now we have jews, christians, rastas, hindus, muslims etc all going to the same school.

Also if I was jewish I would quite likely demand my turn to worship while all the non-jews had their turn to step outside.
 
Randhir said:
If that's a requirement of a religion? To leave every hour/two hours?

Rather ban all of it from schools. Pray on your own time. Schools are for education, not religion.
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Its not - thus no issue.
 
daveza said:
I remember that from my school days as well, but it definitely created an us and them - in my days it was just the jewish kids who ' stepped outside '.

Now we have jews, christians, rastas, hindus, muslims etc all going to the same school.

Also if I was jewish I would quite likely demand my turn to worship while all the non-jews had their turn to step outside.
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Its a numbers game. If i go to a school which is 80% muslim i would consider it courteous of me to rather step out than demand everyone stop what they doing completely. Its called tolerance.

Its only a problem if the school demands that all kids attend.

And this notion that its an all day thing just isn't true. Its something which only happens once or twice a week at assembly - as you yourself know.
 
I imagine it's also an issue of what is actually taught in schools - some of which would have to be abandoned if it went against anyone's religious beliefs.

So if no allowance is made for religious convictions in the lessons it then cannot make allowance for the religious worship of only one religion.
 
You guys are mad. No prayer in public schools, period. The reasons for this should be patently obvious? :erm:
 
daveza said:
I imagine it's also an issue of what is actually taught in schools - some of which would have to be abandoned if it went against anyone's religious beliefs.

So if no allowance is made for religious convictions in the lessons it then cannot make allowance for the religious worship of only one religion.
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In the real world all these issue are easily debated and managed - its entirely doable and has worked just fine up to this point.

If we are honest though, it all comes down to the idea of no religion in school conveniently lining up with the beliefs of the irreligious. It comes down to a minority trying to impose their beliefs on a majority which is rather amusing when their argument basically states that its wrong for a group to impose their beliefs on others.

Let the numbers play out. If a school is 50% muslim and 50% christian it would be different to a 85/15 school.
 
Yup. If you want to in your own private capacity say a quick prayer for yourself then go for it but if you want official recognition of prayer by a government institution then hell no.

Religion must always remain separate from government. Stop doing that and we're back to stonings and druids being recognised as valid medical practitioners equivalent to doctors. Nope.
 
copacetic said:
You guys are mad. No prayer in public schools, period. The reasons for this should be patently obvious? :erm:
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Convenient for you, but not fine for those who have these beliefs. A few minutes a couple times a week will hurt no one. Its called tolerance.
 
Zyzzyva said:
In the real world all these issue are easily debated and managed - its entirely doable and has worked just fine up to this point.
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You're assuming the people making the decision aren't religion nutjobs that will have their children being taught that the planet was shat out by a giant purple squirrel.


If we are honest though, it all comes down to the idea of no religion in school conveniently lining up with the beliefs of the irreligious. It comes down to a minority trying to impose their beliefs on a majority which is rather amusing when their argument basically states that its wrong for a group to impose their beliefs on others.
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No it comes down to not creating any rules that enforce behaviour along religious lines. That basically equates to forcing your religion into the lives of those that don't practice it. That is an infringement on human rights.


Let the numbers play out. If a school is 50% muslim and 50% christian it would be different to a 85/15 school.
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No it is exactly the same.
 
porchrat said:
Yup. If you want to in your own private capacity say a quick prayer for yourself then go for it but if you want official recognition of prayer by a government institution then hell no.

Religion must always remain separate from government. Stop doing that and we're back to stonings and druids being recognised as valid medical practitioners equivalent to doctors. Nope.
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Nobody is saying the government should demand pray in all school, they just shouldn't demand no prayer in schools. Forcing either is wrong. Let each school within each community decide for themselves.
 
Zyzzyva said:
Convenient for you, but not fine for those who have these beliefs. A few minutes a couple times a week will hurt no one. Its called tolerance.
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What about the few minutes made available for the buddhists, the Muslims, the Rastafarians, the shintoists etc. What about the recognition of religious holidays? You want to recognise them all now? You must now that you have acknowledged the importance of religion in school life.

It takes just a few minutes of thinking about it to come up with a whole lot of ways that this sort of thing could bring what is currently an entirely equal system to it's knees attempting to keep up with the demands of every religious group out there.
 
porchrat said:
You're assuming the people making the decision aren't religion nutjobs that will have their children being taught that the planet was shat out by a giant purple squirrel.



No it comes down to not creating any rules that enforce behaviour along religious lines. That basically equates to forcing your religion into the lives of those that don't practice it. That is an infringement on human rights.



No it is exactly the same.
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Making up an extreme hardly proves your point. Nothing is imposed on anyone when the few who disagree are allowed to walk out for a few minutes.
 
A few minutes a couple times a week will hurt no one. Its called tolerance.
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The religious right are far from tolerant.

I can't see them allowing the atheists to have a special time for proclaiming there is no god.
 
porchrat said:
What about the few minutes made available for the buddhists, the Muslims, the Rastafarians, the shintoists etc. What about the recognition of religious holidays? You want to recognise them all now? You must now that you have acknowledged the importance of religion in school life.

It takes just a few minutes of thinking about it to come up with a whole lot of ways that this sort of thing could bring what is currently an entirely equal system to it's knees attempting to keep up with the demands of every religious group out there.
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Once again you are making up extreme scenarios which don't exist in reality.
 
Zyzzyva said:
Nobody is saying the government should demand pray in all school, they just shouldn't demand no prayer in schools.
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Who demands no prayer in schools? As far as I understand it you're welcome to pray in your own personal capacity, just no officially recognised prayer participated in by the school is all. The school must at all times remain irreligious in order to treat everyone equally regardless of religion.


Forcing either is wrong.
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Forcing is wrong I agree.


Let each school within each community decide for themselves.
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In private schools this is exactly what happens. Governments cannot recognise religion. It is obvious why this can't happen. Wake up.
 
daveza said:
The religious right are far from tolerant.

I can't see them allowing the atheists to have a special time for proclaiming there is no god.
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So you don't get your way, so no one must have theirs?
 
Zyzzyva said:
Once again you are making up extreme scenarios which don't exist in reality.
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Who are you to say these scenarios don't exist in reality? :confused:

Have you seen the religious makeup of the US? All those religions are present.

It is possible that this situation could exist. What is your proposed system going to do to handle it?
 
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